Windows 7 Media Center

[Brent]

Originally Posted by tedson

...but then you end up where I am, with SageMC specific bugs and Sage isn't going to fix them and the creator of MC may or may not fix them.

Which bugs in SageMC in particular?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by tedson

If Windows 7 has the features of vista plus HD-PVR support I will be buying a couple of Xboxs and switching. The UI is better hands down. With plug-ins you can do better than a video-ts directory you can mount isos.

On Extenders? (Cause that's all I plan on using).

The photo slide show is cleaner (better transitions which I know is stupid but the wife loves them) the visualizations for music are better (as in there are some.) It just feels slicker.

I don't doubt it. From time to time I seriously look into switching, there's lots of nice stuff there. But every time I do, I run into showstopping missing features. They've fixed the guide thing (which I forgot about), but their extenders are just way too limited (I'm not converting my DVDs to WMV or MPG to use them on extenders).

I don't know why Sage doesn't do whatever it takes to acquire the rights to SageMC and make it a first class citizen and the default UI. They have to know that 90% of the people that ever look at Sage think its UI blows (and hence use SageMC.)

Man I hope not, I really don't like SageMC, maybe I could get it to work for me, but it's just too much work to get it there. But I do hope Sage does something to the UI/experience in Sage 7, if for no other reason than to quiet the endless "it's UI blows" chorus

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

What about all of the people who's initial impression was that the stock UI was fine?

...

Not everyone thinks it's ugly...

I am one of those who likes the stock UI. I do not find it ugly or hard to navigate. My wife, 7 year old and 9 year old all prefer the stock UI to SageMC.

What I am saying is that the lack of a "modern looking" UI, rightly or wrongly, DOES make a big different for first impressions. Of course once you "look under the hood" Sage compares very well in terms of functionality, flexibility and reliability. The issue is getting people to take notice and invest the time in getting to know SageTV.

[tedson]

BTW, on the extender front. At CES this year Toshiba announced MC extenders built into their new lineup of TVs. So you won't even need the XBoxes (after acquiring the next generation of TVs.)

On a side note Samsung was showing off this strange widget thing where you could download Konfabulator widgets to display on your TV. That could be very, very cool, or a popup ad nightmare.

[Brent]

Windows 7 Media Center will look great. It will also have a few things people have been clamoring for (I won't say what yet ), but the DRM issues that pop up too often, the limited (it will be better) video format support, no server/client architecture, poor implementation of extenders and painfully slow updates for bug fixes and/or new features.

That being said, I'm sure Windows 7 Media Center will do just fine and have plenty of users satisfied with what they have.


Those widgets on TVs were a very big thing at CES this year and all but one manufacturer used the Yahoo widget system. Guess who worked on the team that did that? Yep it was the original developer for the "old" Meedio. For me, I'd really prefer not to have widgets on my TV, but I haven't seen it in person so I guess I could change my mind on that.

[ghostlobster]

Originally Posted by stanger89

On Extenders? (Cause that's all I plan on using).

I still have a DMA2100 sitting around here, so hopefully they'll still work with Win7. I believe MyMovies prodides this functionality to extenders. I'm not 100% certain, but it's worth looking into.

Originally Posted by stanger89

I don't doubt it. From time to time I seriously look into switching, there's lots of nice stuff there. But every time I do, I run into showstopping missing features. They've fixed the guide thing (which I forgot about), but their extenders are just way too limited (I'm not converting my DVDs to WMV or MPG to use them on extenders).

Again, for DVDs, look into MyMovies. It's a pretty powerful program. Or, you could use Transcode360. Personally, I find myself doing the same thing....peeking back over that fence to see what's going on and if switching back is viable. Without HD-PVR support or client/server support, though, I just don't see it. And now that I've finally got everything consolidated on my WHS box, it's going to take far more to drag me over to that side again.

Originally Posted by stanger89

Man I hope not, I really don't like SageMC, maybe I could get it to work for me, but it's just too much work to get it there. But I do hope Sage does something to the UI/experience in Sage 7, if for no other reason than to quiet the endless "it's UI blows" chorus

Really? I found it very easy to install and configure. What is it that requires too much work?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by ghostlobster

I still have a DMA2100 sitting around here, so hopefully they'll still work with Win7. I believe MyMovies prodides this functionality to extenders. I'm not 100% certain, but it's worth looking into.


Again, for DVDs, look into MyMovies. It's a pretty powerful program. Or, you could use Transcode360. Personally, I find myself doing the same thing....peeking back over that fence to see what's going on and if switching back is viable. Without HD-PVR support or client/server support, though, I just don't see it. And now that I've finally got everything consolidated on my WHS box, it's going to take far more to drag me over to that side again.

Good point, I forgot MM supposedly supports DVDs on extenders. I've got Window 7 on my desktop, and a 360, so maybe I'll have to give it a "real" try. Scarilly enough, if they get the HD PVR working, and DVD's on extenders, and Blu-ray rips on extenders in some form, I think all the showstoppers would be gone to me using it...

Really? I found it very easy to install and configure. What is it that requires too much work?

Mainly the main menu. I don't like the default choices on it, and making it the way I want is a PITA picking menus from the rather arbitrary naming of internal sage menus.

[ghostlobster]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Scarilly enough, if they get the HD PVR working, and DVD's on extenders, and Blu-ray rips on extenders in some form, I think all the showstoppers would be gone to me using it...

That is spooky! For me it's client/server, WHS integration and DRM. I would have thought that when MS acquired...ah crap, I can't remember the name of the app/company, but they provided Orb-like functionality to MCE; a web based interface to media center for remote connectivity...anyway, when they bought whoever, I would have thought that was the sign that we were finally going to be getting softsled. Alas, no chance. WHS integration? Why in the world should one division within MS work with another one to provide a feature that its customers would use? That's just crazy talk right there! DRM? Who knows...maybe they'll loosen up.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by ghostlobster

That is spooky! For me it's client/server, WHS integration and DRM. I would have thought that when MS acquired...ah crap, I can't remember the name of the app/company, but they provided Orb-like functionality to MCE; a web based interface to media center for remote connectivity

WebGuide - and it was just one guy, not really a company, I think his name is Doug Berrett.

[wayner]

I really wonder about WHS integration as well. I was pointing about some issues on the MS WHS forums and the stock response is - you should be able to do everything with WHS using the Console - you should have no need to ever attach a KVM or Remote Desktop into the WHS PC. But then how does one edit sage.properties or install hardware like an HD-PVR, firewire devices, Sage add-ins etc. or even do initial config that would require the Sage UI to be running?

If this is the mindset that MS has then I don't see them moving to the WHS as TV tuner server model.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

What I am saying is that the lack of a "modern looking" UI, rightly or wrongly, DOES make a big different for first impressions. Of course once you "look under the hood" Sage compares very well in terms of functionality, flexibility and reliability. The issue is getting people to take notice and invest the time in getting to know SageTV.

What I'm saying is that plenty of people think the stock ui is "modern looking" enough and that it's making the proper first impression as many reviews verify. While some claim it's ugly or not intuitive, many reviews say otherwise. There are those that think it should look "different" but that's why we have SageMC and themes. Sage may very well update the UI for v7 but there's nothing wrong with the one they have now. You can't please everyone but most complaints against the stock ui are subjective not objective. Thousands of people have already taken the time, thousands more will.

More reviews:
"More than just a DVR (digital video recorder), SageTV is a software app that provides an intuitive interface..."

"The menu system is pretty self-explanatory."

"Attractive, user-friendly interface; program controls TV , photos, music, and video; affordable, available in a number of different bundles."

[ghostlobster]

Basically, it needs a facelift.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by ghostlobster

Basically, it needs a facelift.

As I said, that's your subjective opinion (and why SageMC exists) but not everyone agrees with that. It might very well *get* a facelift in v7 (or later) but for many users it doesn't "need" one.

I think Sage could cut down on the endless debate over the UI if they'd just say if v7 will be getting a new UI...or not.

[bialio]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

As I said, that's your subjective opinion (and why SageMC exists) but not everyone agrees with that. It might very well *get* a facelift in v7 (or later) but for many users it doesn't "need" one.

I think Sage could cut down on the endless debate over the UI if they'd just say if v7 will be getting a new UI...or not.

Is it your goal to populate every thread you can find with your views on Why the Default STV is fine? We get it already!

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by bialio

Is it your goal to populate every thread you can find with your views on Why the Default STV is fine? We get it already!

Is it your goal to populate every thread saying it isn't or just to try to stifle debate that doesn't agree with your opinion?

Why are dozens of threads and posts whining about the stock UI OK but posts that don't agree with that bad? Whys does it have to be one sided? Why are you afraid of dissent?

[tedson]

When I say SageMC should be a first class citizen that doesn't mean even changing the default UI. Ship SageMC with the product and have five or six prebuilt themes. Once of them can be standard Sage UI, one like centerstage, one like VMC, on like the Dish network DVR UI, one like Tivo, etc.

Make it really easy for people to switch over and choose what they like without a huge new learning curve.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by tedson

When I say SageMC should be a first class citizen that doesn't mean even changing the default UI. Ship SageMC with the product and have five or six prebuilt themes. Once of them can be standard Sage UI, one like centerstage, one like VMC, on like the Dish network DVR UI, one like Tivo, etc.

Make it really easy for people to switch over and choose what they like without a huge new learning curve.

I've said the exact same thing in other threads. Sage *could* ship with SageMC and even add it to the installer with a preview so users could pick.

[bialio]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Is it your goal to populate every thread saying it isn't or just to try to stifle debate that doesn't agree with your opinion?

Why are dozens of threads and posts whining about the stock UI OK but posts that don't agree with that bad? Whys does it have to be one sided? Why are you afraid of dissent?

I'm not afraid of dissent - I'm just observing that you have made your views clear, and populating every thread that mentions the UI issue with the same comments is just lame. Say something new or let what you've said previously stand - you don't have to repeat it over and over again to get the point across.

btl.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by bialio

I'm not afraid of dissent - I'm just observing that you have made your views clear

So has everyone that whines about the stock UI but you aren't complaining about them.

Again, why are dozens of threads and posts that whine about the stock UI OK but not posts that don't agree? If I'm only supposed to post my opinion once, what about all of the others that constantly whine about the stock UI? Why the double standard?

[bialio]

If you had only posted your opinion just once, we would not be having this conversation.

I'd have the same comments if someone was constantly repeating the same observations about the lameness of the Stock UI into multiple threads as well. There is no double standard.

btl.