Suspend and resume with SageTV

[jbuszkie]

Originally posted by flashbacck
How does the schedule file work? Shouldn't it update itself?

I would check your properties file. I'll bet your shedule.tx file is popping up in a place that you aren't expecting. If you are missing some "\"s in the file spec in the properties file, then it will show up in the lowest spot it recognizes. I know I had that problem when I was missing one of the double "\"s in the properties file.

Jim

[ripple]

First of all, I've done a lot of searching in this thread (and many others) so I hope I'm not asking old questions. I'm having limited success getting SageWake to work and I still have some unanswered questions I hope you guys can help with.

1) I was able to use SageWake to wake the system up on time after entering standby (without restarting Sage), but Sage seems to react differently depending on how I entered standby. If I push power (or use "Shutdown System"->"Standby") it seems to come back just fine, but if I let inactivity take it into standby Sage comes back with no video. Do most people solve this by restarting Sage?

2) Speaking of restarting Sage, how fast does Sage come back up for people? Mine takes a good 75 seconds to start, with 45 seconds of that being profiler initialization (I used IR in the past, but it's off now). This seems long when you just want to fire up the TV and see whats on...any way to shorten that?

3) What should the "disable_screen_saver_and_pm" property be set to when using SageWake? I have it set to true but now I'm wondering if that is correct...

4) I saw one mention of a Sage.exe command line argument "-startup", but couldn't find an explanation. Is this used to make the "Start Sage in Full Screen on Startup" property work upon a SageWake restart?

5) Has anybody measure power consumptions? My system shows a draw of 1.6 amps when on and .9 amps when in S3. These seem much higher than what I was expecting. Should I be concerned?

6) Question on hibernation. I thought hibernation saved all ram to disk and basically stops the system. How is SageWake (or any Windows timer for that matter) able to run and wake the system on time? Do programs still run in S4? and how is that possible if ram is not refreshed in S4..?..

Thanks,
Kevin

[jbuszkie]

Originally posted by ripple
1) Do most people solve this by restarting Sage?

I do not have to restart Sage. Mine comes up from S3 fine without having to restart

2) Speaking of restarting Sage, how fast does Sage come back up for people?

When I first start the app it take about 10-30 seconds.

6) Question on hibernation. I thought hibernation saved all ram to disk and basically stops the system. How is SageWake (or any Windows timer for that matter) able to run and wake the system on time? Do programs still run in S4? and how is that possible if ram is not refreshed in S4..?..

S4 and S3 there are no programs running. there is an alarm clock, so to speak, in the computer that's powered from standby power. the programs set this alarm before the computer powers down to allow the computer to wake at a specific time.

Other folks me be able to comment better about the other issues.. And I am dying to measure the power in active and standby mode. I'm interested to see what my results are!

Jim

[mwhitlock]

Originally posted by ripple
1) I was able to use SageWake to wake the system up on time after entering standby (without restarting Sage), but Sage seems to react differently depending on how I entered standby. If I push power (or use "Shutdown System"->"Standby") it seems to come back just fine, but if I let inactivity take it into standby Sage comes back with no video. Do most people solve this by restarting Sage?

Typically I don't have a problem as long as I put SageTV to sleep (minimize to tray) before suspending the system. Also, SageTV is not recording anything (so the hardware encoder is presumably not active) when I enter suspend.

2) Speaking of restarting Sage, how fast does Sage come back up for people?

Mine probably takes between 30 and 45 seconds. I'm sure it varies greatly depending on your CPU speed. The long delay is probably due to the JVM unserializing all the profiler data structures, a process that can be rather CPU intensive.

3) What should the "disable_screen_saver_and_pm" property be set to when using SageWake? I have it set to true but now I'm wondering if that is correct...

I find that when I set this to true, it breaks my system's ability to turn the monitor off when I leave the computer idle. It seems that once I have activated SageTV once, the monitor's power management is permanently inhibited, even if I put SageTV to sleep. (This is surely not the intended behavior but a bug that I did report but seems never to have been fixed.) I leave disable_screen_saver_and_pm set to false and set my monitor to turn off after 10 minutes of idle. Usually there is a commercial break more often than every 10 minutes, so I don't have a problem with the monitor going to sleep while I'm watching TV shows, but you would have a problem if you use a remote control to control Sage. (I use the keyboard.) You don't have to worry about the system entering standby while Sage is recording as long as you have SageWake running and configured properly.

4) I saw one mention of a Sage.exe command line argument "-startup", but couldn't find an explanation. Is this used to make the "Start Sage in Full Screen on Startup" property work upon a SageWake restart?

The -startup argument on the Sage.exe command line is what tells Sage to start in the system tray without displaying its UI immediately upon startup. I do believe Sage will start up in full screen if you do NOT specify -startup and you last used SageTV in full screen mode.

5) Has anybody measure power consumptions? My system shows a draw of 1.6 amps when on and .9 amps when in S3. These seem much higher than what I was expecting. Should I be concerned?

0.9 amps seems a bit high for standby power consumption. Most power supplies can only supply 2 amps at 12 Volts in standby mode, which would only be 0.2 amps at 120 Volts, or slightly more accounting for inefficiencies, but still nowhere near 0.9 amps. Maybe your system isn't truly entering S3. You may only be achieving S1. This can happen if you have device drivers or devices that don't support S3 or if you have some devices set to "Allow this device to wake the computer from standby" and they cannot be powered in S3 to provide that ability. The easiest way you can tell whether you're really achieving S3 is to observe the fan(s) in your computer's power supply unit. If the fans are still running, chances are you're really only in S1.

6) Question on hibernation. I thought hibernation saved all ram to disk and basically stops the system. How is SageWake (or any Windows timer for that matter) able to run and wake the system on time? Do programs still run in S4? and how is that possible if ram is not refreshed in S4..?..

Programs cease execution in all of the low power states, S1 through S4, because the processor is stopped in all of those states. The difference has to do with the RAM and peripheral devices.

In S1, the RAM is in normal operating mode and peripheral devices are powered on so that they can cause interrupts that may be programmed to bring the computer back to S0.

In S3, the RAM is in slow refresh mode and peripheral devices are typically turned off unless your power supply and motherboard are capable of providing power to them in S3. This may be the case for modems and NICs with wake-on-LAN or wake-on-ring capabilities, or for USB mice and keyboards. If your motherboard supports this, you will typically have to change jumper settings or BIOS options to enable it.

S4 isn't really a low power state, it's a "no power" state. S4 is entirely contrived by the operating system and requires no cooperation from the hardware. The contents of RAM, the CPU registers, and certain other device states are written to disk in a location where the system boot code will see them. When you turn your computer back on, the presence of that hibernation file (hiberfil.sys) tells NTLDR to load it, thus restoring the system state, rather than proceeding with normal boot.

About your question, jbuszkie has the correct answer: ACPI provides a system wake-up timer that can be set by software just prior to entering a low/no power mode. At the time of system suspend, Windows checks its table of waitable timers, finds the most immediate one with fResume enabled, and sets the wake-up timer to match it.

[ripple]

Thanks to jbsuszkie and mwhitlock for your input:

1) Originally posted by mwhitlock
Also, SageTV is not recording anything (so the hardware encoder is presumably not active) when I enter suspend.

Good point. I'll check the encoder state, but I thought Sage wouldn't let it go into standby if it was recording...

2) Mine probably takes between 30 and 45 seconds. I'm sure it varies greatly depending on your CPU speed. The long delay is probably due to the JVM unserializing all the profiler data structures, a process that can be rather CPU intensive.

My cpu is in the 2ghz range so I don't think it's too slow. The majority of time is spent initializing the profiler, and since I used IR heavily for about 5 months marking things as watched/don'tlike I'm sure that it has a ton of data. Is there a way to wipe this data? Even better would be to wipe it but somehow be able to get it back in case I ever decide to use IR again...

3) ...Usually there is a commercial break more often than every 10 minutes, so I don't have a problem with the monitor going to sleep while I'm watching TV shows, but you would have a problem if you use a remote control to control Sage. (I use the keyboard.)

I use a remote so it looks like I will leave it set to true.

4) The -startup argument on the Sage.exe command line is what tells Sage to start in the system tray without displaying its UI immediately upon startup.

Thanks, that makes sense.

5) ...The easiest way you can tell whether you're really achieving S3 is to observe the fan(s) in your computer's power supply unit. If the fans are still running, chances are you're really only in S1.

I think you're right, I'm not really in S3. I'll double check the BIOS tonight and see what's stopping it...

Originally posted by jbuskiez
6) S4 and S3 there are no programs running. there is an alarm clock, so to speak, in the computer that's powered from standby power. the programs set this alarm before the computer powers down to allow the computer to wake at a specific time.

Ahhhh. it all makes sense now. Thanks!

Kevin

[jbuszkie]

Originally posted by ripple

I think you're right, I'm not really in S3. I'll double check the BIOS tonight and see what's stopping it...
Kevin

It might not be your bios's fault. If you read earlier in this thread you'll find more info about S1 vs S3. I recall someone somewhere had mentioned that if you don't have S3 enabled when you install the os, then it will assume that you can never go into S3. There is a utility that will allow you to correct this if this is the case. Search for "dumppo" (I think)

Jim

[ripple]

Originally posted by jbuszkie
It might not be your bios's fault. If you read earlier in this thread you'll find more info about S1 vs S3. I recall someone somewhere had mentioned that if you don't have S3 enabled when you install the os, then it will assume that you can never go into S3. There is a utility that will allow you to correct this if this is the case. Search for "dumppo" (I think)

It turned out to be both...I had to allow S3 in the bios and use dumppo to set the minsleep/maxsleep states. It now definitely shuts down into S3 because the fans stop and only draws .09 amps!

Problem for me still is that when it comes back out of standby my sage window is black. It is running and recording just fine but no video until after I stop and restart Sage.

Will SageWake log the terminate and execute activity? I don't see any info in the log and my --terminate and --execute options don't seem to be working. I'll check more things tomorrow.

Thanks,
Kevin

[ugh]

I just wanted to give a big thanks!
This app is awesome and fixes a huge problem I had with Sage.

Now if I could only figure out how to wake from standby with my Hauppauge or StreamZap remote...

Oh, and thanks for keeping the link to the latest exe on the first post!

[jbuszkie]

mwhitlock,

I have a feature request (which may already be in? haven't tried)

If you push the suspend button while it's recording, then sage wake will stop it. Great!
If Sagewake had to wake the computer to record something and when its done it puts the computer back to
sleep if no keys/mouse were pressed... Great!

Now if I press the sleep key and I'm recording, can it stop my suspend and remember that I wanted to suspend and sleep the computer after the recording is done?

Senario.. I'm watching something at night and I'm done but it's still recording something. I want to put the computer to sleep but sage wake would prevent me. I don't want to stay up till it's done. I'd love to still be able to hit the sleep button and have it put the computer to sleep when it was done recording (if no mouse/keys were hit)

Does this seem like a reasonable request? Has it been already requested? Does it already do this? (then I'd feel stupid!)

Most of the time I wouldn't mind just setting the idle
timer to put the comuter to sleep. But I sometimes like to access the computer remotely and I can't if it's sleeping so I don't set the idle timer....

THanks,

Jim

[zalazar]

Hi mwhitlock, This master utility (sagewake) works really great. I noticed the post about how you are keeping the exe so small, this is also some achievement...

I have a question about the suspend option after SageTV recorded a TV-program. sagewake is putting the computer back in sleep (standby) if mouse or keyboard isn't touched at that time. This works fine, but is it maybe possible to add an extra option to put the computer in hibernate mode instead of standby.

Thanks for your answer in advance.
Robert

[griley]

Originally Posted by ripple

Problem for me still is that when it comes back out of standby my sage window is black. It is running and recording just fine but no video until after I stop and restart Sage.

Hmmm... I'm having the same exact problem. I rebuilt my pvr with a new mobo and forgot to enable suspend-to-ram (STR) in the BIOS before installing XP. So I have to use the "dumppo" program as well.

When sagewake wakes the computer I see a blank scrren (I'm running SAGE full-screen on startup). However, it is recording just fine.

If I turn the computer on by pressing the power button after going into standby, all works fine.

I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and reinstall XP with the STR enabled to see if that solves the problem.

BTW, Thanks for Sagewake!

-George

[mls]

Just a side note... Many USB devices and some video cards don't come back or reset properly from standby. Some if this depends on BIOS settings, the rest depends on the specific hardware involved.

Too avoid certain problems, sometimes it's easier to just leave the PC run all the time and just have the monitor power down. Or, otherwise have the PC totally shut down so it can boot up fresh.

Would depend how your hardware handles things.

[jptaz]

mls,

I have problems with Standby, but hibernate works just fine so that is what I use. I used to have problems with my Video Card in Standby, but I think since Hibernate cuts power to everything it is closer to a normal reboot when I come out of hibernate. I have been using Hibernate for more thant 6 Months and I only do a real reboot when I am installing something new or on a windows update.

John

[mwhitlock]

Hibernate does actually fully shut your computer down. There is no difference in hardware between "hibernate" and "shut down." Hibernation is a magic trick of the operating system. That's probably why you don't have issues when using hibernation rather than suspend, which does require cooperation from the hardware and drivers.

[RicardoD]

mwhitlock,

First of all thanks for much for Sagewake.

I am using the suspend to RAM function and have noticed some strange behavior that I managed to correct. I am posting to share with others who are perhaps running into the same thing.

When I suspended to PowerON in my bios I had no problems. PowerOn suspend doesn't feel so suspended (know what I mean, blue leds and fan still blowing)

In my BIOS I changed to Suspend to Ram.

Here is my setup:
SageTV 2.0
Hauppage PVR-250
RCA DirectTV box, with Serial Cable control to change channels

The problem I had is that if I had two shows to record during the day when I am away, the second show would fail to change to the correct channel. The PC would wake properly for the first show, change channels, and record, the second show would record but fail to change to the correct channel via my serial cable to RCA DirecTV STB.

My sagewake shortcut file was setup as follows:
"C:\Program Files\Frey Technologies\SageTV\SageWake.exe" --noir= --leadtime=120

This happened two days in a row, so I ran some quick tests with timed recordings and was able to confirm that second show would fail to change to the correct channel.

So I changed my sagewake shortcut file as follows (added --terminate and --execute):
"C:\Program Files\Frey Technologies\SageTV\SageWake.exe" --noir= --leadtime=120 --terminate="SageApp" --execute="C:\Program Files\Frey Technologies\SageTV\SageTV.exe"

I never quite understood using the --execute and --terminate command for SageTV.exe cause it seems redundant. I thought it was not needed.

Anyway this solved my problem and I can now do a full Suspend to Ram.

All the best,
Ricardo

P.S. sagewake is not needed in SageTV 2.1, correct? This is a built in function of 2.1? My system is stable now and working so I will wait to until a "stable" release is made.

[mwhitlock]

I have seen a few sketchy comments about additional power management support in SageTV 2.1. I too would like to know the full story. I somehow doubt whether they've got as many options as SageWake has. I can't seem to find them anywhere at least. And of course, remember that SageWake lets you specify certain time ranges during which to ignore recordings and not wake up if asleep. And it can start other applications upon power resume. If SageTV itself were capable of waking the computer to record, I don't know that they would include those options.

Oh, I might add, I'm working on SageWake 2.0. Major rewrite. It will include jbuszkie's and zalazar's feature requests, and who knows, maybe a GUI? Maybe a tray icon and a configuration dialog? A graphical timeline showing Sage recordings and scheduled wake times, reporting of concurrent shows on multiple tuners, statistics tracking, support for executing command lines with arguments, popup notification of recordings, interactive suspend countdown alert... wait and see... it's gonna be cool.

[RicardoD]

mwhitlock,

I am glad to hear the you haven't stopped Sagewake development. A gui (and small help file) would be nice because it was a bit of a challenge to go through this thread and figure it all out. All I know is this program works, and works well. I have a very stable system right now with SageTV 2.0 and Sagewake (plus mlbdudes stv).

Ricardo

[pnr]

Sorry to ask but where is the schedule file from Sage TV located?

[mwhitlock]

Originally Posted by pnr

Sorry to ask but where is the schedule file from Sage TV located?

http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showpos...&postcount=218

[sudipto]

Originally Posted by mwhitlock

I have seen a few sketchy comments about additional power management support in SageTV 2.1. I too would like to know the full story. I somehow doubt whether they've got as many options as SageWake has. I can't seem to find them anywhere at least. And of course, remember that SageWake lets you specify certain time ranges during which to ignore recordings and not wake up if asleep. And it can start other applications upon power resume. If SageTV itself were capable of waking the computer to record, I don't know that they would include those options.

Oh, I might add, I'm working on SageWake 2.0. Major rewrite. It will include jbuszkie's and zalazar's feature requests, and who knows, maybe a GUI? Maybe a tray icon and a configuration dialog? A graphical timeline showing Sage recordings and scheduled wake times, reporting of concurrent shows on multiple tuners, statistics tracking, support for executing command lines with arguments, popup notification of recordings, interactive suspend countdown alert... wait and see... it's gonna be cool.

Matt - that's awesome ! I am sooo glad you decided to continue working on it. After installing Sage 2.1 I had to stop using SageWake since I wasn't sure if the SageTV power management will conflict with SageWake ... but I would love to contune using SageWake since it seems to be more feature rich.

Anyone know how to tell Sage NOT to use power management and instead let SageWake take care of it ?

I have used SageWake for about a month before Sage 2.1, and it never even once failed to wake up the system at the right time; however, in the less than one week since my upgrade to Sage 2.1, the computer has already failed to wake up (and missed recording part of two shows) twice I am not blaming Jeff or anyone else, but it just seems SageWake is a little more mature at this point than SageTV's built-in power management.