End of QAM tuners ?

[sic0048]

While every household is going to be different, I find that a HDHR recording my local HD stations (for me that happens to be via QAM because I get cable internet) and one HD-PVR (for me that happens to be recording my Dish service) for everything else is enough. Having two tuners for the networks is good because most shows are only aired once during the regular season. The rest of the stations tend to repeat shows multiple times throughout the week, so a single tuner seems to capture everything else.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by sic0048

While every household is going to be different, I find that a HDHR recording my local HD stations (for me that happens to be via QAM because I get cable internet) and one HD-PVR (for me that happens to be recording my Dish service) for everything else is enough. Having two tuners for the networks is good because most shows are only aired once during the regular season. The rest of the stations tend to repeat shows multiple times throughout the week, so a single tuner seems to capture everything else.

I'm with you. Even when I had cable, I didn't get anything more than my locals with the HDHomerun. Now that I am with Dish, I still get my locals in HD via QAM because of my cable modem. I have never gotten anything more than my locals via QAM, and I am very happy with using my HDHomerun for QAM as it is more reliable than my OTA reception. For that reason alone I couldn't give up my HDHomerun (I also use my Hauppauge HVR2250 for QAM as well).

[davidjade]

Originally Posted by sic0048

... it will still continue to only be able to pass on unencrypted QAM stations. That is all it is doing now, and it will continue to do so in the future.

Now Comcast is going to start encrypting 98% of their digital channels (where as now they don't encrypt many (or any) at all). ... You should still get your local HD channels after the switch.

It is my understanding that in Seattle at least, everything above channel 29 will be encrypted starting Dec 8th, 2009 (per a public notice Comcast recently put in the Seattle Times). While the local channels are all below 29, these are only the 480i SD versions of the local channels. The HD versions of the local channels start at channel 100 and from what I've understood, they will be encrypted.

So while the HDHR will still work for the remaining clear QAM channels (2-29) on Comcast Seattle after the switch, what's the point when all you can receive are the 480i SD local channels?

[Fuzzy]

Again, this is probably incorrect information. More than likely, what they MEAN is that everything below 29 will remain ANALOG. The HD locals will be in the digital broadcast (as they always have) and will probably still be ClearQAM.

[davidjade]

I certainly hope that you are correct that this only applies to analog channels.

Comcast certainly isn't making it very easy to tell for sure though as they often don't differentiate about which types of channels they are talking about, analog vs. QAM, local vs. cable, etc...

Are they cutting just the analog channels? When they say that channels about 29 will be scrambled and require a DTA does this apply to the HD versions of local channels (which are all above 29) or just cable-only channels? They don't say.

[Fuzzy]

They are being vague for a reason, it would be easier for them, support wise, to just get everyone to use a DTA. A majority of people do NOT have a QAM capable tuner, so it's easier to say that if they DON'T get the DTA, they won't be able to get anything above 29.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The HD PVR (whether specifically from Hauppauge or not) was basically guaranteed to happen. The hardware (video encoder, video digitizer) existed, so did the market, and there was really nothing anyone could do to stop it.

But there's a much bigger, more fundamental difference, that is it was (still is really) technologically impossible to prevent the capture of analog signals. Analog signals can't be encrypted or obfuscated in such a was as to make them undecipherable. Because the entire video system from studio to your TV was analog, it was simply impossible prevent people from capturing and deciphering analog audio/video signals, and since the standards were published, anyone could go out and build a device which records video.

If Comcast or others make you get a box for basic cable I assume that if they want, they can disable the component outputs and force you to use a lesser quality output, like S-video or composite.

Does the HD-PVR have these inputs or just component?

Greg

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Greg

If Comcast or others make you get a box for basic cable I assume that if they want, they can disable the component outputs and force you to use a lesser quality output, like S-video or composite.

Does the HD-PVR have these inputs or just component?

Greg

Yes, the HD-PVR has those, but then you wouldn't be able to record in HD.

[stanger89]

And disabling component would PO a lot of customers.

[Taddeusz]

Cox Cable ticked me off a bit this weekend. Not sure why they did it but they decided to move WGNHD from QAM channel 133 to 131. This caused a couple missed recordings of "Legend of the Seeker" for the kid.

The only reason I'm recording it off WGNHD is because neither of our local CW or Fox affiliates who also carry "Legend of the Seeker" apparently have the equipment to carry syndicated content in HD. They both pillarbox Seeker. Short of an illegal download WGNHD is the only way for me to get an HD recording of it.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stanger89

And disabling component would PO a lot of customers.

Perhaps. I think they could downsample component output to 480p without a large percentage of people noticing. I expect some sort of movement in that first. First only pre-released movies on PPV, then expanding to all PPV. Then going to premium channels. And, perhaps, the rest of them (except for maybe local broadcast stations).

Even if they downsample, you'd still be better off using component to get 480p output, rather than s-video at 480i. 480p doesn't look too awful on a moderately-sized HDTV. But, sometimes it sounds like they're talking about turning off the component jacks entirely.

[Fuzzy]

I haven't heard anything official about turning off component.. that would not fly at all. What HAS been 'approved' for use is the downsampling for non-secure HD formats (Component and HDMI without HDCP). This has been 'allowed' in the cablelabs standards for some time now, it just hasn't been pressured by the media providers hard enough.. YET...

[FreshOne]

It is past the date for the Seattle expanded Basic ClearQAM cutoff....

Can anyone in Seattle verify if Comcast has HD locals in ClearQAM or only the SD locals (480i) in ClearQAM ?

Thanks.

[Humanzee]

HD locals in at least in South Seattle are in clear QAM. Basically anything you can get OTA in the area, they re-broadcast in clear. this includes ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS, CBUT and their sub channels You also get KONG in HD and maybe a few more. Otherwise the line up in Seattle in clear QAM is the equivalent of what was on 2-29 and 73-99 on the old analog line-up plus the FM radio stations.

[FreshOne]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

HD locals in at least in South Seattle are in clear QAM. Basically anything you can get OTA in the area, they re-broadcast in clear. this includes ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS, CBUT and their sub channels You also get KONG in HD and maybe a few more. Otherwise the line up in Seattle in clear QAM is the equivalent of what was on 2-29 and 73-99 on the old analog line-up plus the FM radio stations.

Great news.

Thanks !

[Greg]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I haven't heard anything official about turning off component.. that would not fly at all. What HAS been 'approved' for use is the downsampling for non-secure HD formats (Component and HDMI without HDCP). This has been 'allowed' in the cablelabs standards for some time now, it just hasn't been pressured by the media providers hard enough.. YET...

I just recieved my Home Theater magazine and there is an article discussing SOC (Selectable Output Control). This would allow the cable/sat companies to disable the analog outputs; not just component but, could include S-video and composite, as well. Downsampling the signal was also an option. This would be on a program by program basis. This would all be driven by the producers.

No time frame was given when a decision was expected.

Greg

[Fuzzy]

They won't actually disable the outputs. The thing is, they've waited too long to implement it. If they all of a sudden turned it on now, they would seriously piss off a large portion of their customers, and would have no valid reason to give for it. ("Sorry, you can't use that out-dated method of connecting your display. It won't work with the HD content. You'll have to purchase a new TV set that has HDMI" -- "Then why did it work fine yesterday" -- "uhh... something changed?"). They MIGHT be able to get away with some downsampling, as that might go unnoticed by most, but basically, they've missed their oppurtunity for it. The only way to get rid of component at this point is to wait for hardware attrition...

[KarylFStein]

I just received a letter from Comcast stating that in Feb. channels 29-72 will be digital only . However, even after reading thread, I'm not 100% sure what that means to me.

I have 2 1800s and expanded basic service. I only use the digital tuners to get the major networks in HD. (The good news is I am close enough to Detroit to get them fine from an antenna in my attic if necessary.)

The letter says that I'll be getting one digital receiver and two digital adapters. I'm guessing that the digital receiver is a STB, but what are the adapters? From what I can gather, it'll convert the digital channels to analog, no? But I'm also thinking that they require an IR signal to change channels? If so, that really stinks; I got rid of my IR blaster stuff a while ago because it was much simpler with the internal capture devices...and the whole reason I stuck with cable is because it let me do that.

I saw one post on here saying that the expanded basic channels were still clear QAM for them. Anyone in the Detroit area with Comcast have any experience with that? If so, that would be great. Although I suppose it's not something I'd bank on staying that way...

Anyway, I'm having trouble figuring out what this letter really means. What are my best options for something that gives me what I have now while adding the least amount of complexity (and cost!)? If I'm going to have to use IR blasters again (ugh) then there's no reason to NOT ditch cable, right? On the other hand, it seems like all I'd need to do is get an IR blaster for the adapters and plug them into the 1800s, and I'd be back in business? Do I lose any picture quality? Other options?

I finally got everything contained in a single server and single UPS, and now it looks like that's no longer going to be the case...annoying

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

The letter says that I'll be getting one digital receiver and two digital adapters. I'm guessing that the digital receiver is a STB, but what are the adapters? From what I can gather, it'll convert the digital channels to analog, no?

Yes, that's basically what they do. Digital adapters (aka digital transport adapters, or DTAs) are essentially set-top boxes with limited functionality. They can only do SD, and I believe their only output is RF (i.e., set your TV to channel 3/4).

But I'm also thinking that they require an IR signal to change channels?

Yes, you'll need to do IR blasting with the DTAs. I think there's some chance that you can hook up a USB-UIRT directly to the back of the DTA (since they seem to have a IR receiver jack), but I'm not sure if that would work. I don't think you'd want to record off of a DTA anyway, since the quality probably wouldn't be very good. Plus I'm not even sure that would work. I'd tried to do something similar to that a year ago with a DCT700 and a PVR-250, and Sage wouldn't let me set it up to record off of channel 3, but do external tuning at the same time.

I saw one post on here saying that the expanded basic channels were still clear QAM for them.

Comcast markets will almost certainly lose all non-local clear QAM channels at some point. It seems to be happening toward the end of the digital transition in a particular market. The SiliconDust site should be able to tell you what clear QAM channels work in your area right now, but that could change at any time. I wouldn't buy something expecting to keep getting non-local clear QAM channels.

If I'm going to have to use IR blasters again (ugh) then there's no reason to NOT ditch cable, right?

Well, there's firewire with cable TV, which isn't an option with satellite. You can use firewire to change channels, and sometimes you can even record off of it instead of using tuners or capture cards (that's what I do with one of my HD STBs).

On the other hand, it seems like all I'd need to do is get an IR blaster for the adapters and plug them into the 1800s, and I'd be back in business? Do I lose any picture quality? Other options?

As I said, I'm not sure you can get Sage to record off the DTAs. But, maybe I was doing something wrong when I tried. You'd certainly lose quality. If I were you, and wanted to record off of STBs, I'd complain to Comcast and try to get them to send out full set top boxes instead of the DTAs, for no additional cost. Then I'd record using s-video. (I'd probably also get the HVR-2250, instead of the 1800, since it can do 2 analog captures at the same time).

There really aren't any good alternatives to using set top boxes right now. It's possible that SiliconDust will come out with a cable card device that will work with Sage, but I wouldn't hold my breath. We'll know in a few days though.

[KarylFStein]

Thanks for the reply. I didn't think about Sage needing to keep the "recording" channel 3 on the 1800 while needing to change the channel on the DTA. Makes sense that doesn't work.

So my plan is to "demand" that Comcast give me two STBs with firewire for free and ditch the DTAs, (yeah, good luck). Try to get firewire tuning to work and if I can't, get a USB-UIRT. Feed my antenna into the 1800s digital input for HD and the STBs into SVIDEO. Finally, start saving for some HD-PVRs for a switch to sattelite .