IT seems awfully quiet in the beta department... until now

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Brent

A wild guess: 70% of all users (own SageTV 6) or 80% of all active SageTV users

My guess is that is a wildly high number. My guess is a large 'silent majority' of users who had working sagetv6 server/client machines haven't spent the monmey for the extender. Also, there are quite a few who have moved from BTV or MCE who already had the HTPC thing, and just changed the software. For those, it's not really worth the money for more hardware, to do what theirs already does.

That said, I think I'm an exception in that I actally choose NOT to use the extender, because I loose too much of what I use the HTPC for.

Now.. I'm sure there ARE quite a few that have started 'adding' HD200's for secondary displays.

[bsung]

Originally Posted by Brent

A wild guess: 70% of all users (own SageTV 6) or 80% of all active SageTV users

If the ratio in question was HD200's or HD100's / Sage Users, it would probably be substantially higher... maybe 1.5x-2x?

[bits]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

My guess is that is a wildly high number. My guess is a large 'silent majority' of users who had working sagetv6 server/client machines haven't spent the monmey for the extender. Also, there are quite a few who have moved from BTV or MCE who already had the HTPC thing, and just changed the software. For those, it's not really worth the money for more hardware, to do what theirs already does.

That said, I think I'm an exception in that I actally choose NOT to use the extender, because I loose too much of what I use the HTPC for.

Now.. I'm sure there ARE quite a few that have started 'adding' HD200's for secondary displays.

I am not disputing your numbers or reasoning but would add that there is a population of folks like myself who sat on the fence between HTPC and network media player/extender. I think many of them go with the HD200 for their primary viewing TV because of its low cost, ease of setup, WAF and highly desirable form factor as opposed to HTPC. I personally prefer having a PC located elsewhere in my house that I can use for every day stuff, for recording, for editing, for serving. I know it can at times be a matter of semantics but IMHO the HD200, when taking into account all of its capability, is a great alternative to a HTPC. I think sometimes too much emphasis is put on eye candy vs actual functionality and actual cost.

Just my $.02 cents worth.

[Fuzzy]

I was in no way trying to detract from teh Hd200's capabilities, or it's capability to make setup and reliabilty vastly improved. I was merely stating that there probably are a LARGE number that have had working HTPC setups for many years, and never felt the need to spend MORE on an HD200. For a newcomer to the SageTV world, the HD-200 is certainly almost a guaranteed purchase. But I don't htink those newcomers make up 80% of the sagetv population.

[bits]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I was in no way trying to detract from teh Hd200's capabilities, or it's capability to make setup and reliabilty vastly improved. I was merely stating that there probably are a LARGE number that have had working HTPC setups for many years, and never felt the need to spend MORE on an HD200. For a newcomer to the SageTV world, the HD-200 is certainly almost a guaranteed purchase. But I don't htink those newcomers make up 80% of the sagetv population.

I agree.

[Tiki]

My guess is certainly no better than anyone else's, but if I had to guess I would say:

(1) ~20-25% of all SageTV users use an HD100 or HD200 extender as their primary viewing device.
(2) ~25-30% of all SageTV users own an HD100 or HD200 extender.
(3) For every 100 SageTV Media Center licenses sold, Sage has sold maybe 60-65 HD100s or HD200s, 20-25 Placeshifter licenses, and 10-15 Client Licenses.

Again - I pulled all these numbers out of the air, they are just guesses based on my own preferences and the comments I have read in these forums from other users. I'm sure I'm no more accurate than the commentators during a football pre-game show are at guessing the outcome of the game.

[toricred]

Another thing to think about is that several people came to Sage because of the HD Extenders. Especially recently the influx from MCE and BTV.

[Dingdul]

Originally Posted by toricred

Another thing to think about is that several people came to Sage because of the HD Extenders. Especially recently the influx from MCE and BTV.

Absolutely. I adopted Sage because of pitiful reviews of the Windows Media Centre extenders; were they of HD200 calibre then I'd have stuck with Media Centre.

Yesterday a colleague asked if I'd played with the latest Media Centre on Windows 7 - I admitted to having promptly uninstalled it through fear of an accidental click and coming face to face with the superior UI...

[mayamaniac]

Its the new year, please start a new beta cycle so we have something to tinker with.

Windows 7 is out, so we needed an updated version of SageTV so that it is officially supported.

Hopefully, we can get a sneak peak of the new UI. I hope the online services is overhauled. It would look killer for EP's awesome Hulu/Netflix plugin.I wouldn't mind a new "Hulu/Netflix" main menu item just for this plugin alone.

[TwistedMelon]

I ran SageTV for years without an extender. I'd probably still be running it now without an extender had they not been released. However, I'm an enthusiast, not a typical consumer. A typical consumer will not run SageTV unless it is set up for them by an integrator (which can be a professional or friend or family).

Sage should definitely keep a heavy focus on the extenders as it's likely the ticket to continued chance at longevity in the market. Good margins on the device, especially when coupled with the server software.

I suspect that their market for stand-alone streamer use (an HD200 without the server software) however is very low. There is significant competition out there right now in the form of cheap crap products that people should know better than to buy, as well as some really decent ones, like the Western Digital HD TV Live.

The makers of the Popcorn Hour are also finally revamping their interface and are set to introduce a streaming box at $100 (the super sweet impulse-buy price point). The UI isn't necessarily as good as some of the software-only solutions out there that I mentioned before (XBMC et al.) but it's a huge improvement over the previous Popcorn Hour UI and it can more than hold its own against the competition. Sage's stand-alone HD200 UI isn't in the same league unfortunately.

TODO items for Sage:

Completely revamp the web site so it immediately grabs people's attention to the products. The current site is drab and extremely out-dated.

Revamp the UI for the stand-alone and extender modes (the whole SageTV UI period).

Put a strong focus on presentation/selection/organization of media files. This is the biggest weakness in SageTV's UI right now, IMO.

Put a marketing focus on the extender hardware product(s) to push them into the hands of consumers who don't know about or even necessarily care about the PVR aspect. Once they have the box they can upgrade to the PVR later. The streamer category is getting hotter and has a lot of life left in it. The past few years have been a trickle compared to the flood-gates that are opening now in this segment, IMO.

The above will require revamping at least the case for the HD200. The current case, while nice and sturdy has a front panel that looks pretty bad, without even a proper IR lens. Replace that remote too with something a lot more streamlined that won't scare away potential new customers with its ugliness nor insane number of buttons. You can navigate a great UI with as little as 5 buttons. 10-18 should strike an excellent balance of simplicity and direct-input features.

I'll continue to use the HD200 and would consider updating to something newer from Sage if the above issues are addressed. If not, I'll be looking to add another device to my setup for streaming video. It's time to bring my video playback UI up to the level of my music system.

[Deacon Crusher]

just throwing my take into this thread again in case sage is monitoring.

new extender with hdmi 1.3 for full bitstreaming of all audio types. also, new extender includes dts decoding so you can hook an extender directly to a TV or soundbar that only has stereo and hear the audio track from a blu-ray that only has dts and/or dts-hd audio tracks (like you can with blu-rays that have ac3 or ac3hd tracks.) make it small and stand alone (like the WD products) and accept an internal HD for local storage (which sage server can use if/when user adds sage server.) This will get Sage into more households which is the goal.

Fully integrate (or make hooks even friendlier) playback of internet streams, playon, hulu etc. enhance this ability in stand alone and client/server mode both.

Support for choosing different chapters from blu-ray chapter list.

Make the UI snazzy and exciting (steal most of sagemc at a minimum.)

Make the UI multi-user aware with parental controls. multiple accounts can subscribe to a favorite, favorite can't/won't auto delete until all subscribed users have viewed the favorite or when the admin (me) wants to delete.

Make parental controls really work so only parental viewer or viewer who enters code or whatever can even see that shows and movies exist on the system.

Get the placeshifter to work with hd-pvr files (including at 1080i) and even better movies/dvds/blu-rays, also add easy stop/start transport controls to the placeshifter, right now you have to add a toolbar plugin or use the memorized keystrokes. incorporate transcoding using video card gpu as the engine (if you need to only support one brand of gpu at first that's fine.)

Keep working on making tuner setup easier.

Give me all of that in Sage 7 and charge me a reasonable fee (less then 3 figures, not counting new extenders) and I'm all over it.

Those items will put sage ahead of anything Tivo, MS media center, xbmc, and all the competitors are trying to do.

Go Sage.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by Deacon Crusher

Get the placeshifter to work with hd-pvr files and even better movies/dvds/blu-rays. incorporate transcoding using video card gpu as the engine (if you need to only support one brand of gpu at first that's fine.)

Aside from your GPU request, I can watch both HD-PVR recordings, and a BluRay Rip of Transformers2 via placeshifter while I am at work. (just confirmed before posting)

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

Aside from your GPU request, I can watch both HD-PVR recordings, and a BluRay Rip of Transformers2 via placeshifter while I am at work. (just confirmed before posting)

I didn't think Sage could transcode 1080i HD-PVR files. That was a long time ago, though, so maybe that's been resolved.

[Deacon Crusher]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

Aside from your GPU request, I can watch both HD-PVR recordings, and a BluRay Rip of Transformers2 via placeshifter while I am at work. (just confirmed before posting)

can you do it at home over the lan without transcoding?

That's more what I use for testing, but interesting that you get it at work, what's the quality look like?

Thanks

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by Deacon Crusher

can you do it at home over the lan without transcoding?

That's more what I use for testing, but interesting that you get it at work, what's the quality look like?

Thanks

All of my tv's and projector are 720p so I have my cable boxes set to that resolution. Quality is pretty good, kinda like my slingbox solo. I haven't tried over local LAN because quite frankly I use the client software if I need to see tv on a laptop.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I didn't think Sage could transcode 1080i HD-PVR files. That was a long time ago, though, so maybe that's been resolved.

Yeah, I don't record at 1080i, so I guess you could say it half works.

[Taddeusz]

I have reported several times but the transcoder still has problems with any interlaced HDPVR recordings. 480i or 1080i.

[wayner]

It is still very quiet on the beta front after many months. With all of the hoopla over the Ceton and SiliconDust CableCard tuners, is there a possiblity that Sage is working on CableCard certification? Not that it would help us Canadians since they aren't available here.

[tpboyce]

Originally Posted by wayner

It is still very quiet on the beta front after many months. With all of the hoopla over the Ceton and SiliconDust CableCard tuners, is there a possiblity that Sage is working on CableCard certification? Not that it would help us Canadians since they aren't available here.

SageTV + CableCard + A revised interface = Ultimate Media Center Killer

We can only hope that this is what is announced at CES. Based upon the fact that I just purchased a motherboard and CableCard tuner to test out Windows 7, the odds do slightly increase that this is reality.

[Brent]

I don't see native CableCard in SageTV's future honestly. Our only hope for CableCard with SageTV is the kind of add-on that requires W7 working as the "recording engine" on your SageTV server which "transfers" that to your SageTV - like the one babgvant is experimenting with.

I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe SageTV will be able to get CableCard - at least nothing as far as I know of has changed since I interviewed Jeff (Narflex) about it this summer. Granted some things have changed since I chatted with Jeff in July but...

That being said, I do hope to see something "come out" from SageTV at CES. SageTV doesn't make a habit of making a huge spash at CES or anything, but there's usually something new. We'll have to watch the next few days to see... I'll be reading GeekTonic and ZatzNotfunny to get any morsels of info of course