Ceton extender beta shipping in Sept

[darcilicious]

Just received an email from newegg.com for pre-order, $179.00

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815706003

[cncb]

It is truly amazing how they seem to be trying to botch the release of this product. But even with that in mind I was thinking today how if they add DTS passthrough (which seems likely based on statements by beta testers) then the Echo will not be much different than the HD200 which at the time I didn't have much of a problem dropping $200 a piece on. Granted I am willing to convert my movies to MKV but still...

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by cncb

... Granted I am willing to convert my movies to MKV but still...

Your assuming HBR MKV's will play on the Echo. DVD rips will play just fine, however.

[stanger89]

At this point, my advice is to expect the Echo to be as bad, or worse than the Xbox, anything beyond that should be a pleasant surprise.

[cncb]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Your assuming HBR MKV's will play on the Echo. DVD rips will play just fine, however.

Yes, I am. But I will be shocked if the hardware won't support this or they really are incompetent at Ceton. I just hope you can verify this is working for us before it ships (I just placed a pre-order).

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by cncb

Yes, I am. But I will be shocked if the hardware won't support this or they really are incompetent at Ceton. I just hope you can verify this is working for us before it ships (I just placed a pre-order).

Ceton is expecting to have a FW release later this week. Hopefully that will support HD, currently much more then 10mbps will ckoke the Echo. But as you state, I would be supprised if that isn't supported by release. I think they know if they don't, the echo will die before it is really born.

The processor, even if dual core, should be sufficant to pull off HBR files. It is quite an impressive spec. which also supports 3D.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

The processor, even if dual core, should be sufficant to pull off HBR files. It is quite an impressive spec. which also supports 3D.

Video decoding is hardware-accelerated, right? It shouldn't matter what version of the chip its using.

By the way, my beta unit was shipped yesterday, but I still don't have access to the beta forum. Do they try to wait until its delivered?

[panteragstk]

I have to think if they are keeping the release date at Nov 30th then I have to think the beta firmware is going to open up quite a few features. That, or they know they have a final firmware they are working on, but are slowly releasing the beta's with a few features here and there added in and will release them every week or so to make sure they work.

If they don't have a final firmware with the support they promised, they might as well not release the product. Why buy this when an xbox can do so much more? (never thought I'd type that sentence)

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Video decoding is hardware-accelerated, right? It shouldn't matter what version of the chip its using. ...

Not sure about that. The SOC enviroment is slightly differant depending on the architecture. Some times the system has to manage the hardware. I believe that is the case here, as they wouldn't have such a hard time turring on 1080p if it were not the case. I would think?

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I have to think if they are keeping the release date at Nov 30th then I have to think the beta firmware is going to open up quite a few features. That, or they know they have a final firmware they are working on, but are slowly releasing the beta's with a few features here and there added in and will release them every week or so to make sure they work.

Well it will almost be two weeks since the last FW dump. Which was the third for the beta, and not much was improved, only things like boot screens and and menu/remote functionality.

JMO, but I highly doubt that the final FW version is actually written, I am not sure it's actually planned out either. The way things are going over at AVS, I think they are adding functionality as quick as they can so the release will not fall short.

If they don't have a final firmware with the support they promised, they might as well not release the product. Why buy this when an xbox can do so much more? (never thought I'd type that sentence)

I never thought I would ever read that anywhere (except from me maybe) wow, that was a big statement.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

I never thought I would ever read that anywhere (except from me maybe) wow, that was a big statement.

You know things are going awry for a company (any company) when Sage users begin to say that the Xbox is "better" at... anything...

[Skybolt]

Two weeks from a release and their latest FW does not support 1080p and AC-3, Really? Going to move this to the bedroom ... It will get tested alot from there, at least the PCM 2.0 audio won't matter.

I know I am being tough on Ceton, but c'mon, two weeks to release, how many bugs do you think are going to be in there?

Oh, and yes, I ordered a 360 4GB slim as well.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

I know I am being tough on Ceton, but c'mon, two weeks to release, how many bugs do you think are going to be in there?

Right, it's crazy. I haven't set up my Echo yet (I just got it yesterday), but I've been surprised at the bugs I'm seeing reported by the testers. I don't think very many companies would move forward with a release under these conditions. But, Ceton appears to be set on sticking to their release schedule.

They must be desperate. I think this is more of a niche product that techies would buy for themselves, rather than getting as a Christmas present, so I don't really see the need to get it out before the holidays. But, Ceton apparently thinks there's enough value there that they're willing to accept the risk of some bad-to-mediocre press coverage at launch. Maybe they figure their days as a CE company are numbered anyway, so they don't have as much to lose from a bad launch.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Right, it's crazy. I haven't set up my Echo yet (I just got it yesterday), but I've been surprised at the bugs I'm seeing reported by the testers.

Yeah, I don't get it either, I've only been involved with hardware betas with Sage, but my HD100 (Sage's first try, like the Echo for Ceton), came basically fully functional when I got it. I know there were bugs, but I know I could pick a resolution to match my display. I can't remember if it had native output switching right away or not, but yeah, I just don't get the Ceton beta at all.

I'm not really sure what happened, it seems like they were at least partially caught off guard by the chip they chose, which is only just becoming available. But that makes me wonder why they picked that chip in the first place. I mean it's like they just had their first internal software build that sort of works done in time for the public beta, like they just got the Echo themselves days or (few) weeks before. Why not pick a chip you can get at least samples of a couple months ahead of time.

I could ramble on with speculation (did they have a different hardware platform planned that fell through, did they have more planned for the Echo+Q that the shelving of the Q disrupted...). But it doesn't matter, I stepped out of the beta and I really don't have a lot of confidence that they'll even match the Xbox 360 at this point.

The other thing I wonder, is I get the impression that (and I don't mean too much offense by this) that the folks at Ceton are WMC fanboys and can't see the world outside WMC. I mean Motz has posted info on AVS but it sounds like his experience is all with formats converted to work on the 360. I get the feeling nobody at Ceton really has any idea of how things work outside the WMC ecosystem, or what's available. And I don't think they really understand HT/power users needs/desires for things like native output switching and audio passthrough. I mean how they can get to the point they're at and not have AC3 passthrough, something IMO required for just ATSC/Cable TV is mind blowing.

I mean I keep coming back to that but releasing an extender, to support playback of HDTV, obviously on HDTVs, with only an HDMI output, and it only supporting 720p output and PCM2.0 output, I'm just speechless, especially when decoding DD to PCM should be harder than just passing it through as is.

They must be desperate. I think this is more of a niche product that techies would buy for themselves, rather than getting as a Christmas present, so I don't really see the need to get it out before the holidays. But, Ceton apparently thinks there's enough value there that they're willing to accept the risk of some bad-to-mediocre press coverage at launch. Maybe they figure their days as a CE company are numbered anyway, so they don't have as much to lose from a bad launch.

My only thought is they had a grand plan for the Q+Echo, and the shelving of the Q and possibly some hardware change/problem/delay with the Echo has left them scrambling to try and salvage some part of the project.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'm not really sure what happened, it seems like they were at least partially caught off guard by the chip they chose, which is only just becoming available. But that makes me wonder why they picked that chip in the first place. I mean it's like they just had their first internal software build that sort of works done in time for the public beta, like they just got the Echo themselves days or (few) weeks before. Why not pick a chip you can get at least samples of a couple months ahead of time.

I've been wondering the same thing. I strongly suspect the 720p output restriction and at least some of the playback bugs are Freescale bugs. Ceton is basically acting as Freescale's beta tester for this chip. It seems like an odd decision, unless Freescale is giving them a good deal.

Originally Posted by stanger89

The other thing I wonder, is I get the impression that (and I don't mean too much offense by this) that the folks at Ceton are WMC fanboys and can't see the world outside WMC.

Yep, I'm right there with you. That's why I'm nervous about how far Ceton is willing to go to get past the normal WMC extender restrictions.

Originally Posted by stanger89

My only thought is they had a grand plan for the Q+Echo, and the shelving of the Q and possibly some hardware change/problem/delay with the Echo has left them scrambling to try and salvage some part of the project.

Perhaps. As I said over on AVS, I'm skeptical they would have been able to make that many changes to the Q. They could control what splitters are onboard, so maybe things like MKV support would work out of the box, and they could skin it, but WMC intricacies would generally still apply.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by reggie14

... Perhaps. As I said over on AVS, I'm skeptical they would have been able to make that many changes to the Q. They could control what splitters are onboard, so maybe things like MKV support would work out of the box, and they could skin it, but WMC intricacies would generally still apply.

I have to disagree that the Q was going to be their savior, they could achieve just as much through a plugin, which is all they would be able to achive anyway. I think stanger hit the nail on the head with the chip release. I think that was the biggest downfall, and now their playing catch up.

As to the Skinning, they can't even support standard themes yet, there telling me the 360 is differant and not much more then that.

I know I 've been tough on them, tougher then most would like to read, but a public beta like this, really??? certianly a tough hole to crawl out of. I feel bad for them, bt then they shouldn't have promised so much. And got DTS to make press releases either. If it were not for that I would be a lot more forgiving.

I will most likely being eating my words in 6 months time, as the chip they chose can certainly pull off a lot.

Releasing in 2-3 weeks is just a joke. Not even 360 level at all. Down the line we'll see.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Right, it's crazy. I haven't set up my Echo yet (I just got it yesterday), but I've been surprised at the bugs I'm seeing reported by the testers. I don't think very many companies would move forward with a release under these conditions. But, Ceton appears to be set on sticking to their release schedule.

They must be desperate. I think this is more of a niche product that techies would buy for themselves, rather than getting as a Christmas present, so I don't really see the need to get it out before the holidays. But, Ceton apparently thinks there's enough value there that they're willing to accept the risk of some bad-to-mediocre press coverage at launch. Maybe they figure their days as a CE company are numbered anyway, so they don't have as much to lose from a bad launch.

Missed this one, the amout of stuff posted in the new tracker totally pulled all of the comments out of view and was containment for them. The bugs are still real just not posted about and Ceton get's to pick and choose what they will address. Some are just deleted.

Desperate, I would think so. Or as stanger said, real wmc fanboys and can't look out of the window and see the big brite world out side.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

I have to disagree that the Q was going to be their savior, they could achieve just as much through a plugin, which is all they would be able to achive anyway.

The only reason I still sort of think that is there were hints (if not outright statements at CES) that there would be more functionality with the Q.

I think stanger hit the nail on the head with the chip release. I think that was the biggest downfall, and now their playing catch up.

And the big question with that theory is what happened between CES and now? They had an Echo at CES, it's like they completely scrapped that and tried to develop something completely new for the "official" release. There's no obvious reason why they would do that, and why they would choose a chip that wasn't ready.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The only reason I still sort of think that is there were hints (if not outright statements at CES) that there would be more functionality with the Q.

Yep, they absolutly did say that. But that would still be the same thing as a plug-in. MCX code is not open for full modification and cost a pretty penny to get your hands on. The only way to modify anything ids through there plugin interface. unless they were going to use the embedded version, I heard that was very differant.

And the big question with that theory is what happened between CES and now? They had an Echo at CES, it's like they completely scrapped that and tried to develop something completely new for the "official" release. There's no obvious reason why they would do that, and why they would choose a chip that wasn't ready.

Yes, what happend. Completly differant look and feel from CES, and not to mention no YUV output. It does look like they redeisgned the whole thing over, and just made a few beta's with beta chips as they received them. Which would explain the state of the firmware completly. No time to tst anything. Which is exactly what I received when I first goto my Echo. Now their scrambling to catch up.

If that is the case, and look's like it is, their doing a great job, and we will have the next big thing, 6 months out.

But BS'ing everyone really sucks, and totaly looses all respect for them as a company. And the sad part is we will never know the truth, unless this developes into something. ANd even then it's pure speculation.

[Skybolt]

Well, only a few days util launch, and no major changes in weeks. This should be interesting to see how much they pull off by the end of the week, and what is not tested.