Ceton extender beta shipping in Sept

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I'm trying to create some test files to see what the Echo can and can't play back. Do you know of a good way to create some H.264 and VC-1 test files in a container format natively supported by WMC? I'm having trouble finding a VC-1 encoder and remuxers to WTV or MPG.

MS has a few apps that will covert to vc-1 (wmv advanced profile). I wrote a tool a few years ago that does it too (dvrms2towmvhd).

WMC supports mp4 well so that's an option (via handbrake). You can use todvrms to covert that to wtv if you want.

[Skybolt]

Ok, so there are two reviews on Amazon from 11/28 and a mistake from the 26th.

My Opinion is the latest FW release by Ceton is finally Beta worth and should be used to find defects at this point, certainly not RC material. And unless my unit has hardware defects, those with a high level of patience should only attempt usng it.

While I am not going to return my Echo, I am going to wait for another FW update to use it. Last night was painful at best.

And talking of puting ICS on this device when the rest of it is not working correctly is just plain crazy. Unless you don't know that ICS is there, it will be just another complication. JMO, but any sort of a dual boot won't help anyone, just complicate it.

Why they can't focus on getting a stable usable device to the GP first is beyond me.

[mguebert]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Ok, so there are two reviews on Amazon from 11/28 and a mistake from the 26th.

My Opinion is the latest FW release by Ceton is finally Beta worth and should be used to find defects at this point, certainly not RC material. And unless my unit has hardware defects, those with a high level of patience should only attempt usng it.

While I am not going to return my Echo, I am going to wait for another FW update to use it. Last night was painful at best.

And talking of puting ICS on this device when the rest of it is not working correctly is just plain crazy. Unless you don't know that ICS is there, it will be just another complication. JMO, but any sort of a dual boot won't help anyone, just complicate it.

Why they can't focus on getting a stable usable device to the GP first is beyond me.

I am really not 100% certain, as I am waiting on the sidelines hoping this turns into an acceptable replacement for Sage. Would it be that impossible to use ICS as the primary OS, it is my understanding (maybe wrong) that previous extenders from HP etc, ran linux and that the MCX protocol requires only and OS that is RDP capable.

So isn't it possible that ICS will be the OS and MCX protocol used to communicate with the WMC server?

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by mguebert

... So isn't it possible that ICS will be the OS and MCX protocol used to communicate with the WMC server?

That is exactly how it should be, much like XBMC will run on ICS. But there was talk of dual booting and not using ICS as an os but a streaming option. I think the Echo is running on a flavor of linux for ICS to even be discussed, so if Ceton brings the "Experience" into the MCx interface it would be awesome, but if not, a bit of a disaser, I think.

They mentioned the Playstore, so that leads me to believe seperate os's. I could be wrong, thats just an assumption on my part.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by mguebert

So isn't it possible that ICS will be the OS and MCX protocol used to communicate with the WMC server?

Yes. That is a possible way that it could work.

The MCX is a combination of RDP and sideband ES delivery. Any OS that can do that should be able to act as a MCX.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mguebert

I am really not 100% certain, as I am waiting on the sidelines hoping this turns into an acceptable replacement for Sage. Would it be that impossible to use ICS as the primary OS, it is my understanding (maybe wrong) that previous extenders from HP etc, ran linux and that the MCX protocol requires only and OS that is RDP capable.

So isn't it possible that ICS will be the OS and MCX protocol used to communicate with the WMC server?

It seems awful late in the game to be changing the OS your MCX runs on.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by stanger89

It seems awful late in the game to be changing the OS your MCX runs on.

What OS does the Echo run?

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by babgvant

What OS does the Echo run?

I inadvertenly possed that question on the Ceton forums, by asking if the SOC was win embedded based, and was told it absolutly is not. So that only leaves some flavor of Linux?

from the Frescale site:

"Broad operating system support includes Android™, Linux® and Windows® Embedded (via third-party)."

If it's Android, it's still a flavor of the Linux kernal.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

I inadvertenly possed that question on the Ceton forums, by asking if the SOC was win embedded based, and was told it absolutly is not. So that only leaves some flavor of Linux?

from the Frescale site:

"Broad operating system support includes Android™, Linux® and Windows® Embedded (via third-party)."

If it's Android, it's still a flavor of the Linux kernal.

My point was that the OS the Echo is currently running isn't publicly known. Also, as you note the Freescale SOC (i.MX6) in the box supports Android.

There's a lot we don't know about how it will work, and what specific benefits it will bring. All we have is speculation at this point.

[stanger89]

Well if they're adding Android ICS, that implies it's not Android ICS currently. They could always just have to expose it, guess we'll find out at some point.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by babgvant

My point was that the OS the Echo is currently running isn't publicly known. Also, as you note the Freescale SOC (i.MX6) in the box supports Android.

Understood, What we don't know is whether the chip is a single. dual or quad core Cortex -A9. I never got an answer on that either.

We're splitting hairs here. Android is just a shell OS running on top of Linux. Linux also supports MCx as you have pointed out.

There's a lot we don't know about how it will work, and what specific benefits it will bring. All we have is speculation at this point.

So, So true. But isn't that a part of what forums are about, to discuss and speculate? Because unless a rep from Ceton steps in, that's all it wil ever be.

And to be honest, I don't think they know where this is going. The Echo project has drastically changed at somepoint form there original design and I think it just came backtogether very recently. Which accounts for the state everything is in. JMO, obviously.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Understood, What we don't know is whether the chip is a single. dual or quad core Cortex -A9. I never got an answer on that either.

Ceton hasn't said, but I have a pretty good guess after seeing it naked

Originally Posted by Skybolt

So, So true. But isn't that a part of what forums are about, to discuss and speculate? Because unless a rep from Ceton steps in, that's all it wil ever be.

There are different kinds of speculation. Generally I don't think it's useful to engage in the wild, uninformed variety. It can be entertaining, but often leads to an unproductive disconnect b/w expectations and reality as well as muddled recollections around capability (or lack thereof) or how complex things work.

Originally Posted by Skybolt

And to be honest, I don't think they know where this is going. The Echo project has drastically changed at somepoint form there original design and I think it just came backtogether very recently. Which accounts for the state everything is in. JMO, obviously.

I disagree, but it's hard for me to comment further here.

[cncb]

Originally Posted by babgvant

The SOC changed (I need to find out if it supports HBR), but two things should be clear: they were unwilling to commit to features like HBR support, codecs, etc., and a lot was unknown.

Please find out and let us know if you can. If this thing is never going to support blu-ray rips (MKVs) I will stop wasting my time.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by cncb

Please find out and let us know if you can. If this thing is never going to support blu-ray rips (MKVs) I will stop wasting my time.

According to the product brief the i.MX6 supports HDMI 1.4.

It specifically calls out 3D video support, but doesn't mention HBR. HDMI 1.4 includes that feature though, not sure why it's left out.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Ceton hasn't said, but I have a pretty good guess after seeing it naked

Eric has said he can't recall, but htinks it is a dual core? Can you comment on that?

There are different kinds of speculation. Generally I don't think it's useful to engage in the wild, uninformed variety. It can be entertaining, but often leads to an unproductive disconnect b/w expectations and reality as well as muddled recollections around capability (or lack thereof) or how complex things work.

Not sure how to take that, but I don't think anything said to this point is that exagerated or wild. The echo has changed drasticaly since your write up.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Eric has said he can't recall, but htinks it is a dual core? Can you comment on that?

I'd rather save comments for the review, took some pictures last night.

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Not sure how to take that, but I don't think anything said to this point is that exagerated or wild.

I wasn't just speaking to this thread, although it seems that many of the "problems*" w/ the Echo are with the unreasonable expectations sourced from unknown origins. Informed speculation is fine, but IMO unfounded speculation presented as fact (term is used loosely here, can't think of a better word off hand) is an issue because not everyone who stumbles upon it will be able to discern the difference.

* that is not to say that there aren't legitimate stability issues w/ the Echo

Originally Posted by Skybolt

The echo has changed drasticaly since your write up.

The form factor has changed, but the current capability is consistent with what I was originally told.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by babgvant

The form factor has changed, but the current capability is consistent with what I was originally told.

We were led to believe by one of the Ceton guys that Echo would have pretty good support for imported media from various "Internet sources" (as I believed he worded it). Many of us interpreted that to mean good container and A/V decoder support. I now understand the container issue is more complicated than that, but that doesn't explain the problems people are having with H.264 and VC-1 video and 1080i playback.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by reggie14

We were led to believe by one of the Ceton guys that Echo would have pretty good support for imported media from various "Internet sources" (as I believed he worded it). Many of us interpreted that to mean good container and A/V decoder support.

Where, and are you sure that wasn't when using a Q?

Originally Posted by reggie14

I now understand the container issue is more complicated than that, but that doesn't explain the problems people are having with H.264 and VC-1 video and 1080i playback.

Support for non TV container formats sucks on MCX. It is an artifact of the implementation.

Like I said previously, there are issues and I'm not apologizing for that at all but the is a distinction b/w real issues and unmet, unrealistic expectations.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Where, and are you sure that wasn't when using a Q?

Eric from Ceton posted the following message on AVS in February: "My test matrix includes making sure that video content from *cough*popular internet sources *cough* plays properly."

I do see your point. I think I originally had unrealistic expectations given the limitations of WMC. I didn't realize until recently how splitters worked in WMC. I just assumed WMC was streaming the file like Sage does. Still, I think the Echo has a long way to go. The problems with 1080i playback and high-bitrate videos appear to be entirely Ceton's fault. The fact that two major features- 1080i/p output and bitstreaming- came out a couple days before release indicate the thing still isn't that well tested. It really looks like they were/are rushing the thing to release. I don't think they did what they intended to do in the beta. I thought they wanted to get the Echo in the hands of people running different kinds of hardware/software combinations, playing back different media, and identify bugs that they wouldn't ordinarily detect in a lab. Instead it seemed like they were playing catch-up with bugs they either knew about or should have known about.

Given the hardware that's available today, I don't see why it should have been unreasonable to expect nearly perfect playback of 1080i material and pretty decent support for high-bitrate video (given proper container support).

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by babgvant

I disagree, but it's hard for me to comment further here.

I smell an NDA