Ceton extender beta shipping in Sept

[drewg]

Originally Posted by reggie14

People following the AVS thread know this already, but Ceton and Freescale seemed to have resolved the issues with interlaced video playback.

Any idea how it handles interlaced, telecined video (eg, 24fps "film" material, broadcast at a full 24 fps, with mpeg2 Repeat Field Flags to bring it up to 1080i/30) ? This will often mess up poor deinterlacers. This is one of the reasons I switched to SageTV ... my MythTV front end would not play recordings like this accurately (it kept complaining that the video was ahead of the audio, and the playback speed varied, since it ignored the repeat flags). My HD100 and HD300 never had any issues with this..

I wish I still had a sample, but I moved away from the market where I saw this about a year ago & the broadcasters here either have older encoders, or are not nearly as adventurous with their settings as WRAL and WNCN were in RDU..

Drew

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by drewg

Any idea how it handles interlaced, telecined video (eg, 24fps "film" material, broadcast at a full 24 fps, with mpeg2 Repeat Field Flags to bring it up to 1080i/30) ?

Cadence detection is still broken so there is still some room for improvement. The current approach creates 1080p60 from 1080i so it is smooth and the shredding is gone, but there will be DI artifacts like moire until they get that sorted out.

I haven't noticed issues w/ A/V sync, but obviously the fix is still very new so more testing is required.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by drewg

Any idea how it handles interlaced, telecined video (eg, 24fps "film" material, broadcast at a full 24 fps, with mpeg2 Repeat Field Flags to bring it up to 1080i/30) ? This will often mess up poor deinterlacers.

I got the update late, late last night, so my testing was limited to a few minutes.

Any suggestions on how to test the issue you raised?

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by reggie14

People following the AVS thread know this already, but Ceton and Freescale seemed to have resolved the issues with interlaced video playback. Scaling is still problematic, but Ceton implemented a native resolution switching option. It always deinterlaces interlaced video, but it won't scale it.

I tried it out briefly late last night. Video playback quality is much, much improved. General performance/responsiveness in the menus seems to have improved also.

How did you get the latest, nothing was available this morning?

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

How did you get the latest, nothing was available this morning?

The update went out to OMEGA (pre-Beta) users last night. Should be available to everyone in the Beta stream now.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by babgvant

The update went out to OMEGA (pre-Beta) users last night. ...

Didn't know there was such a group. Thought beta tester were that group, but since Ceton released 11/26 - are all Echo users considered Beta now and pre-release beta testers are?

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Didn't know there was such a group. Thought beta tester were that group, but since Ceton released 11/26 - are all Echo users considered Beta now and pre-release beta testers are?

AFAIK it's an opt-in group. I asked to be included after the review went up.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I got the update late, late last night, so my testing was limited to a few minutes.

Any suggestions on how to test the issue you raised?

Unless your local broadcaster does this, I don't think so. Eg, I don't have any recordings with this feature any more. You can use the "xport" tool from dr1394's site (http://www.w6rz.net/) & his "flags" to analyze one of your recordings to see if your broadcaster is doing this.

Alternatively, he's got a sample transport stream file (http://www.w6rz.net/vertrezivtcflags.zip) that you might be able to use, but I don't know how you'd import it as a recording into WMC. Maybe babgvant has a tool? It is supposed to play back w/o artifacts, with the moving line smooth, and no flashing of the background lines. This works for me when I have 1080i output on both my HD300 & HD100, but does not work with 1080p output selected. It also works on my (linux) computer with VLC's "ivtv" deinterlace method.

Drew

[reggie14]

I'll try. Maybe I can get it working after I install the Shark007 plugin.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by drewg

(http://www.w6rz.net/vertrezivtcflags.zip) that you might be able to use, but I don't know how you'd import it as a recording into WMC. Maybe babgvant has a tool? It is supposed to play back w/o artifacts, with the moving line smooth, and no flashing of the background lines. This works for me when I have 1080i output on both my HD300 & HD100, but does not work with 1080p output selected. It also works on my (linux) computer with VLC's "ivtv" deinterlace method.

Drew

That's a tough sample .

[drewg]

Originally Posted by babgvant

That's a tough sample .

Yep. I was surprised when my HD300 failed at 1080p .. it is usually pretty good.

Is there any way to import a transport stream like that into WMC & trick WMC into thinking that it is a recording? I wanted to try this in a WMC / extender setup w/o mucking around with codec packs, demuxes, etc.

Thanks,

Drew

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by drewg

Is there any way to import a transport stream like that into WMC & trick WMC into thinking that it is a recording?

http://babgvant.com/downloads/vertrezivtcflags.zip

I doubt the Echo will be able to handle it.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by babgvant

http://babgvant.com/downloads/vertrezivtcflags.zip

I doubt the Echo will be able to handle it.

Wow, thanks. I actually wanted to see how well the xbox360 did.. Do I just drop it in the recordings folder & restart?

Drew

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by drewg

Wow, thanks. I actually wanted to see how well the xbox360 did.. Do I just drop it in the recordings folder & restart?

Drew

Should just need to drop it in and wait a few seconds for WMC to find the file.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Should just need to drop it in and wait a few seconds for WMC to find the file.

OK, cool. The Xbox360 plays it in WMC extender mode, but has the same flashing artifact that my HDx00 has at 1080p. It would be interesting to hear if the Ceton worked..

Drew

[reggie14]

I gave it a try. It doesn't look right to me. The line moves fairly smooth, but there is heavy artifacting around the line as it moves. The thin black lines seem to be coming through every other frame or so, but I'm having trouble figuring out if that is just a visual illusion.

I can't get VLC to play it back correctly on my Windows machine, even when I set it to use the IVTV deinterlace mode, but its even worse in WMP.

[cncb]

I am getting so frustrated by this. I would like to take advantage of the extended warranty and get 3 of these for where I had 3 HD300s before but it almost seems like they don't want to sell many by leaving us in the dark about several issues. This should probably be a case study somewhere about how not to do a product launch.

I know they say they are working on Windows 8 support but have left open the possibility that it may never come and I can't test these at all until it is supported.

I guess DTS support is in the "plan" but still no real commitment from them and this is a requirement for me. It is also pretty frustrating that they didn't include simple analog audio output which will require me to get AVRs for 2 locations where I have simple and small analog "t-amps" driving external speakers.

I guess I could just buy 3 now and wait out the extended return period but this could potentially be pretty wasteful and should be unnecessary at this point in the "release".

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by cncb

... I guess I could just buy 3 now and wait out the extended return period but this could potentially be pretty wasteful and should be unnecessary at this point in the "release".

Especially since we don't know where they are headed on Ripped content support. As of today, the 360 out performs the Echo without breaking a sweat. Hopefully tomorrow the opposite can be said.

+1 on the frustration, I have basically given up trying to contribute as a beta tester and taken a sideline approach. They only seem to listen to or cater to the ones who publish and or are fanboys around the net.

[nycjoe]

Sorry to bring back this topic.. I just went over some of the recent posts on the avs forum thread.. I'm speechless. The echo sounds awful.

I sort of gave up on it after I saw the sorry state of their mobile app but they seem pretty unprofessional. Ceton should just concede that they can't do it.

Thank goodness SageTV is so stable - extenders don't fail me now.

[reggie14]

Awful is a bit strong, I think. It's certainly a disappointment. And it was awful at launch, but its improved since then.

Still, I don't have much confidence in the Echo at this point. I just submitted a support ticket to return mine.