Ceton extender beta shipping in Sept

[stanger89]

At this point, unless the Echo makes a huge turn around, if I become unable to use Sage, I'll probably switch back to satellite, probably DTV with a Genie/HR34. I don't see any benefit to WMC with entirely DRM'd content over a Hopper or HR34. Other than the "fun" of dealing with a PC's quirks.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by stanger89

At this point, unless the Echo makes a huge turn around, if I become unable to use Sage, I'll probably switch back to satellite, probably DTV with a Genie/HR34. I don't see any benefit to WMC with entirely DRM'd content over a Hopper or HR34. Other than the "fun" of dealing with a PC's quirks.

I am also disappointed in the initial beta of the Echo, it seems to be a smaller xbox.

But if you switch to something like the HR34, you don't get your recordings the way you want them anyway. You could always put 7MC in a VM and alot of issues go away. I only becomes a source for the Echo/xbox to connect to. And your recorded shows are pretty much the same as the HR34 system no?

[stanger89]

That's really my point, if all your recordings are DRM'd what makes WMC different than an HR34 or Hopper? You can't do comskip (well actually the Hopper can, so +1 Hopper), you can't "archive" your recordings, both support external hard drives if you want to go that route.

Essentially what's the difference between locked down WMC and locked down HR34/Hopper? Pretty much just the interface and the fact that WMC is on a PC with PC tuners and PC issues. Heck the HR34/Genie has intelligent recording even which WMC doesn't.

So why would I want to fumble with HDHR driver/firmware updates, Ceton driver issues, WMC flakyness when I can just buy (lease) an HR34/Hopper from a superior provider (way more HD channels) that's fully tested and fully integrated with that provider.... Especially if I'm going to need another box anyway for my ripped media.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by stanger89

That's really my point, if all your recordings are DRM'd what makes WMC different than an HR34 or Hopper? You can't do comskip (well actually the Hopper can, so +1 Hopper), you can't "archive" your recordings, both support external hard drives if you want to go that route.

Essentially what's the difference between locked down WMC and locked down HR34/Hopper? Pretty much just the interface and the fact that WMC is on a PC with PC tuners and PC issues. Heck the HR34/Genie has intelligent recording even which WMC doesn't.

So why would I want to fumble with HDHR driver/firmware updates, Ceton driver issues, WMC flakyness when I can just buy (lease) an HR34/Hopper from a superior provider (way more HD channels) that's fully tested and fully integrated with that provider.... Especially if I'm going to need another box anyway for my ripped media.

And that is why if my sage system dies for some reason I'll just put my dtv box in my HT and grab a dune or something and call it a day. Not worth starting a new HTPC system from the ground up. I only mess with sage because I love it so much and have invested so much time into it.

[Skybolt]

I have every thing on one box, Sage right now is on it's own giganto server, but my new foot print will be a single VM server. Everything accessed via IP including tv tunners with the prime and HDHR's, these being on there own network for WMC since the stream is passed through WMC. It seems to work real well so far. And I don't have to mess with ANY drivers being in a VM. Only the 7MC configuration.

If it were not for the VM option I would not even consider 7MC, I totally agree with your logic of wanting to lease the HR34 like system and not have to manage another OS. But no driver hell here. Only had to load the Prime service and config 7MC, a few hoops to get that working right but no big deal.

[cncb]

They are handling the beta launch of this very poorly. They won't answer simple questions about its capabilities. They seem to be happier to have beta testers answer these questions for others which could lead to conflicting or erroneous reports. Do they not know the answers? Did they not even test these things? It does not give me optimism for the future of the Echo.

[Skybolt]

That's already happening with file formats and no one is stepping in. One person states (Motz from Ceton) that you need to convert to M2TS and another from avs could not get it to work, very confusing. I am going to try on the xbox in hopes that when I receive the Echo it will work ...

[stanger89]

And early on Eric (IMO strongly) implied that it would play "popular" formats in direct response to my question of if it would handle TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, but that's apparently not the case. I wonder if they realized they way-oversold it's capabilities (or were banking on the Q to be the basis for the expanded capabilities) and now don't really want to admit they're not going to hit that lofty goal.

[Skybolt]

Exactly, If the Q was key to there design, they could just offer up those capabilities as an addon to 7MC. Then there support is complete.

And who knows maybe thier planning on that. To soomn to tell, because maybe there also planning to build there own media center, you never know.

[nycjoe]

I personally was very interested in the Echo when I first heard about it, but I quickly lost interest for a few reasons

- the companion app looked pretty lame
- Ceton is obviously not meeting their deadlines
- WMC has one foot in the grave. I actually posted a question about this on AVS to which someone from Ceton replied "nah - WMC will be supported until win7 EOL." (a few weeks later, they announce that the Q is cancelled)
- WMC is windows (yuck)

Perhaps the Echo will be more polished sometime next year after a few upgrades, but it seems to me that Ceton doesn't have the talent to do that. Tying themselves to WMC is probably the wrong direction to be headed.

Maybe Ceton can bring Jeff on board to work on a viable product when this absurd KC project finally goes away, who knows.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by nycjoe

... Maybe Ceton can bring Jeff on board to work on a viable product when this absurd KC project finally goes away, who knows.

Wouldn't that be Gem!

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Wouldn't that be Gem!

No, he should then just pick up where he left off in June of 2011. Look at this discussion on how the Ceton Echo is inferior and more expensive than the 2+ year old HD-300. He, and more importantly we, would be much farther ahead resuming Sage as it was at that time.

[cncb]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I wonder if they realized they way-oversold it's capabilities (or were banking on the Q to be the basis for the expanded capabilities) and now don't really want to admit they're not going to hit that lofty goal.

Not to mention the official press release from DTS in April promising the Echo to be the first WMC extender to support DTS surround sound. Apparently they can just ignore it and now say they "hope" to add DTS support like it never happened...

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

I have every thing on one box, Sage right now is on it's own giganto server, but my new foot print will be a single VM server. Everything accessed via IP including tv tunners with the prime and HDHR's, these being on there own network for WMC since the stream is passed through WMC. It seems to work real well so far. And I don't have to mess with ANY drivers being in a VM. Only the 7MC configuration.

If it were not for the VM option I would not even consider 7MC, I totally agree with your logic of wanting to lease the HR34 like system and not have to manage another OS. But no driver hell here. Only had to load the Prime service and config 7MC, a few hoops to get that working right but no big deal.

Skybolt, can you elaborate on this VM stuff? I also have my sage server in a giant server case that is vertically rackmounted in my walkin closet. I was thinking about downsizing to something smaller myself as we are moving into a new house in December. I'll still have to have a separate NAS to access my media though... Just trying to figure out how to make everything smaller but still keep the same result of using my HD-300's.

Just curious on what your build plan is. I might steal it!

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by nycjoe

Maybe Ceton can bring Jeff on board to work on a viable product when this absurd KC project finally goes away, who knows.

I'd rather just see them roll Google Fiber DVR out to non-Google Fiber customers, ie re-lauch SageTV under Google branding.

[nycjoe]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'd rather just see them roll Google Fiber DVR out to non-Google Fiber customers, ie re-lauch SageTV under Google branding.

I wish (read: we all wish), but what possible motivation does google have to support playback of DVDs, blurays, and the many other media types that SageTV chewed through? Anything that doesn't come from google play or your cable provider is in competition with the service they would like to provide.

Granted, if any company would opensource a product after using it, google would be it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. HP opensourcing webos was a rarity.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by Biggen

Skybolt, can you elaborate on this VM stuff? ... Just trying to figure out how to make everything smaller but still keep the same result of using my HD-300's.

Just curious on what your build plan is. I might steal it!

Well, I am not sure about keeping the HD300's as I was not able to put Sage into a Hyper-V VM, you need to run ESXi for that.

I do have 7MC in a vm which works real well, I also have XP Pro, 2011 SBS and 2003 server running as well. As well as Myth and WHS 20011/2008. The last three are not running all of the time as they are used for testing.

MY new build is going to be a super micro dual xeon processor with 64gb ram. I am duplicating what I have running at work which does our weekly builds on 8 differant OS's. This runs on top of 2008 R2.

I have been running 7Mc in a VM since las tmay without an issue, using only xbox's as clients. I highly recoment this setup, the OS is basicaly just a passthrough for the clients.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Well, I am not sure about keeping the HD300's as I was not able to put Sage into a Hyper-V VM, you need to run ESXi for that.

I do have 7MC in a vm which works real well, I also have XP Pro, 2011 SBS and 2003 server running as well. As well as Myth and WHS 20011/2008. The last three are not running all of the time as they are used for testing.

MY new build is going to be a super micro dual xeon processor with 64gb ram. I am duplicating what I have running at work which does our weekly builds on 8 differant OS's. This runs on top of 2008 R2.

I have been running 7Mc in a VM since las tmay without an issue, using only xbox's as clients. I highly recoment this setup, the OS is basicaly just a passthrough for the clients.

Ahh, I got ya. Why do you run VM? Is it to play/test with multiple OS'es without building more servers?

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by Biggen

Ahh, I got ya. Why do you run VM? Is it to play/test with multiple OS'es without building more servers?

Yes, it can be that, but I also have my wifes bis. server in a VM as well, along with exchange and SQL svr. And if they get hacked, I just roll the original file back. The trick is to have a good file storage system. I use the host OS to manage that, along with DHCP and the like. I have 2008 R2 installed on an SSD and can back it up with Acronis because it is not mirrored. I also have a spare MB, so this system should last me for a while.

Virtual Machines offer alot, WMC is now backedup and redundent(Mirrored) by default. If anything happens I just replace the OS with he backedup file and I am working again. Also It stops me from having multiple physical machines up and runing. I can't see runig any other way ever again. Sage was going to be in a VM and I was going to use the HDHR prime for my tunners, then I learned about the Flags used in cable cards. Then Google, and well now I am off to 7MC.

The only time VM's get in the way with Hyper-V is when you need to attach to physical hardware that is not IP based. 7MC is the perfect OS to put in a VM, you can mess with it all you want and just put the original file back and your right back where you started in minutes. The only real limitation is you need to use IP based tuners, so the HDHR Prime is perfect for that.

If you want to discuss more, we should start a new thread.

[Skybolt]

Hot off the presses at TGB from Motz:

http://cetoncorp.com/blog/more-details-on-ceton-echo/