SageTV Still the Best

[IVB]

Sigh. I suppose this thread should be retitled "Sage is as good as we can ever hope to get, stupid DRM".

[phelme]

I was actually a bit shocked when I heard the numbers of alternative streamers this weekend. Apple TV has like 13 million in the field and number two Roku, has 8 million. That's only ~20 million units.

You have to figure between satellite and cable there must be over well 150 million "conventional" STB's. Cord cutting really hasn't caught on that much. And I bet a lot of people who have that cable/satellite service also have Roku/Apple TV.

Of course as the "raised on Internet" generation gets older that should change in favor of streamers.

Eh. I've realized I've ignored Netflix, which is huge and it's own beast.

[IVB]

the funny thing is that my kids as a rule will not watch SageTV, they stream netflix or huluplus on their chromebooks.

Although now that we reattached the cord, the 12 year old has discovered "Full House". Yes, from back in the day.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by phelme

I was actually a bit shocked when I heard the numbers of alternative streamers this weekend. Apple TV has like 13 million in the field and number two Roku, has 8 million. That's only ~20 million units.

You have to figure between satellite and cable there must be over well 150 million "conventional" STB's. Cord cutting really hasn't caught on that much. And I bet a lot of people who have that cable/satellite service also have Roku/Apple TV.

Of course as the "raised on Internet" generation gets older that should change in favor of streamers.

Eh. I've realized I've ignored Netflix, which is huge and it's own beast.

I've been arguing exactly this for years but few here seem to side with me.

Everyone here is at least somewhat (if not full-on) "techie" and many are completely surrounded by like-minded folks (friends, co-workers). Many here forget that there are still hundreds of millions who just pay for cable monthly and have ZERO interest in cutting the cord, or even reading an article about what options would be available if they did.... much less learning how to do it. Some people won't buy a Roku because "it costs too much" but will pay $50/month to cable because they've just been raised paying it and don't think anything of it. "Necessary evil" or whatever.

And there are people like my parents: my mom barely watches any TV, dad sits down in front of ESPN every night, no matter what is on, and even though he rarely cares about the teams being shown. Yet they pay nearly $100 a month for cable (HD, no less, even though they don't care whether it's HD or not), just because it's what they've always done and they sorta expect to have all those channels available if they would choose to watch them. They've got a good 20 years left in them and I don't see them learning how to use a Roku so they can save money someday.

Change.....is.....slow.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

The people here are among the best I have come across anywhere. The biggest reason I still frequent this forum.

Yeah, definitely true. There are very few forums that have the kind of technological minds that you will find here.

[will]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Many here forget that there are still hundreds of millions who just pay for cable monthly and have ZERO interest in cutting the cord, or even reading an article about what options would be available if they did.... much less learning how to do it.

If I could get all the programs I like to watch, in as-good-as-cable HD quality, with comskipping, and in a system like SageTV were the vendor just can't remove the content one day because a licensing deal expired, then I would "cut the cord." But honestly, I don't like paying $110 ($180 if you include internet), but I enjoy the shows I get on the science channel and HBO which you can't get easily in other places.

Also, I don't want to have to use four devices, or spend time tracking down files to download, and different Apps or services to get to content. In 2013 it is a lot of work to cut the cord, especially when you are coming from a system as awesome as SageTV.

Honestly, if I could just get smaller packages of channels, I would be much happier. But I bet if cable companies went a la carte they would find a way to structure the packages so you end up paying as much or more than you do now.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by will

Honestly, if I could just get smaller packages of channels, I would be much happier. But I bet if cable companies went a la carte they would find a way to structure the packages so you end up paying as much or more than you do now.

There was an excellent article I read sometime this year that explained why channel bundling works well for all the corporations involved and why it isn't likely to change in the near term. It made sense to me at the time... wish I could find it again.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

... Many here forget that there are still hundreds of millions who just pay for cable monthly and have ZERO interest in cutting the cord, or even reading an article about what options would be available if they did.... much less learning how to do it. ...

Not to argue with this but, many of the techies here also have no interest in cutting the cord, I mean what's the real point? You still need an internet feed, so that cable is still reaching the house some how.

Change.....is.....slow.

Yes. but you also have to want it.

[begin rant]
I really don't understand why "Cutting the Cord" matters to some, is it just the simple fact you don't want to pay for some of what is free? There has got to be more to it than that.

I mean I pay ~$100/month for "All of the channels" that is not going to break the bank if I keep paying it, it is also not going to fill the bank up if I don't.

I pay another $100/month for iNet and a telephone I never use. That cord I would like to cut, but how do you do that when iNet is basically a necessity these days.
[/end rant]

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by will

If I could get all the programs I like to watch, in as-good-as-cable HD quality, with comskipping, and in a system like SageTV were the vendor just can't remove the content one day because a licensing deal expired, then I would "cut the cord." But honestly, I don't like paying $110 ($180 if you include internet), but I enjoy the shows I get on the science channel and HBO which you can't get easily in other places.

I'm curious, how many people here really archive everything (or even a significant percentage) of what they record?

I guess what I'm getting at is most streaming is commercial free, I suppose Hulu (non-plus) isn't but Netflix/Amazon are. So the commercial skip is really a moot point. As far as stuff getting removed, it seems to me like that's really only a significant issue if you archive a significant portion of what you watch.

The reason I say that is, lets just use your numbers, $110/mo for cable, that's $1320/year. Looking at amazon quick, it seems most shows on Blu-ray are less than $50/season. That means for the same yearly cost as your cable bill, you could buy over 26 seasons of TV shows on Blu-ray, commercial free and in better than cable quality (no tickers, no scrolls, lossless audio, less compression).

How many here archive 26 shows a year?

FWIW, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I just know my mind has changed/opened over the years. At one point I thought I should never delete anything, then I realized most of that stuff I never go back and watch.

I've also realized that the overall quality of something I've recorded just isn't there for stuff I really want to keep around. From tickers, scrolls, logos, audio, video compression, glitches in recordings, strange edits, etc, if it's something I really want to keep, it's worth getting on Blu-ray rather than archiving the recordings.

Wow, I rambled, I guess the point I'm getting at, is think about what your TV costs, what you get for it, where else you can get it from, and look at the whole package.

I did this a while back when Fiber came to my neighborhood. I had Dish and was quite happy since nearly every channel was available in HD. But I had to take a serious look because I could get TV and internet over Fiber for the cost of just my Dish bill. The dilemma was I would give up many channels in HD, so I sat down and looked at what I really cared about. The conclusion I came too was for the stuff that I really cared about, that wouldn't be in HD on my Fiber service (Doctor Who and Top Gear) I could just buy on Amazon in HD, and I'd still be way ahead cost wise. So I switched back to "cable".

Also, I don't want to have to use four devices, or spend time tracking down files to download, and different Apps or services to get to content. In 2013 it is a lot of work to cut the cord, especially when you are coming from a system as awesome as SageTV.

It really depends on what you watch, I really think I may be able to cut the cord by the time my current service agreement ends. Somehow I've gone from having nearly everything I watch being on "cable" channels to most being on the major networks. I could go OTA, or more realistically just going to the very basic cable service with my Fiber internet, and getting the rest online or on Blu-ray.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

[begin rant]
I really don't understand why "Cutting ht eCord" matters to some, is it just the simple fact yo don't want to pay for some of what is free? There has got to be more to it than that.

I mean I pay ~$100/month for "All of the channels" that is not going to break the bank if I keep paying it, it is also not going to fill the bank up if I don't.

I pay another $100/month for iNet and a telephone I never use. That cord I would like to cut, but how do you do that when iNet is basically a necessity these days.
[/end rant]

I have no real desire to cut the cord (I know there are some that see it like a quest) but I may do it sooner than later. The reason is when I look at what it costs for what I get. I have no home phone because it makes no sense when I'm paying for my cell, and I'm really not getting much out of my cable channels since Sci-Fi and Discovery went down the tubes (I don't know if discovery really has but I don't record much off there anymore). Maybe within the next year I'll par my "cable" service back to internet and whatever flavor of TV makes the bill the least.

[will]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'm curious, how many people here really archive everything (or even a significant percentage) of what they record?

I definitely don't archive everything. We probably delete 90% of the shows we watch after watching them. What I was referencing before is that shows can be "taken away" from you before you even had a chance to watch them. Right now I have about 24 days worth of TV shows recorded so it will take me some time to get to them.

Originally Posted by stanger89

I guess what I'm getting at is most streaming is commercial free, I suppose Hulu (non-plus) isn't but Netflix/Amazon are. So the commercial skip is really a moot point.

Netflix/Amazon are only good for older content so you are back to commercials with Hulu Plus and sometimes you can't get a TV show on blu-ray, some new shows are only released to DVD so you have to buy them through iTunes with their almost blu-ray HD and DRM...

Originally Posted by stanger89

It really depends on what you watch, I really think I may be able to cut the cord by the time my current service agreement ends.

Totally agree. I'm a total news junky and would miss having access to the three major cable news networks. Right now, there is just some content that is hard to get online and this might change but I have a feeling the cable companies will be major players still in 15 or 20 years. There is just too much money involved to let it all go to Hulu Plus or Netflix for $10/month.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

I mean I pay ~$100/month for "All of the channels" that is not going to break the bank if I keep paying it, it is also not going to fill the bank up if I don't.

I pay another $100/month for iNet and a telephone I never use. That cord I would like to cut, but how do you do that when iNet is basically a necessity these days.

That's quite the "1%" argument you're making there... "$2400 a year doesn't really matter to me one way or the other"

I am being a little tongue-in-cheek, because I realize that, for the most part (just based on what I see here with people talking about what they spend on their systems), people on this forum have money (or at least charge it and live in debt).

For us (due to our specific personal situation), we've been trying to drop monthly bills. We cut the cord ~6 years ago to drop our DirecTV bill that was, at the time, "only" $65/mo. Granted, what I've spent on SageTV total since that day probably adds up to 2-3 years' worth of TV bills, but hey, that still means I've saved a few grand.

Our household is different from many here, though. We don't have any "need" for anything on cable. We just plain miss all the great cable shows (from Sopranos to Mad Men to Game of Thrones). Shortly after cutting the cord, we had our first kid, so we don't have a lot of free time - when the TV is on during the day, it's on their stuff (there is a lot of great stuff on PBS Kids, they don't miss Nick/Disney at all because they never had it). My wife and I almost exclusively watch network sitcoms together, so after the kids are down, we watch a few in the evenings if we can. And even with that, we still struggle to watch everything. We've never archived shows, we watch and delete (I remember thinking, back when DVD players came out and people started buying seasons of shows, "when are you ever going to watch those again??"). If someday, when the kids are older, we find ourselves wanting to go back and watch The Sopranos or something, every single season is available at our local library on DVD... for free.

I love sports but I have found that I barely have time to watch anyway - and if I want to watch something not on network TV, I have my parents' cable password to use "Watch ESPN" or else plugins through PlayOn to get, um, "other" sports content.

As for "needing" HD content, most of our watching is done on a 40" TV, so with upscaling it looks acceptable. Even shows my wife pulls down from PlayOn (HGTV stuff, Top Chef, whatever) that often comes in 300-something lines of resolution, looks fine - good enough that the lack of quality isn't a problem (she doesn't even care about HD anyway ). And I suffer through the occasional low-quality live sports stream because I watch so infrequently that it's not worth $100/mo. to get it in HD.

Long story short, the DVR capability of SageTV is probably 90% of our household use, but we still have no need for cable.

[tmiranda]

I am a techie and I have no interest in "cutting the cord". I am willing to pay just over $100 per month for TV and high speed internet. I don't like hunting Netflix, Hulu, Roku, Boxee, PlayOn etc for various shows - I want them all in one place. If somebody comes up with a true single appliance that plugs into the internet and gets all the content I can get from cable then I'll consider it.

[wayner]

In our house Sage is used for recording kids' shows and sports and for watching "ripped" movies, most of which are kids movies. My 12 year old daughter also uses her iPad a lot to watch kids shows on Netflix. She is autistic and likes shows that are for a somewhat younger audience.

The kids' shows are all archived as they are watched repeatedly, and the sports (hockey, golf, basketball) are watched and deleted or (more likely) deleted without ever being watched. But if you like sports you are stuck with cable.

What I don't like about streaming services is that you never know when you are going to lose content. Nickjr content on Netflix is a case in point. The one place where Netflix's content rocked was for kids shows. But about 6 months ago Netflix contract with Nickjr expired so that content has moved to Amazon. So I now pay $8/month for both Netflix and Amazon.

I personally like to watch sports and the most useful thing in Sage is the SkipFwd and SkipFwdx2 buttons. I can watch content in other UIs but rarely does it have th skip fucntionality that Sage does, especially for video playback apps on the iPad.

I am thinking of buying a Win8 tablet for Sage playback since I assume it should work exactly like an extender or PC. And the playback of Sage content on the iPad isn't great, especially for 1080i content, and skipping forward causes long delays or kills the stream.

Someone mentioned bundling in this thread. It is going to be harder to get rid of bundling now that we are moving to a world where the some company owns the channels and the cable company - think Comcast (especially if they buy Time Warner Cable). We have had that situation for a while here in Canada where Bell, Rogers, Shaw and Quebecor are the main cable/phone cos and also own all of the TV channels. It is in their best interests to make you pay for as many channels as they can since they get paid twice.

[Evil_Attorney]

Originally Posted by wayner

I am thinking of buying a Win8 tablet for Sage playback since I assume it should work exactly like an extender or PC. And the playback of Sage content on the iPad isn't great, especially for 1080i content, and skipping forward causes long delays or kills the stream.

I was thinking of the same thing. If you find a tablet that works well for 1080i, let us know.

[IVB]

FWIW, the expiration of videos in HuluPlus really bugged me. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood to watch a certain show, and it would bug me that I needed to keep up as Hulu only kept the last 5 episodes.

For example, I really love Revolution, but I've now gone a few months without watching it. Since its OTA I have something like 15 episodes on Sage.

Internet+Cable was only $10/month more than Internet+HuluPlus+SeasonPasses. (I have to keep netflix streaming as kids will chop me off at the knees otherwise, they like to watch really random stuff). Its a 12 month deal, goes up $20/month after, then another $20 in 2 years. I'll just call & cancel in 12 months at which point i'm sure they'll offer me the deal. If not, i'll go back to OTA+streaming+annoyance.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by IVB

If not, i'll go back to OTA+streaming+annoyance.

Classic.

I talk all this game about how I don't need this or that but I suspect when my kids get a bit older (they are 4 and 2 now), I'm going to be pressured into paying for much more than I currently do....

[IVB]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Classic.

I talk all this game about how I don't need this or that but I suspect when my kids get a bit older (they are 4 and 2 now), I'm going to be pressured into paying for much more than I currently do....

meh, Netflix streaming at $9/month is now just for the 12 year old and 9 year old girls. They won't use the "kids" profile, keep using the default "adults" profile, so now my "suggested just for you" is...interesting. But at $9/month, I don't care, heck I might gift them a *SECOND* subscription so they stop using my damn userid.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Evil_Attorney

I was thinking of the same thing. If you find a tablet that works well for 1080i, let us know.

The problem is that Placeshifter doesn't seem to work, at least not for me, with 1080i files so you will need SageTV client running under Win8.

Here is an oldish thread that has some info http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59975

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I am a techie and I have no interest in "cutting the cord". I am willing to pay just over $100 per month for TV and high speed internet. I don't like hunting Netflix, Hulu, Roku, Boxee, PlayOn etc for various shows - I want them all in one place. If somebody comes up with a true single appliance that plugs into the internet and gets all the content I can get from cable then I'll consider it.

I am with you!

I mean my hobbies are vast, but ones that truely border "Life Style" are home automation and home theater. I am at the point where I could not live without these in my life (toung and cheek), but what they have to offer have become common place in my house hold.

I have no "real" choice but to pay for some sort of TV feed, right now for me it's cable. I have 9 TV tuners which feed the house with recorded entertainment for everyone. I couldn't tell you what night anyhting is actually on if I tried, I don't even archive anything after I watch it. It just get's deleted - except for the last episode of the season. Everything else I pretty much endup buyng on BD. Recorded premium tv and sports in every room, every movie ripped (DVD), and BD played in the theater. This, for me, is awesome and no one in the family complains - that's the best part!

I can certainly see trying to save money, but as IVB pointed out in his endevers, it pretty much comes out the same.