Time to move on from Sage

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by emveepee

No it's not burnt in but the new setting in Kodi is to automatically display it if you want and recordings works just like live tv. There's a new accessibility options to default some features on or off. What is your concern with this?

Martin

Then I will need to find a client to try Kodi on and see how the CC works on it with HDHomeRun recordings.

I just recently gotten Amazon firestick so I might give it a try on it. I don't think I have a PC that have a video card capable of playing back HD formats. My SageTV is just a back-end server, I use HD300 as a client for each TV.


Bill

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by TechBill

I just recently gotten Amazon firestick so I might give it a try on it.

I have the original FTV and because it doesn't deinterlace 1080i it is no good to my eyes. Some people don't mind it too much.

Martin

[emveepee]

@TechBill, I can't get cc'ing to work on anything except VLC on files from my SiiconDust HDTC. Does this play for you in SageTV http://d-h.st/wrFS (make sure you select the ts file, there may be adware on the site)

Edit: I gave some feedback to the Kodi dev working on the DV change and he has got these h264 files working in Kod now. That is why I feel it is important to participate.

Martin

[mbowling]

I have no reason to leave SageTV. It records TV shows and automatically skips commercials during playback. It's still perfect for me!

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by emveepee

@TechBill, I can't get cc'ing to work on anything except VLC on files from my SiiconDust HDTC. Does this play for you in SageTV http://d-h.st/wrFS (make sure you select the ts file, there may be adware on the site)

Edit: I gave some feedback to the Kodi dev working on the DV change and he has got these h264 files working in Kod now. That is why I feel it is important to participate.

Martin

Yes your clip closed captioning work fine on my SageTV but it a "Roll-up" type of captioning which most player are unable to playback unless it support the "Roll-up" captioning.

What most player support are "Pop-up" captioning since player developers intended to think it the only type of captioning used.

I prefer Pop-up types myself but it seem lately more and more networks starting to use "Roll-up" type now days

I think it because it cheaper for network to implement a "Roll-up" type since with "Pop-up" it take more time to make sure the timing of the caption pop up is accurate to what being said in the video which mean more man hours to pay for a Pop-up captioning types.

With Roll-up, captioning timing doesn't need to be perfectly accurate and is inserted by using a stenotype machine (ones you seen in court room) making it quicker and cheaper to add captioning into videos when accurately is not needed.

So need to ask developers to add support for "Roll-up" captioning types.

Here more info about it - http://abercap.com/blog/2008/10/09/c...-up-vs-pop-on/

Bill

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by TechBill

So need to ask developers to add support for "Roll-up" captioning types.

Thanks as it turns out the problem was that in both Kodi and NextPVR they hadn't connected closed captioning to h264 video, which the HDTC is probably really the first big use case.

The feature I am trying to get added now is the positional placement of the described video. The ATI decoder has that in NextPVR but in Kodi it is up to the user to move it top or bottom depending on the broadcast. I probably have to be the one that implements it too but I don't mind giving it back. I'm still researching how I might do this.

Martin

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by emveepee

Thanks as it turns out the problem was that in both Kodi and NextPVR they hadn't connected closed captioning to h264 video, which the HDTC is probably really the first big use case.

The feature I am trying to get added now is the positional placement of the described video. The ATI decoder has that in NextPVR but in Kodi it is up to the user to move it top or bottom depending on the broadcast. I probably have to be the one that implements it too but I don't mind giving it back. I'm still researching how I might do this.

Martin

I believe the decoder play a role in this too if I recalled that some of the decoder wouldn't or couldn't playback the CC code in it.

Here a post about NextPVR and CC , You'll see a list of decoder that supposedly to work in that post - http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.p...-display/page2

Bill

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by TechBill

I believe the decoder play a role in this too if I recalled that some of the decoder wouldn't or couldn't playback the CC code in it.

Here a post about NextPVR and CC , You'll see a list of decoder that supposedly to work in that post - http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.p...-display/page2

Bill

NextPVR definitely needs decoders and I'm actually mvallevand on that thread. Non of those (including the SageTV decoder) would work with h264 files in NextPVR.

Martin.

[Skirge01]

If Sage keeps running as crappily as it has been recently, I may be the next one to go. For the first time in my Sage years, I've added a 2nd PC client recently and have had nothing but problems ever since. I'm now getting Java out of memory issues, recordings from HDHRs (OTA) ceasing, and the service stopping without warning. I already cut the cord and am only OTA now, but if just a 2nd PC client is enough to prevent Sage from running reliably, I'm gone. Amazing that my setup ran so reliably with a single PC client for so many years, but yet a 2nd client was enough to bring the whole thing to its knees. Kinda sad, actually. OTA was always the reliable source and my HDPVRs were the spotty ones. I get rid of the HDPVRs, add a 2nd client and all hell breaks loose.

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

If Sage keeps running as crappily as it has been recently, I may be the next one to go. For the first time in my Sage years, I've added a 2nd PC client recently and have had nothing but problems ever since. I'm now getting Java out of memory issues, recordings from HDHRs (OTA) ceasing, and the service stopping without warning. I already cut the cord and am only OTA now, but if just a 2nd PC client is enough to prevent Sage from running reliably, I'm gone. Amazing that my setup ran so reliably with a single PC client for so many years, but yet a 2nd client was enough to bring the whole thing to its knees. Kinda sad, actually. OTA was always the reliable source and my HDPVRs were the spotty ones. I get rid of the HDPVRs, add a 2nd client and all hell breaks loose.

If you decide to move away I strongly recommend TabloTV. Hit me up in PM and Ill give you all kinds of great info on it. I have been using the quad tuner TabloTV now for 10 months, and the dual tuner for 3 months prior to that.

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by emveepee

NextPVR definitely needs decoders and I'm actually mvallevand on that thread. Non of those (including the SageTV decoder) would work with h264 files in NextPVR.

Martin.

Cool ...

I am plan on trying NextPVR, MediaPortal, and WMC soon but right now I am in college finishing up then I will have more time to experiment with other PVR and Closed Captioning.

Another thing need to keep in mind that standard Closed Captioning have location markers where it shows up on screen. Top bottom left right etc. Most players ignore those markers and it can be pain in the butt when Captioning meant to be on the left or right next to the person speaking shows up together on the bottom but you don't know who said what.

Here more information about this - http://ccextractor.sourceforge.net/spupng/spupng.html you wanted to make sure developer are aware of this.

Bill

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by TechBill

Most players ignore those markers and it can be pain in the butt when Captioning meant to be on the left or right next to the person speaking shows up together on the bottom but you don't know who said what.

I posted earlier that this was something I hoped to contribute back to Kodi, my first problem is understanding the SSA/ASS subtitle layout that this change will require.

Martin

[7up]

If you depart SageTV, best options right now are TabloTV or Media Browser.
Tablo is limited to OTA although is plug and play with major software updates coming this quarter. Media Browser can do everything Tablo can do plus a lot more although requires more hardware and time to configure. For a power SageTV user, I'd say Media Browser is much better fit but its good to have options. I'm currently running them both

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by 7up

If you depart SageTV, best options right now are TabloTV or Media Browser.

By MediaBrowser do you mean MB3? If so MB3 isn't even a PVR it's a client to Windows backend meaning WMC, MP, or NextPVR, and then more like Plex it transcodes and resends. It's a huge a waste of CPU for those of use that don't want or need it.

Martin

[7up]

Let me start off by saying that there still isn't anything which really competes with SageTV + extender clients in terms of capabilites as a DIY whole home solution. For anyone content with how things work I would never suggest switching just for the fun of it unless they were so inclined.

So what options do you have in the PC based DVR world? Myth is still popular although not for everyone. NextPVR? WMC? Kodi? Setting up mini PC's as extenders isn't always cost effective and and even Raspi have their drawbacks.

Tablo is simple plug and play solution limited to OTA content which uses Roku and soon FireTV as clients and can stream to phones and tablets. Software is very immature but they have promised to add features and will be releasing their API shortly. Cost to play is the device, hard drive, monthly or lifetime sub, and clients if you need them.

You are absolutely correct about Media Browser requiring CPU power as it is a server and it does require WMC or NextPVR to serve as the backend. Depending upon what you are trying to accomplish, MB3 does a good job of making your content available including live and recorded TV with support for mobile apps. They have recently previewed their Android TV app and are actively work on TV client for Fire TV which are expected soon. I too would like to avoid the transcoding process however the reality is that most of the devices people would like to use as clients don't handle mpeg2 all that well. I know that the option to turn off transcoding has been requested so perhaps at some point it will be an option. Using OTA as a source, the picture quality of MB is better than Tablo when viewed on the same client.

Lastly, DRM has become even more of a signficant issue for anyone wanting to do their own DVR and that includes SageTV. In my area, other than local network channels and a few others, Time Warner has everything flagged making it difficult (not impossible) to do you own DVR system unless you go with Tivo/minis or WMC/extenders or record analog.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by 7up

So what options do you have in the PC based DVR world? Myth is still popular although not for everyone. NextPVR? WMC? Kodi?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Setting up mini PC's as extenders isn't always cost effective and and even Raspi have their drawbacks.

A Chromebox is a fantastic client with Kodi, they were going for $105 US on Black Friday. I think mine was around $155 CDN delivered with tax. The RPi has way too many drawback for me, I don't have the patience so it's not a bargain. The FTV is coming along now that deinterlacing is being introduced. That's Jan 2015 too, things will only get better.

I resolved the playback issues which aren't really mpeg2 they are almost always 1080i, by recording 720p with an HDPVR and HDTC.

You are absolutely correct about Media Browser requiring CPU power as it is a server

First you do need the proper extender. For transcoding without comskip or even fast skipping for that matter, its not a PVR. I like knowing that if my NextPVR backend dies, I can buy a replacment Win7 reburb for $100-150 and go another 3-5 years.

Lastly, DRM has become even more of a signficant issue for anyone wanting to do their own DVR and that includes SageTV. In my area, other than local network channels and a few others, Time Warner has everything flagged making it difficult (not impossible) to do you own DVR system unless you go with Tivo/minis or WMC/extenders or record analog.

Understood but that's pretty much an American CableCard concern, here in Canada there is no choice and in the DVB world WMC is not always the best choice

Martin

[7up]

@emveepee, - We're pretty much in agreement. If I had to place a bet on the best solution down the road, I'd probably put my chips on Kodi. I've configured XBMC/Kodi using serverwmc in the past however there were lag issues pulling data with the EPG. Has this been resolved? 1080i channels were also problematic which may have related to the client used although the issue can be resolved, at least for OTA, by using an HDTC as you point out. Chromebox does make a good client especially at that price and perhaps one day I will set one up. I have a sufficient server already so setting up a test MB3 system to also function as DVR wasn't an issue. While MB is far from perfect, is anything perfect? , it does have some nice features including streaming to tablets/phones, remote access and great eye candy but it does require transcoding. Disabling transcoding for native h.264 content is not an option at this time but it is an option that might be added. Dropping in an inexpensive Fire TV stick and using it as a client to watch live TV and local content is pretty cool. MB also now supports DVBLink. Out of curiosity, by DVB content are you referring to FTA and are you using receiver or DVB card?

[amac]

Sage is going just fine for this OTA user. The Plex plug-in serves up my OTA recordings to other devices. Very low cost setup so no need for anything else yet.

As to Tablo, I seem to recall some issue of the disk content not being accessible other than via streaming or something like that. It's not an open system, more like a cable provider's proprietary box.

[7up]

Tablo Live TV and recordings are accessible in Plex via plug-in.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by 7up

@emveepee, - We're pretty much in agreement. If I had to place a bet on the best solution down the road, I'd probably put my chips on Kodi. I've configured XBMC/Kodi using serverwmc in the past however there were lag issues pulling data with the EPG. Has this been resolved? ....

The Kodi plugin with NPVR works well and streams live tv from my HDHR Prime within a second or two. Changing channels is about the same speed too, which puts it on par with SageTV IMHO.
I have been putting Kodi/NPVR through it's paces pretty hard through the past few weeks, and I have to say I am pretty impressed. Recordings are reliable, and playback is flawless. NPVR itself as a base PVR, is pretty capable. TV Guide and Recording is straightforward though terminology is a little weird sometimes "TV Guide in XBMC/Kodi has a Switch button instead of Watch", but it has the most promise. There are a few limitations, like the NPVR plugin is written to only work with the default skin, which looks good anyways, and I am not sure how well comskip works. I have read it will read .txt files for skipping.

SageTV is still my DVR and will be until my HD300s quit for sure, but looking at how things are shaping up for other software doesn't hurt. The easiest transition would be a fully functional SageTV plugin for KODI. I know a plugin exists, but I haven't tried it, but it seems only partially there from what I read.