SageTV UI as a Roku App?

[wayner]

Isn't that Google Chromecast, but the app has to support it.

[Jabroni]

I wouldnt get my hopes to high on seeing a good SageTV implementation on Rokus, from what ive tried on the Roku SDK its more based on using their 'Standards' GUIs (thats why most of the apps/channel on it look almost the same). Its more like just to feed RSS/json to show icons, and on click it invokes a HTTP stream

From a developing point of view I see the Rokus a bit outdated and I think AndroidTV and/or AppleTV are far supperior on creating some better GUI interfaces (and on AndroidTV seems that at least the core drawing could be mostly just ported since Android is java based).

[jm9843]

Originally Posted by wayner

Awesome - I have ordered my first Android device, a cheapo US$60 7" tablet, to try it out.

To sort of echo what stuckless said: you'd be much better served spending a little more to get a quality device. The Nexus 7 2013 is still a great tablet which goes pretty cheap these days. For reference: Groupon had it brand new with the official case for $99 a few weeks ago.

[jm9843]

Originally Posted by wayner

Isn't that Google Chromecast, but the app has to support it.

You'll find that Chromecast app support is pretty widespread on iOS, Android, and video players on the web. And when there isn't explicit support, Android devices can generally cast their on-screen content similar to Airplay. While the Chromecast extension for Chrome browser accomplishes the same for the web.

That said, explicit support in apps and on websites is better because the phone/tablet/PC simply acts as a remote while the Chromecast pulls the content down directly. The portable device isn't taxed by the playback and can even be turned off or go out of range of the Chromecast without interrupting playback.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by jm9843

To sort of echo what stuckless said: you'd be much better served spending a little more to get a quality device. The Nexus 7 2013 is still a great tablet which goes pretty cheap these days. For reference: Groupon had it brand new with the official case for $99 a few weeks ago.

I realize that but this is just to play around a bit and try out Android plus this Sage client. I would like to find a good Sage environment on a tablet - my Dell Venue Pro 8 is a bit underpowered but it works. I usually use Air Video HD on my iPad but it isn't a Sage client, just a video playback environment. The ideal situation for me would be an iOS client.

I will likely get a Surface Pro4 for work soon so that should be an excellent SageTV tablet form factor, however the battery life isn't great.

In terms of longer term Sage clients - I have 9 Sage extenders in use (plus a few spares). Two are HD300s and the rest are HD200s. If android boxes work better then I may move to them eventually but that will be expensive and I may phase that in over time.

[plawlor]

I broke down and bought a Shield. Nice unit, but finding the navigation tough with the controller or remote when trying to set everything up.

I got the Miniclient setup and connected. Got the UI switched over to Gemstone, but I also use ADM for menu configuration and I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the options menu up on the main screen so I can import my ADM menu structure. On the HD300 with the remote, it's just the "Options" button.

Any advice?

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by plawlor

I broke down and bought a Shield. Nice unit, but finding the navigation tough with the controller or remote when trying to set everything up.

I got the Miniclient setup and connected. Got the UI switched over to Gemstone, but I also use ADM for menu configuration and I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the options menu up on the main screen so I can import my ADM menu structure. On the HD300 with the remote, it's just the "Options" button.

Any advice?

when you long press on the select button, it'll bring up the OSN (On Screen Navigation). Pretty sure the first highlighted action after that is then "Menu" icon (3 horizontal bars if I recall). That's the "options" menu.

In the next build (beta 7), because I'm not using the voice search (yet), then pressing the voice search button will also bring up options.

I would recommend reviewing the Android Miniclient Discussion first post, to get a better sense of what the remote keypresses will do, since there are normal presses, long presses, and even presses that behave differently when video is playing, etc.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62439

[plawlor]

Originally Posted by stuckless

when you long press on the select button, it'll bring up the OSN (On Screen Navigation). Pretty sure the first highlighted action after that is then "Menu" icon (3 horizontal bars if I recall). That's the "options" menu.

Thanks. Figured it out. I was able to get to my ADM options and import my preferred menu structure. I've used the Miniclient a bit on my new Shield and although I haven't used it a lot, it seems to work really well. This is a viable HD300 alternative in my opinion.

My only hesitation with not moving right to the Shield from the Roku on my main TV has nothing to do with SageTV - it's the app selection. No WatchESPN app is a non-starter for me.

Thanks for all your work on the Miniclient!

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by plawlor

Thanks. Figured it out. I was able to get to my ADM options and import my preferred menu structure. I've used the Miniclient a bit on my new Shield and although I haven't used it a lot, it seems to work really well. This is a viable HD300 alternative in my opinion.

My only hesitation with not moving right to the Shield from the Roku on my main TV has nothing to do with SageTV - it's the app selection. No WatchESPN app is a non-starter for me.

Thanks for all your work on the Miniclient!

and, it's a pretty expensive box for the lack of apps...

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by plawlor

Thanks. Figured it out. I was able to get to my ADM options and import my preferred menu structure. I've used the Miniclient a bit on my new Shield and although I haven't used it a lot, it seems to work really well. This is a viable HD300 alternative in my opinion.

My only hesitation with not moving right to the Shield from the Roku on my main TV has nothing to do with SageTV - it's the app selection. No WatchESPN app is a non-starter for me.

Thanks for all your work on the Miniclient!

Is this not the WathESPN app? (Unless they are explictly blocking the AndroidTV you can probably just install it)

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

and, it's a pretty expensive box for the lack of apps...

Are there apps that you are missing on Android TV? Just curious, it's a real question. I'm assuming by "lack of apps" you've tried installing some but they weren't there

Personally, there are very few apps that I tend use... Ted Talks, YouTube, Kodi, Plex, Netflix, Trailers, and now SageTV The Sheild is primarily aimed at gaming, but because it's a such a beefy box (spec wise) it ends up running SageTV quite well. And, now, I can flip between SageTV, Netflix, Ted Talks, quite easily (I've played a few games on it, but, not really my thing). People pay as much or more for an HD300... and it only runs a single app (although it does it really, really well)

[plawlor]

Originally Posted by stuckless

Is this not the WathESPN app? (Unless they are explictly blocking the AndroidTV you can probably just install it)

Yes, they are blocking it for Android TV - "Not compatible". And yes, I am aware of the workarounds available to sideload apps that are not compatible, but then they are not available on your main screen - need to launch sideloader to see them. I've also heard that it then functions more like the phone app and you may need a mouse and keyboard to use it effectively. The Roku WatchESPN app, conversely, is very easy to use.

Originally Posted by stuckless

Are there apps that you are missing on Android TV? Just curious, it's a real question. I'm assuming by "lack of apps" you've tried installing some but they weren't there Personally, there are very few apps that I tend use... Ted Talks, YouTube, Kodi, Plex, Netflix, Trailers, and now SageTV The Sheild is primarily aimed at gaming, but because it's a such a beefy box (spec wise) it ends up running SageTV quite well. And, now, I can flip between SageTV, Netflix, Ted Talks, quite easily (I've played a few games on it, but, not really my thing). People pay as much or more for an HD300... and it only runs a single app (although it does it really, really well)

I agree with what you are saying. I also use very few apps, but my absolute favourite (WatchESPN) is missing plus a few others I use from time-to-time. If the Android TV takes off at all, I suspect more dedicated Android TV apps will emerge. I also like the added flexibility of the Android TV for doing things outside the norm - accessing web pages for video content, SageTV Miniclient, etc., but with that added flexibility comes some reduction in usability for the rest of my family. They all love the simplicity of the Roku UI and suspect they would struggle with the Android TV a bit. After all, they took years to master SageTV. It took the HD200/300 series, the dedicated remotes, Gemstone, and menu customization through ADM to get them there. I am the only techie in the house.

[tvmaster2]

well, now that you put it that way.... 😜
now that your Sage app is up, if I needed another extender I'd look at this before a HDxxx model

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stuckless

Are there apps that you are missing on Android TV? Just curious, it's a real question. I'm assuming by "lack of apps" you've tried installing some but they weren't there

As much as I like the Shield, it would be hard to recommend it to anyone as a streaming device. Apps are a bit of a problem. ESPN seems like less of a problem to me, since there's always the regular TV/DVR route for that. But, Amazon Instant Video is missing (except for a barely-working hack that someone did recently). Showtime Anytime is also missing, which is particularly annoying given that there is a separate Showtime app that works without a cable subscription (that is, the Showtime equivalent of HBO Now, which is distinct from HBO Go).

Truth be told, I'm surprised there are as many apps as there are. Google hasn't been pushing Android TV at all, as far as I can tell.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by reggie14

As much as I like the Shield, it would be hard to recommend it to anyone as a streaming device. Apps are a bit of a problem. ESPN seems like less of a problem to me, since there's always the regular TV/DVR route for that. But, Amazon Instant Video is missing (except for a barely-working hack that someone did recently). Showtime Anytime is also missing, which is particularly annoying given that there is a separate Showtime app that works without a cable subscription (that is, the Showtime equivalent of HBO Now, which is distinct from HBO Go).

Truth be told, I'm surprised there are as many apps as there are. Google hasn't been pushing Android TV at all, as far as I can tell.

Forgive my ignorance with this, since being in Canada I don't get any of those services you listed But, I assume what you are saying is that these apps do exist on Roku but not on Android TV? (Shield is just a Android TV). If they exist on Roku, are they "blessed" apps from the provider, or are they hacked solutions that others have built to access the services?

I've done my share of ranting about google/android tv... I even wrote 2 apps that I refused to publish because of their stupid app publishing procedures... I recall them asking me for phone and tablet screen shots, in addition the TV ones, even though the apps I were releasing were actually NOT phone/tablet apps, nor would they even run on phone/tablet, but yet google was making me enter all kinds of phone/tablet info about it. They didn't seem concerned by complaints, so I deleted the apps, and until this MiniClient I hadn't written anything for AndroidTV (I;ve yet publish it in the store, so who knows if they've fixed anything, yet). My point, is that I find sometimes google can be be antagonistic towards developers... and so, maybe this is partly why devs are not jumping through hoops to actually product something.

On it's own, I probably would not have bought a Shield TV. I did already own a Nexus player and I was pretty happy with that. But, for SageTV, the Shield runs it pretty well, and so my only recommendation when it comes to Shield, is that the SageTV experience is better than the other devices that I've tested it on.

[plawlor]

Originally Posted by stuckless

Forgive my ignorance with this, since being in Canada I don't get any of those services you listed But, I assume what you are saying is that these apps do exist on Roku but not on Android TV? (Shield is just a Android TV). If they exist on Roku, are they "blessed" apps from the provider, or are they hacked solutions that others have built to access the services?

Yes, these are all apps designed and developed by the content providers themselves, but specifically for the Roku and available for download from the Roku channel store. So in order for there to be an Android TV version of WatchESPN, ESPN would have to decide to invest in it.

I too am Canadian, but I do get these services

Prior to Christmas, I exclusively used SageTV - no streaming device. I had both a Bell TV and DishNetwork subscription - 3 Bell receivers and 2 DN all in one integrated Program Guide. I loved it, but given the Canadian dollar, my DN sub was becoming unaffordable. I was paying $100/month for my Bell sub and $220+ for my DN sub. So what I did was cancel the DN sub, add a few channels to my Bell sub, and add Rokus with SlingTV, Netflix, and Hulu accounts. My SlingTV account grants me access to WatchESPN, which is 10x better than the ESPN live channels when it comes to college sports. So all in all, I am saving ~$140/month, but getting more content, just less of it is now delivered through my SageTV setup.

With better support from the content providers for Android TV, the Shield would be the perfect device for me as it would allow me to access my online content and my SageTV setup all from one device. However, I already own HD300s, so instead, I just toggle the input on my TV back and forth between the Roku and the HD300. Not much different really. I just have 3 remotes instead of one.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stuckless

But, I assume what you are saying is that these apps do exist on Roku but not on Android TV? (Shield is just a Android TV). If they exist on Roku, are they "blessed" apps from the provider, or are they hacked solutions that others have built to access the services?

Correct- Showtime and Amazon both have fully supported apps for Roku. Basically, every major (and almost every minor) streaming service has a fully supported Roku app.

There's extra weirdness, too. For example, for a long time Comcast cable TV customers couldn't use the HBO Go app on a Roku. Now they can, but they can't use it on an Android TV. There's no good reason why, except that Comcast insists on whitelisting what devices you can use. There's no way to log in to HBO Go on an Android TV if you're a Comcast customer.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by plawlor

Yes, these are all apps designed and developed by the content providers themselves, but specifically for the Roku and available for download from the Roku channel store. So in order for there to be an Android TV version of WatchESPN, ESPN would have to decide to invest in it.

...

With better support from the content providers for Android TV, the Shield would be the perfect device for me as it would allow me to access my online content and my SageTV setup all from one device. However, I already own HD300s...

Originally Posted by reggie14

Correct- Showtime and Amazon both have fully supported apps for Roku. Basically, every major (and almost every minor) streaming service has a fully supported Roku app.

Maybe now that Apple has a device that allows for apps on a TV these companies will start to take notice and build out these apps for Android and iOS (TV).

Roku has been around for a long time, so, not surprising it has the mother load of apps.

I think the Android TV devices are getting better and the UI (to me) is far nicer than Roku, so I have hopes that the apps will come... eventually.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stuckless

Maybe now that Apple has a device that allows for apps on a TV these companies will start to take notice and build out these apps for Android and iOS (TV).

Perhaps, although the AppleTV has always had apps- Apple just needed to work with the provider. I don't think the Apple TV app store is much of a game changer for the big companies.

I hope you're right, though, and that things will be slowly better. The lack of an Amazon app, though, is just a pissing match between Google and Amazon. Amazon appears to be willing to create the app (I think there's already an app for AndroidTV-powered Sony TVs, and they're apparently creating a Philips one), but they won't create a general one.

I really don't see how it is beneficial for Amazon to restrict their streaming app. They don't make much (if any) money on the devices themselves, and you can't buy their content if you can't use their app. I guess they might want UIs that encourage you to buy content from Amazon, rather than a different provider, but Android TV seems to be pretty agnostic about sources. Google Play doesn't seem to get much of a preference over other providers.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Perhaps, although the AppleTV has always had apps- Apple just needed to work with the provider. I don't think the Apple TV app store is much of a game changer for the big companies.

While that may be true, Apple basically created the apps (or had very tight controls on them), and they really sucked I've owned 2 AppleTV, and horrible UI and especially horrible netfix app is actually what pushed me to get a Roku in the first place, and then threw the AppletTV units in the garbarge. My guess is that the new AppleTV units will allow providers to create real apps.

I hope you're right, though, and that things will be slowly better. The lack of an Amazon app, though, is just a pissing match between Google and Amazon. Amazon appears to be willing to create the app (I think there's already an app for AndroidTV-powered Sony TVs, and they're apparently creating a Philips one), but they won't create a general one.

You are never going to see a full fledged Amazon App on AndroidTV, no more than you'll see a Google Play Store app on Amazon TV, etc. The apps store is the money maker, and while neither of parties make money on hardware, they do make money on apps and content.

I really don't see how it is beneficial for Amazon to restrict their streaming app. They don't make much (if any) money on the devices themselves, and you can't buy their content if you can't use their app. I guess they might want UIs that encourage you to buy content from Amazon, rather than a different provider, but Android TV seems to be pretty agnostic about sources. Google Play doesn't seem to get much of a preference over other providers.

Again, I think this is more about Amazon, than Google. They want, for good reasons, to have a vender lock in ecosystem that ensure that when things are purchased it's funnelled though their app store. They are not going to create a Streaming app for general Android, because if they did... FireTV and likely Fire Tablets would just die, and Amazon would only make subscription revenues. Amazon streaming is the only reason why someone would buy an Amazon device. FireTV is android, so they already have the app, which is why they can selectively push it to other vendors, but, they are not going to release it for general Android.

[macsupergeek]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

to your knowledge, is there anything like Apple Airplay for Android tablets, i.e. for interacting with Roku's, etc., so you could wirelessly watch what's playing on the tablets mini-client on a large screen tv in the same room?

Yes Roku has "screen mirroring" I believe it is still in beta and it is buried in the setting menu to turn it on and then you can mirror pretty much the same way AirPlay does, BUT it does not work as well. Apple's AirPlay and then even Airparrot's "hack" of AirPlay work much better at this time, IMHO.