YouTube TV - unlimited cloud dvr, etc.

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Because of first Tivo, then Sage, I just can't deal with commercials anymore. It doesn't matter what the model is, the cost, how many or what channels are carried, but if there are commercials, I'm not in....

My total disdain for commercials goes back even further than that. I was a career firefighter for over 20 years and had a rotating schedule. This meant that I couldn't reliably be able to watch prime time shows. So I had up to 4 VCRs recording all my shows so I could watch them when I was home. A couple of them over the years had a type of commercial skip where it would FF through the commercials and go back to play at the end of the commercials. Otherwise it was FF/Play to get past the commercials.
I then graduated to ReplayTV (the FAR better TiVo, IMHO) and had several of those as I retired the VCRs. The ones I ended up using had commercial skip built in (ultimately their demise as they got pretty much sued into oblivion by the networks).
Once HD came along there was no HD version of ReplayTV on the horizon (and they ultimately went belly up by the time HD was common) so I built my first SageTV machine.
Started out using ShowAnalyzer and when development of that fell behind/stopped I switched to Comskip.

Was it the ShowAnalyzer guy who had "Death to commercials" with the animated gif of a guy firing pistols on both ends of that string?

[reggie14]

YouTube TV is expanding to 10 New Markets:

YouTube TV will expand to 10 more cities across the US, the company announced yesterday. The OTT service will expand to Atlanta, Charlotte, Dallas-Fort Worth, Detroit, Houston, Miami-Fort Lauderdale, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne, Phoenix, and Washington, DC.

Despite the commercials, the service looks pretty good. I'll sign up for at least the trial, but the channel selection will almost certainly be a deal-breaker for me.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by reggie14

YouTube TV is expanding to 10 New Markets:

Why do people particularly care about local markets - I can see NFL games but are there any other reasons? Local news - but can't you get that from a TV station's website?

And if you are a SageTV user and can integrate OTA with something like YouTube TV then having local stations is totally irrelevant, isn't it?

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by wayner

Why do people particularly care about local markets - I can see NFL games but are there any other reasons? Local news - but can't you get that from a TV station's website?

First, I'm a little confused about the relevancy of your comment. You can't sign up for Youtube TV right now unless you're in a supported market. It's not like some of the other services, which allow anyone to sign up, but you may or may not have local affiliates. So, when I talk about channel selection, I'm not referring to local affiliates. I'm referring to the lack of Turner and Viacom channels in Youtube TV.

Anyways, why do people want local channels? Speaking for myself, I care relatively little about getting my local affiliate. I'd miss local news and occasionally miss local sports, but mostly I just want the TV shows.

The problem is, I want those TV shows the day they air, and the local affiliates effectively have a monopoly on the shows for the first 24-48 hours. Without deals with the local affiliates, the providers need to switch to a VoD model, which means you'll have to wait for the content to become available, and some content will never become available.

Similarly, I'm not sure what would happen with major events, like the Super Bowl. Losing the local affiliate probably means losing any live TV broadcast on a broadcast network.

And I don't watch TV on a computer, so being able to stream stuff off a website is mostly worthless to me. I guess I could cast from a phone, but the video quality and reliability of streaming my local affiliates is pretty poor.

Originally Posted by wayner

And if you are a SageTV user and can integrate OTA with something like YouTube TV then having local stations is totally irrelevant, isn't it?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Without local affiliates, I suppose I could keep SagTV going, or switch to something more basic (like Plex DVR). But, I'd lose the benefits I'm looking for.

I'm not looking to save money with something like Youtube TV. I'm looking for a better experience. Sage works reasonably well now, but that's still a separate system I have to manage, and the HD-PVR+STB combo isn't the most reliable solution. Having a good turn-key solution for DVR and VOD would be great. And getting something that will work well on mobile and away from home is what would make me willing to accept the tradeoff of unskippable commercials.

All that said, I somehow forgot that Youtube TV still doesn't have apps for media streamers. That's definitely a deal-breaker for me. I'll still the trial, but there's no way I would seriously consider subscribing until there's apps for Roku and/or Android TV.

[wayner]

I wasn't aware that YouTube TV was only available in specific local markets. I thought anyone in the US could sign up for it with the caveat that the network affiliates may not be their local stations.

And that is what leads to my second comment - if you want to cut the cord and move to YouTube TV then you can get "cable-only" channels like ESPN, which you can then supplement that with OTA to get other content and local content like news, etc.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by wayner

And that is what leads to my second comment - if you want to cut the cord and move to YouTube TV then you can get "cable-only" channels like ESPN, which you can then supplement that with OTA to get other content and local content like news, etc.

So far, it looks like Google is only going to roll out in areas where they can get re-transmission deals from the local affiliates.

But yes, I suppose if local channels weren't available, I could keep using something like SageTV for OTA channels, and just use a streaming service for cable channels. I'd have to be pretty desperate for that to look like a good option, though. Then I'd have to manage two different DVRs, and flip back and forth between the two depending on which channel I wanted to watch. And, that still wouldn't help my problem with mobile and remote viewing.

I suppose I could move away from SageTV if I only needed OTA channels. I've been trying Plex DVR, but I find the interface atrocious and playback doesn't work on web or Android clients right now.

Sage does fine for me now, but I was pretty slow to move to Sage v9 under the expectation that a good streaming service would come along that would provide a good substitute. Commercials aren't a sticking point for me, so I really expected something to come out by now.

If Google is really serious about Youtube TV, they'll eventually add the Turner and Viacom channels and create some streamer apps. That's all it would take to make me happy.

[will]

Originally Posted by reggie14

If Google is really serious about Youtube TV, they'll eventually add the Turner and Viacom channels and create some streamer apps. That's all it would take to make me happy.

If Google is really serious about creating a cloud-based DVR then your recordings shouldn't expire after 9 months... YouTube TV is a joke as it is implanted right now unless cost is your only concern.

[SWKerr]

I would like to get an Online service that works as well as what I have today and money is not the key driver. It is user experience. I do not need Comskip but a quick skip ahead is a requirement. I remember the first time I started using a DVR and it was shocking how much time I saved skipping adds. I pay today for the Hulu add skip because it is worth it to me. The main draw of an online service over SageTV\Plex\Emby would be simplicity and flexibility. Just being able to stream what you want when you want from whatever device or location would be great.

But...all these Online services seems to have compromises of some kind when it comes to the DVR options. Locals are a problem in Raleigh NC since only the local ABC shows up on any service. But many other channels have issues as well. You may get them but can't skip commercials. Plus there is no consistency to the limits. It varies by channel.

With YouTube TV (which I can not get yet) The channel selection and price seem great but the limited device support is a deal killer. I might put up with a limited number of adds but it would depend on how many channels were impacted. As a subscriber to many online services I have found that everything seems to show up on Netflix\Amazon\Hulu sooner or later so missing a few station like TNT\TBS\Comedy Central are not a major hang up. Really I can get the funny parts of the Daily Show on YouTube so not sure why Viacom is pulling its content from all the Online providers.

Truth is with the online content I already get I have more good shows and movies available than I can watch. Only thing I really need is from a Online provider is DVR support for Sports and News. I may not get some shows for a year or two but I am willing to live with that.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by will

If Google is really serious about creating a cloud-based DVR then your recordings shouldn't expire after 9 months... YouTube TV is a joke as it is implanted right now unless cost is your only concern.

I doubt that's a big issue to most people. If you're used to only having a ~500GB recording drive, you're not hoarding shows for years at a time. I wish it was a little longer- it would be nice to have the option of rewatching the last season before the next season airs (not that I've ever actually done that).

I don't know how much the networks had to say in the 9 month limit, but you need some sort of limit. Either you limit it in the number of hours, like the other services, or you limit it by time.

I would say the 9 month limit is better than Hulu's 50 hour limit (or 200 hour limit if you pay extra).

[will]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I don't know how much the networks had to say in the 9 month limit, but you need some sort of limit.

Why do you need some sort of limit? I have no limit with SageTV, as long as I'm willing to pay and expand my RAID drives I can store as much as I want.

I would rather have storage by the hour and then let me mange what expires and doesn't and let me pay for as many hours as I want - currently, I have 1,080 hours recorded on Sage, about 45 days worth of TV.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by will

If Google is really serious about creating a cloud-based DVR then your recordings shouldn't expire after 9 months... YouTube TV is a joke as it is implanted right now unless cost is your only concern.

This may be required by the lawyers. Time-shifting is covered by Fair Use and it isn't clear that Fair Use allows you to permanently archive material.

Here in Canada when they rewrote the Copyright Act a few years ago they specifically addressed time-shifting but with a condition:

29.23 (1)(c) the individual keeps the recording no longer than is reasonably necessary in order to listen to or view the program at a more convenient time;

However I am not aware of any devices that take this law seriously, as in cable or satellite boxes that delete a show after it is a year old or based on some other time limit or after a viewing - almost like a watch once flag.

Does anyone know if the law is clear on this in the US? In other words, does Fair Use, as determined in the Sony Betamax case, allow you to just time-shift to watch a show later on that you are expected to delete, as in Canada, or does it allow you to create a permanent archive of the show? That could have a significant bearing on how these types of services evolve in the future.

In any event I will want to keep my SageTV system - the one think that could make it obsolete is if 4K and higher resolutions eventually take over and 1080i doesn't cut it anymore.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by will

Why do you need some sort of limit? I have no limit with SageTV, as long as I'm willing to pay and expand my RAID drives I can store as much as I want.

I would rather have storage by the hour and then let me mange what expires and doesn't and let me pay for as many hours as I want - currently, I have 1,080 hours recorded on Sage, about 45 days worth of TV.

I was referring to services. If you subscribe to some sort of DVR service, there's going to be limits. Those limits can be done in different ways- recording lifetimes, caps on storage, or pay-per-GB. But, realistically, there's going to have to be limits if it needs to operate as a DVR.

I can understand why a power user might prefer to control just a chunk of storage, but I think the recording lifetime model is probably better for the population as a whole. First, look at the other services to see what realistic storage limits would be. Sling TV gives you 100 hours. Hulu gives you 50 or 200 hours, depending on how much you pay. Vue is more like Youtube TV with a lifetime limit, but it's only 28 days instead of Youtube's 9 months. Second, managing storage space is sort of a pain. A reasonably-long recording lifetime limit is probably going to provide a better user experience to most users than a 200GB storage limit.

[photon]

This may be the next big thing. I hope not though. It makes you dependent on more things working properly 24/7. Youtube, Internet service and all the infrastructure to get to your house. You pay and they take your private data about what you watch, when you watch and maybe your response to commercials anyway.

I have never paid for TV. An antenna and Sage TV is my dream come true and I don't know that this can be improved upon. Admittedly I don't get any cable channels but I haven't found anything on cable more compelling than what I get OTA for free. I have friends and family with cable so it's not like I don't know what is available on it. I have a limited amount of time for watching most days and always have far more things of interest recorded on Sage than I could ever watch even if doing nothing else while on vacation.

Sage now costs me $25 a year because EPG is no longer free. Still, a lot cheaper than $35 a month and I have better use for the $395 more this service would cost and I would probably need a faster internet service at higher cost as well.

[reggie14]

Well, Youtube TV is finally rolling out apps.

They're going to hit Android TV and Xbox first, followed by Apple TV, Roku, and Samsung/Song/LG smart TVs.

Still no word on expanded channel offerings. I'm curious what's going on there, given their relatively big marketing push tied to the World Series. If they were going to expand their channel line-up imminently, surely they would have done so before the push. I've been assuming that Google has been in talks with other networks, but maybe not.

I think the focus on sports was a mistake. I might have made sense if they could have done it very well, but as it stands I have a hard time seeing any serious sports fans dropping cable for Youtube TV. Too many things don't work there. Lots of markets don't have live channels. Verizon has exclusivity on NFL streaming to mobile devices. Some sports are broadcast on networks that aren't carried by Youtube TV. Basically, they picked a very difficult and rather expensive niche.

[wbarber69]

Ive recently subscribed to youtube tv. I had a gap in between jobs and it was out of season time for all my favorite shows so i put my DTV subscription on hold and signed up for youtubetv. I would love to see a plugin for sagetv that could schedule and save recordings from youtubetv's live streams. if you let a show go on long enough they only offer the online version with youtube/hulu type ads that break up the stream. id like to add youtube as one or more extra tuners for local channels and whatever movie channels they offer, to offload from my 3 physical tuners. If anyone has any idea how to get it going id love to be a guinea pig.