Privacy policy?

[Jere_Jones]

I generally don't like to get involved in these political threads, but I think everyone is missing joe123's real question and just answering with a "don't worry about it".

I believe joe123's question is: Does SageTV(the software) transmit viewing history(or the like) to SageTV(the company)?

This is actually a simple and legitimate question.

Personally, I trust Jeff and Dan to do what is right, but I've been here a while. A new (or paranoid) person probably wouldn't.

I'll leave it up to Andy, Jeff and Dan to decide if that question gets an official answer publicly or privately.

Jere

[ToxMox]

I think Jeff pretty much answered in the other thread Andy mentioned with this quote:

Originally Posted by narflex

We don't collect any personal information about usage patterns.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by Jere_Jones

I believe joe123's question is: Does SageTV(the software) transmit viewing history(or the like) to SageTV(the company)?

This is actually a simple and legitimate question.

Jere

For instance, Tivo does collect viewing history. IIRC, The day after the Superbowl nipple-gate, Tivo released viewing info about the event, about tvio users replaying the flash.

That info in its self as tivo released it is harmless, but since it was collected, it could be used for other purposes, sometimes less harmless. If the info is never collected in the first place, then it can never be used against someone.

edit: yup, tivo did release info: TiVo watchers uneasy after post-Super Bowl reports

[Jere_Jones]

ToxMox, thanks for pointing that out. I completely missed it. Well, joe123, there you go.

Jere

[Opus4]

It was actually pointed out in the 3rd post of this thread...

- Andy

[ToxMox]

Originally Posted by Opus4

It was actually pointed out in the 3rd post of this thread...

- Andy

Oops...and there goes me not noticing things.

[Jere_Jones]

Originally Posted by Opus4

It was actually pointed out in the 3rd post of this thread...

I saw that post. But I didn't realize he was an official voice of SageTV until I saw his signature line that had a freytechnologies email address.

[OT]Is it possible to make it more obvious who are SageTV employees? Maybe a change in their title or a consistant icon?[/OT]

Jere

[blade]

Originally Posted by Jere_Jones

This is actually a simple and legitimate question.

Yes, if he actually had a real concern. After reading his previous rants it's hard not to see a pattern developing. I'm just curious what his next complaint about Sage will be. He only had to go back 2.5 years and ignore the response to find this one.

[joe123]

Originally Posted by Jere_Jones

ToxMox, thanks for pointing that out. I completely missed it. Well, joe123, there you go.

Jere

Jere.

1st off - thank you for being one of the "few" normal people here with respect to listening and answering legit questions from users of SageTV.

I too missed post #3. In all fairness, post #3 contradicts the policy statement that reads We also receive technical information [...] via the SageTV service within the SageTV application.

Oh dear, I hear Andy foot steps - he must be near

[joe123]

Originally Posted by Opus4

... and I can't resist...
hmmm...


- Andy

Andy, just to open your horizons up a tad .

Someone can be watching programs of "concern" on TV's in my house with SageTV without my knowledge while unfortunately having that information linked back to me

[jominor]

Originally Posted by joe123

There is a HUGE difference between identifying an IP address and indentifying an individual.

Most everyone knows that using the web identifies an ip address. At best and with the involment of the ISP supplier and legal papers, the best an ip address can do is to identify a location, again not an individual.

There is a real danger here IF SageTV does capture your indentity via SageTV program should Big Brother need that info .

SageTV may be a good guy, but if someone is watching movies of "Concern" to the government and the government wants to see that information for "national" security concerns, SageTV would have to supply the info.

Yes, personal information is being recorded and shared all over the place, but there is a BIG difference knowing that userx bought a gallong of Milk verses userx watched 10 movies of "concern".

I will repeat for the sake of CLARITY: I am not concerned with WEB privacy. I am only concern with what data SageTV program sends back to Head Quarters IF ANY?

I am also not concerned with SageTV, only with the data they may or may not have which can be accessed by others.

Geez, so don't use Sage. I don't believe that Google should fold to the govt, but you know what? Google isn't a right. If you don't like the policy or don't trust Sage, don't use it.

[blade]

We also receive technical information every time a Visitor or User views our Web site or accesses our servers via the SageTV service within the SageTV application. The information we collect and receive includes the date and time of the visit to our site or servers, what pages are viewed and how long each page is viewed, the Visitor or User's IP address and other various technical statistics.

I don't see how that contradicts:

Your SageTV computer connects to the SageTV guide server to request guide information and current system time. No other data is transferred between you and anyone else. There's no one watching what you record or watch like there is with the Tivos.

He clearly stated that your viewing history isn't being transmitted to Sage. So apparently the viewing history you're so worried about isn't sent in as "technical data". Nowhere in the privacy policy does it suggest your viewing history is part of the technical data. Your question was clearly answered yet you don't want to accept it for whatever reason. I (and apparently a few others) can't see the contradiction.

Even if they did collect viewing history like TIVO does depending on how it was stored it might not even be possible to link it back to you. If it's lumped together with everyone else's to generate statistics then it would become anonymous after being collected. If it was stored along with your personal info then it would still be linked to you.

[pawn]

Originally Posted by blade

I don't see how that contradicts:



He clearly stated that your viewing history isn't being transmitted to Sage. So apparently the viewing history you're so worried about isn't sent in as "technical data". Nowhere in the privacy policy does it suggest your viewing history is part of the technical data. Your question was clearly answered yet you don't want to accept it for whatever reason. I (and apparently a few others) can't see the contradiction.

Even if they did collect viewing history like TIVO does depending on how it was stored it might not even be possible to link it back to you. If it's lumped together with everyone else's to generate statistics then it would become anonymous after being collected. If it was stored along with your personal info then it would still be linked to you.

You know, it really is a legitimate question. I personally trust the guys at Sage, and am not insinuating anything (and I suspect Joe's historical posting habit is why he's running into interference here), but we really are trusting them a lot when you consider it. I'm sure there are a lot of companies out there that would pay for the kind of market research that could be carried out if Sage wanted to collect viewing habits, and I'm not sure about you, but I'm really not that comfortable with people knowing what porn I might have glanced at or what political shows I frequent. Not to mention what video game roms I (don't) have and what DVD's I (haven't) ripped. You might want to consider it: saying they collect technical data is pretty vague.

Fortunately I *do* feel comfortable with Sage.

[joe123]

Originally Posted by pawn

saying they collect technical data is pretty vague.

Bingo Pawn.

That SageTV policy statement is very vague and very open and it can mean anything.

On a different but similar issue: I recently started a thread here about the MVP's having brightness problems. Several here attacked me at first. Some 76 posts later, we now have the manufacture admitting the truth - that there IS a brightness problem with MVP's

Vindication drives me to seek the truth and it makes me laugh at those who try to hide it!

[blade]

Originally Posted by joe123

On a different but similar issue: I recently started a thread here about the MVP's having brightness problems. Several here attacked me at first. Some 76 posts later, we now have the manufacture admitting the truth - that there IS a brightness problem with MVP's

Vindication drives me to seek the truth and it makes me laugh at those who try to hide it!

After how many unfounded accusations against Sage saying it was their fault? Claiming GBPVR had a "solution" to the brightness problem and Sage didn't, even though GBPVR's solution was to increase the capture card's brightness. Making claim after claim of against a company until you can finally find something to vindicate yourself isn't a very good way to "seek the truth". If you'll remember you were told several times in that thread that your complaint should be with Hauppauge and not Sage yet you continued to blame Sage and refused to contact Hauppauge. It wasn't you that finally got a response it was someone else who took the time to contact the manufacturer. If they hadn't you'd still be blaming Sage. To you the ends may justify the means, but to me making unfounded accusations isn't the way to "seek the truth".

The reason some people "attack" you is because of the way you go about things. It's make accusations first and find out the truth later.

This thread is another perfect example. It was clearly stated that watched history wasn't part of the technical data that is sent to Sage. Instead of trying to convince people that Sage is lying to them due to the wording of a privacy statement, why not just gather real proof that Sage is collecting our viewing history instead of trying to make people suspicious?

[SprDtyF350]

Originally Posted by blade

If you're really concerned about your privacy, you should get one of these. They're pretty inexpensive and I hear they work quite well.

I love it!! That thing should take care of all the worries

[dkardatzke]

Let me clear this up before this thread gets any longer. The information we collect from your SageTV system when you hit the server is hardware specific. For example what tuners you are using, how many and other information that helps us with support situations. It's also helpful to know how many users are using single tuner verse multi-tuners and how many are using SD vs. HD when making decisions about future features for the product.

As far as show information, this is housed locally on your PC in the Wiz database and that information is not sent back to us so we can't tell how many of you enjoy a late night program on Cinemax compared to those of you that enjoy the occasional episode of Barney. If we ever did any tracking or reporting we would definitely notify you and this would be considered a major change to our privacy policy.

Hope that helps.
Dan

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by dkardatzke

Let me clear this up before this thread gets any longer. The information we collect from your SageTV system when you hit the server is hardware specific. For example what tuners you are using, how many and other information that helps us with support situations. It's also helpful to know how many users are using single tuner verse multi-tuners and how many are using SD vs. HD when making decisions about future features for the product.

I'd love to see the numbers of people using multiple tuners (like 2, 3, 4, 5, etc), and HD to SD .

[joe123]

Originally Posted by blade

After how many unfounded accusations against Sage saying it was their fault? ?

If you would have read the thread instead of attaking, you would have seen that it was a work in progress and when I found out that GBPVR was not a fix, but a patch, I apologized for that and thanked the person who nicely correct me.

Unfortunately, you seem to be no better since you failed to see that too

Good day!

[joe123]

Originally Posted by dkardatzke

The information we collect from your SageTV system when you hit the server is hardware specific.

Hope that helps.
Dan

Thank You Dan. That certainly helps me.