Updated SageTV Docker images

[Zogg]

So last night I wasn't paying close attention and updated all my Unraid dockers, which included SageTV. Needless to say it is BROKEN now.

The UI works and the web server work, but it can't record anything from my HDHR tuners, and it can't play back anything either. The log is full of java errors.

I do have a backup I could restore, but what is the best method to recover? I have a dentist appt. and then will be back for more pain figuring this out.

edit: Java 8

[Striker:WG]

what java version are you running in your docker?

from what I've read in this thread, it sounds like java 8 is not in a good place right now and you may need to switch to a different version like 11 or 16 (which also seems to bring some issues).

[Zogg]

Originally Posted by Striker:WG

what java version are you running in your docker?

from what I've read in this thread, it sounds like java 8 is not in a good place right now and you may need to switch to a different version like 11 or 16 (which also seems to bring some issues).

I was on Java 8. I'll try to switch to 11 or 16 as Stuckless showed and see how it goes.

Edit: Okay I changed the docker settings to Java 16 and all seems to be okay so far. I'm not running very many plugins or UI mods so we'll see how it goes.

[wayner]

@Zogg - do you have any tuners other than the HDHR tuners? There can be issues if you are running the DVB edition which is required for some other tuners. The good thing with the HDHR is that you don't really need drivers as the hardware is not really part of the PC, but a separate network device.

[wayner]

By the way, why have there been so many full versions in the last two years? It used to be multiple years between updates, now it is multiple new versions per year?

Version 	Release 	End of Free updates
Java SE 6 	December 2006 	April 2013 	
Java SE 7 	July 2011 	April 2015 	July 2022 
Java SE 8 (LTS) 	March 2014 	
Java SE 9 	September 2017 	March 2018 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 10 	March 2018 	September 2018 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 11 (LTS) 	September 2018 	September 2027 for Zulu
Java SE 12 	March 2019 	September 2019 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 13 	September 2019 	March 2020 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 14 	March 2020 	September 2020 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 15 	September 2020 	March 2021 for OpenJDK, 
Java SE 16 	March 2021 	September 2021 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 17 (LTS) 	September 2021 	September 2030 for Zulu 	TBA

[Zogg]

Originally Posted by wayner

@Zogg - do you have any tuners other than the HDHR tuners? There can be issues if you are running the DVB edition which is required for some other tuners. The good thing with the HDHR is that you don't really need drivers as the hardware is not really part of the PC, but a separate network device.

@wayner - Only HDHR tuners in use by this instance of SageTV, but thanks for asking. I also use 3 HDPVR2's but since they aren't natively supported in Linux I have them connected to a Win 8.1 VM as network tuners.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Zogg

@wayner - Only HDHR tuners in use by this instance of SageTV, but thanks for asking. I also use 3 HDPVR2's but since they aren't natively supported in Linux I have them connected to a Win 8.1 VM as network tuners.

Thanks for the info. I have two HD-PVRs (the original ones) and I need the DVB edition of unRAID. I am on an old version of unRAID and the DVB edition has changed but Striker has worked with someone to get it working in a new version of unRAID - but I don't want to risk it right now.

It would be much easier if the HD-PVRs were also network connected devices like the HDHR.

[Zogg]

Originally Posted by wayner

Thanks for the info. I have two HD-PVRs (the original ones) and I need the DVB edition of unRAID. I am on an old version of unRAID and the DVB edition has changed but Striker has worked with someone to get it working in a new version of unRAID - but I don't want to risk it right now.

It would be much easier if the HD-PVRs were also network connected devices like the HDHR.

I originally just had one HDPVR2 and was surprised that it wouldn't work with the docker. But running Unraid, I figured a Win 8.1 image wouldn't need that much resources but also not get updated every day like Win 10, so I set up the VM and only use it as a network recorder. It works well most of the time, and now I'm up to 3 HDPVR2's.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by wayner

Is there any reason to upgrade?

Well there is telnet in there now (you did ask for that). But in terms of sagetv, not sure there has been much that is new that is needed... I just like to be all the new stuff... newest unraid, newest sagetv, etc (not that I run sagetv any more, so I'm not that affected by the dvb becacle that happened)

Originally Posted by wayner

By the way, why have there been so many full versions in the last two years? It used to be multiple years between updates, now it is multiple new versions per year?

Version 	Release 	End of Free updates
Java SE 6 	December 2006 	April 2013 	
Java SE 7 	July 2011 	April 2015 	July 2022 
Java SE 8 (LTS) 	March 2014 	
Java SE 9 	September 2017 	March 2018 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 10 	March 2018 	September 2018 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 11 (LTS) 	September 2018 	September 2027 for Zulu
Java SE 12 	March 2019 	September 2019 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 13 	September 2019 	March 2020 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 14 	March 2020 	September 2020 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 15 	September 2020 	March 2021 for OpenJDK, 
Java SE 16 	March 2021 	September 2021 for OpenJDK 	N/A
Java SE 17 (LTS) 	September 2021 	September 2030 for Zulu 	TBA

Oracle wanted to ensure the death of Java so they created a 6month upgrade cycle all but ensuring that enterprising customers (the main customers) could never keep pace with the upgrade cycle. Combine that with the fact that they changed java significantly between 8 and 9 and again in 11 with their module system that now takes a PhD to figure out.

I am/was a huge java evangelist, but, today, I couldn't in good conscious recommend java for a project, which is too bad because it really is/was a great language.

Java used to the #1 programming language in all the charts (in demand, in use, etc) but it has been slipping these past couple of years and it will continue to do so, as many die-hards like myself jump ship. And without people like myself promoting java use, the younger generations will have no interest in it, and we'll be back to a 25 year old language (javascript) that will end up ruling the world. Anyways that's my rant on Java

[wayner]

I didn't know that Telnet has been added. I was going from the changelog on the github page, is there a changelog for the docker?

I might bite the bullet and start upgrading everything since the main thing that I record is hockey and basketball, and those seasons are over, at least for my teams. I have a backup system for playback but I have a daughter who is on the autism spectrum and she gets very upset when I use the backup server, even though it has almost the same content.

Is it possible to essentially create a duplicate of my current SageTV docker and then doing the upgrades on that? This would involve copying over the /appdata folder and pointer the new docker to that. That wouldn't solve the unRAID potential problems, but it would the SageTV issues making it easy to use the production docker or the test docker.

What is taking over the share from Java? Python?

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by wayner

I didn't know that Telnet has been added. I was going from the changelog on the github page, is there a changelog for the docker?

My changelog was basically this first post

've updated sagetv-server-java8, sagetv-server-java10 and sagetv-server-java11.

java7 and java9 can never be updated. Those java versions are no longer available to be downloaded and installed. (likely 8 will follow shortly).

The update fixes the sagetv installation problem (ie, it will now correctly use the new install location and not bintray).

The image also adds in telnet and python (these were requests from others)

Originally Posted by wayner

Is it possible to essentially create a duplicate of my current SageTV docker and then doing the upgrades on that? This would involve copying over the /appdata folder and pointer the new docker to that. That wouldn't solve the unRAID potential problems, but it would the SageTV issues making it easy to use the production docker or the test docker.

You can duplicate your existing sagetv template... and then start a second sagetv OR shutdown the primary sagetv and start the second one using the same appdata location.

Originally Posted by wayner

What is taking over the share from Java? Python?

JavaScript, C, C++, C# and Python all being highly rated as well... Even Java right now still have #2 or #3 spots... I just see it going downhill quickly. Personally, if I were starting a project today, I'd probably be looking at javascript (nodejs) over java. Python would be OK, but, it's a different style of language that I personally hate

[phantomii]

Thanks so much for all the efforts in updating the Unraid SageTV Docker container. A few quick questions for the masses......

1. Is there any opinion which version (11 or 16) is better or more compatible to use?

2. Will the Plugins all be available and load if we attempt to load them? I am doing a fresh install......

3. I assume that OpenDCT has not yet been updated to use Github yet? Please confirm, and if it has not been done yet do we know if there is any ETA?

4. Any other Gotcha's at this time to setting up a new SageTV Unraid Docker and having it properly function?

Thanks again for all the effort here. I am anxious to finish setting up my Unraid Server and shutting down my old Linux SageTV Server!

[wnjj]

OpenDCT is on GitHub (https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...postcount=2868), unless you are referring to the docker container looking for it on GitHub.

[phantomii]

Originally Posted by wnjj

OpenDCT is on GitHub (https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...postcount=2868), unless you are referring to the docker container looking for it on GitHub.

Yes, I was looking to add a OpenDCT Docker. Is it possible yet? Everything else seems to have set up well so far but without OpenDCT not sure I can set up my HDHR Primes.....

[Zogg]

Originally Posted by stuckless

The image also adds in telnet and python

Telnet or telnetd (telnet server)? I only see the telnet client but I would think you are referring to telnet server. If you DID install telnetd, how do you configure it?

[JREkiwi]

Originally Posted by phantomii

2. Will the Plugins all be available and load if we attempt to load them? I am doing a fresh install......

By default, there are a large number of plugins that are pointing to the now defunct bintray. The V9 repository has been updated to include all plugins and updated download locations for the currently available plugins.

I didn't change the version on the plugins copied to the V9 repository as that would cause everyone with the plugin already installed to get notified of an updated version, however the V7 repository takes precedence. Change this line in sage.properties as a workaround

sagetv_repos/v7/local=SageTVPlugins.xml
to
sagetv_repos/v7/local=SageTVPluginsV9.xml

John

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by Zogg

Telnet or telnetd (telnet server)? I only see the telnet client but I would think you are referring to telnet server. If you DID install telnetd, how do you configure it?

I just installed the telnet client... I interpreted the question "does it have telnet" to mean does it have a telnet client.

[Zogg]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I just installed the telnet client... I interpreted the question "does it have telnet" to mean does it have a telnet client.

No problem, was just curious.

On another note, the SageAlert 2.x plugin web interface isn't working properly anymore. The alerts themselves are working, but in the web i/f where you should be able to see the list of actions, there's nothing. Not sure if this is related to the Java issue or not since it's been a few months since I used this i/f.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by Zogg

No problem, was just curious.

On another note, the SageAlert 2.x plugin web interface isn't working properly anymore. The alerts themselves are working, but in the web i/f where you should be able to see the list of actions, there's nothing. Not sure if this is related to the Java issue or not since it's been a few months since I used this i/f.

Yeah, not surprised... I'm pretty sure it uses GSP (groovy server pages) and that is not working as of java 11+ (as well as web apps that use JSP (java server pages)). It seems like the entire Jetty server needs to redone using a modern install. It is running Jetty 6 and there isn't even listed on their site anymore. I'm doubtful anyone is going to take on that challenge at this point.

We are sort stuck in this crossroads... SageTV itself has no issues moving to Java 16, but the plugins, which people depend on are stuck at java 8, even most of the plugins are ok... it's just the web plugins that going to give the most troubles.

I was surprised that BMT ran in Java16, but it doesn't use anything other than standard HTTP servlets. Sagex API works, but again, it just uses servlet. The webserver works mostly, except for some newer parts that people added using gsp and jsp.

[Zogg]

Originally Posted by stuckless

Yeah, not surprised... I'm pretty sure it uses GSP (groovy server pages) and that is not working as of java 11+ (as well as web apps that use JSP (java server pages)). It seems like the entire Jetty server needs to redone using a modern install. It is running Jetty 6 and there isn't even listed on their site anymore. I'm doubtful anyone is going to take on that challenge at this point.

We are sort stuck in this crossroads... SageTV itself has no issues moving to Java 16, but the plugins, which people depend on are stuck at java 8, even most of the plugins are ok... it's just the web plugins that going to give the most troubles.

I was surprised that BMT ran in Java16, but it doesn't use anything other than standard HTTP servlets. Sagex API works, but again, it just uses servlet. The webserver works mostly, except for some newer parts that people added using gsp and jsp.

Thanks for confirming. I think I'm going to roll back the whole thing to a prior backup tomorrow that was still on Java 8 to avoid more issues.

And thanks for the detailed explanation. We are definitely at a decision point it seems, keep bandaid-ing things or update at least the critical parts if someone will take on the challenge.