Information on SAGE 3.0 Release? (mostly complaints from before info was released)

[Opus4]

Stanger89 already covered the concept of what's included in the "technology" vs. what's included in the "product".

As for why a company isn't allowed to decide to keep development private until closer to being ready for release... get real. You think companies don't decide every day that they have a great idea & want to keep it to themselves lest someone else run with the same concept? You don't think companies have plans that they don't want to annouce yet because there is always the possibility that those plans will change - and if the initial plans had been announced, there would be great disappointment, so let's wait for things to be more complete/certain to be done before making a public announcement? The never-ending gripes about Studio show that they should have done exactly what I just said: not even talked about it until it was ready for public release. There is no "right to know"; companies release information when they are ready to do so - and I'm talking about companies in general, not just Frey.

- Andy

[Opus4]

See Dan's recent post: Official SageTV 3.0 Information.

- Andy

[mls]

Can't say I say one single thing in Dan's post that could not have been open to the public over 6 months ago. Hopefully, now that they got over all the foolish nonsense maybe they'll buckle down and get back on track working on the rest of the things they've pushed off to the side (or simply ignored).

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mls

Can't say I say one single thing in Dan's post that could not have been open to the public over 6 months ago.

If they'd have said something 6 months ago, we'd have been seeing bitching an moaning about "when's it coming" for at least the last 3 months.

[r00st3r]

Oh the Official 3.0 thread is out....
Well, then please disregard all my previous posts..
REJOICE!!!!

Did you notice the sarcasm in my font?


WTF Spring??? just kidding...

[jptaz]

You know we can all complain all we want, but when it comes down to it we have a far better product than is available from other companies. Since the release of the OSD SDK, which they have clearly been generous in distributing, we have several features that are not as well implemented in any other platform.

1. We have nearly full support of SageTV on the MediaMVP thanks to Matt - complain all you want about not having DIVX or DVD support, but the Interface on the MediaMVP feels identical to my main SageTVClient. While GBPVR has MediaMVP support the GUI is not as polished and neither is the navigation and usability (no offense meant to sub)

2. We have a really good OSD on the XCard which so far has worked perfectly for me and I may blame ErsatzTom for having to replace the bulb in my projector sooner than I planned. While it does not support all the media files yet or DVD it still feels more usable than TVedia or GBPVR. I am frankly amazed that 8Dim can think of charging $60 for Tvedia for how poor a PVR it is. Not to offer EPG data in the US is pathetic and frankly having to use a seperate program to change the encoder settings makes it unusable in my book. The whole thing feels clunky and unwieldy. They basically have completely limited themselves because they tied the extent of the commands they support to the remote that comes with the XCard. Navigation is poor at best. When I originally used JovePlayer I thought it was great because it was only $20 a year and worked great at pointing at my network share where my 4 copies of WinTVCap dumped recordings. I never used the DVD player feature, but I am guessing it was pretty solid. From my latest download of Tvedia 3.2 I have seen nothing that even comes close to the quality of BeyondTV or SageTV which are offered at similar Price points via PCAlchemy.com ( Ok $5 more ).

3. Web capability, haven't tried it but it was one of the big complaints by BeyondTV people. Yeah you have to open a port on your PC but it is not like you can't have it use a less common port to make it less vulernable to port scanners and with a good firewall and virus software which you had better have anyone your PC will be fine.

Yeah these things took longer than I would have liked, but frankly considering the fact that 2 years ago I was using JovePlayer and Network shares and now I have SageTV running with 2 PC based clients and 2 MediaMVP based Clients as well as being able to use the server for watching I think they are doing pretty dam good.

Since Frey has been on the market they given SnapStream a major run for their money and forced them to play catchup on several fronts - Support for Hardware based MPEG2 encoders, Support for Multiple Tuners(Priced such that it forces customers to buy cards from them), Support for a client(BeyondTVLink - Wonder how Stable that ;0 )

Yeah I want my HDTV support, and I want things to happen faster but frankly even if SageTV had support tomorrow for HDTV Recording I am not so sure I would be so eager to drop all that dough on a card that may only ever get me OTA support and will demmand a pretty powerfull processor since none of the good one support hardware decode while recording.

Just a humble rant from someone who has been a mostly happy SageTV using since Version 1.2.8 in May of 2003

John

[mightyt]

Here we go again ...

Nothing useful to add ... just more adolescent whining and temper tantrums ...

Hey I hear MS has a great forum that you can post on ...

Dude ... Get outa town ...

[Cayars]

What wasn't useful about his post? I didn't see any adolescent whining or any tantrums. What I saw was a very well thought out and realist post.

[Opus4]

The way I look at it is... There will always be complaints about any software. As long as complaints are written in a civilized manner and aren't disrupting discussions of other topics, I don't see why anyone should be run off. So, let's leave that idea alone for now.

- Andy

[mayamaniac]

I think or assume mightyt's post was directed towards r00st3r because r00st3r started this thread with an "adolescent whining and temper tantrums" tone and continued to be that way with subsequent posts. It was nothing against jptaz's post.

[mightyt]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

I think or assume mightyt's post was directed towards r00st3r because r00st3r started this thread with an "adolescent whining and temper tantrums" tone and continued to be that way with subsequent posts. It was nothing against jptaz's post.

Thank you mayamaniac! You hit the nail on the head. I was NOT referring to jptaz at all.

Outside of what you clearly pointed out ... I think inappropriate language ... even in acronym fashion should not be tolerated by the moderator.
To me that "is" uncivilized ...

Apparently Andy doesn't see it that way ... OK, he’s the man …

And for the record, I don't mind occasional complaints and constructive criticism, but some make it a life long mission to the point that the repetitiveness makes you sick.

The exchange of ideas here can be outstanding and I have benefited personally by that. The advice and recommendations here for the most part have been awesome and productive. But, getting drawn in to thread after thread that appears to be promising only to see it veer off track to a tantrum provides no real value, other than letting someone rant on and on. Generally they never listen to the reason of others, though many try to turn it in to a worthwhile discussion.

I mentioned this before, and if complaints are considered acceptable at any cost, why not create a forum section for Complaints. This way everyone knows what it is, those that want to post there can do so and those that want to participate in them know what to expect. However, those that would rather benefit by the free exchange of technical ideas can be assured they won’t inadvertently get caught in the spiders web ...

OK, I have to be careful ... Am I ranting about ranting?

[zz5]

mightyt,

If that's the way you feel, that's fine, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but if that's your opinion, it's wrong. You seem to be saying that you don't like all the complaining. That's interesting, because I'm just on the opposite end here. I for one have been enjoying the complaining. Let's not go trying to shut down the complaining and the discussion and the thing. We need to allow the discussion to resolve itself of its own volition. I've really gotten a lot out of this discussion. I always hate it when someone tries to shut down a thread early because it's kind of like reading a book and quitting before you read the last page.

I don't think we need a complaints forum. What if you wanted to complain about SageRecorder, for example? Where would that discussion go? Would it go into the complaints forum or the SageRecorder forum? I guess the moderators would have to decide whether it was more complaints or more SageRecorder. Depending on how it balanced out, they'd have to move it back and forth between those two forums as the discussion progressed. Moderators would be jumping in and saying things like, "Okay, this is going back over to the SageRecorder forum". This is something I've thought about with other topics too. What if I want to talk about Sage Recorder and Sage TV in the same thread. Where does that thread go?

[walts81]

Originally Posted by zz5

...but if that's your opinion, it's wrong.

LOL!
Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of an opinion? An opinion is a personal view. So can you really have a wrong opinion?

[kny3twalker]

well whatever
I have read this whole thread and please do not make a complaint section for the forum
thats stupid and ridiculous
but thats just my opinion

[Radar]

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

but thats just my opinion

Too bad you're wrong!

[walts81]

Originally Posted by Radar

Too bad you're wrong!

[mightyt]

Originally Posted by zz5

mightyt,

If that's the way you feel, that's fine, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but if that's your opinion, it's wrong. You seem to be saying that you don't like all the complaining. That's interesting, because I'm just on the opposite end here. I for one have been enjoying the complaining. Let's not go trying to shut down the complaining and the discussion and the thing. We need to allow the discussion to resolve itself of its own volition. I've really gotten a lot out of this discussion. I always hate it when someone tries to shut down a thread early because it's kind of like reading a book and quitting before you read the last page.

I don't think we need a complaints forum. What if you wanted to complain about SageRecorder, for example? Where would that discussion go? Would it go into the complaints forum or the SageRecorder forum? I guess the moderators would have to decide whether it was more complaints or more SageRecorder. Depending on how it balanced out, they'd have to move it back and forth between those two forums as the discussion progressed. Moderators would be jumping in and saying things like, "Okay, this is going back over to the SageRecorder forum". This is something I've thought about with other topics too. What if I want to talk about Sage Recorder and Sage TV in the same thread. Where does that thread go?

OK, I can see your point in the difficulty of managing complaints. Never said that was easy. Please don't hear what I am not saying ... as I had said; an occasional complaint about SageRecorder is not what I am talking about. It's the constant, repetitive, relentless, on and on threads that really become more badgering than stating just ones opinion one time. If you read these, they eventually get people upset because it eventually gets somewhat personal, losing the point only causing someone to restate the point and stating the whole cycle over again. And then just when you think it is safe to back in the forum the same repeat the same process in another thread, often about the very same subject. This, "to me" takes the joy out of the exchange.

I would think that if you found these beneficial you would like to see a complaint section for these tirades. And certainly identifying what the complaint is about could be in the post title. Then you can jump in that sandbox.

But, if you didn't you'd also have someplace to go ...

I figure if I my opinion is wrong (paraphrasing Walts81, didn't know one could be?? ...and I agree) or if I am bringing up stupid and ridiculous ideas, maybe it's because I pushed a button or two for folks who enjoy and perpetuate threads like that. I just thought that a complaint category would make everyone happy. If I felt like whining, I’d have a place to go and if I don't, I don't have to endure it.

But in any case I think foul language in any exchange should not be tolerated, period. Apparently, it's allowed ...

I only replied here for clarity sake, not to be misunderstood, but will leave it at that. I made my point and don't need to go over it again and again. That will probably make some happy and some not so happy ...

T.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by zz5

What if you wanted to complain about SageRecorder, for example? Where would that discussion go? Would it go into the complaints forum or the SageRecorder forum? I guess the moderators would have to decide whether it was more complaints or more SageRecorder. Depending on how it balanced out, they'd have to move it back and forth between those two forums as the discussion progressed. Moderators would be jumping in and saying things like, "Okay, this is going back over to the SageRecorder forum".

Just great... now you've changed the topic & I'm going to have to move this to the SageTV Recorder forum.

What if I want to talk about Sage Recorder and Sage TV in the same thread. Where does that thread go?

Don't do that to me... I'll have to keep moving it back & forth, depending on the latest post.

-----

Seriously, though... this forum is a fairly open forum with very little censorship going on. About the only time posts get deleted/edited are when someone really gets out of hand in terms of personal attacks, spam (we don't get too much of that, so far), contains content of questionable legality (such as: would you upload last night's show?), and duplicate postings, among other possibilities. Threads get moved based on the initial topic for that thread -- and then only if it seems clear that it belongs in another forum. Sometimes dicussions get split from one thread to another. I don't see the need for a separate complaints forum -- Don't want to argue with someone you disagree with? That's easy: don't. It is most likely that neither of you will change your mind anyway. As for right or wrong opinions... I'm not sure if I actually believe what I just wrote, but it is currently my opinion.

- Andy

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by Opus4

<snip>
As for right or wrong opinions... I'm not sure if I actually believe what I just wrote, but it is currently my opinion.

- Andy

[salsbst]

I second the motion for a 'Complaints' sub-forum.