Does the same episode get recorded repeatedly?

[stanger89]

Yes, because Sage has no idea then (the guide data is "incomplete") whether a particular airing is the same or different.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Yes, because Sage has no idea then (the guide data is "incomplete") whether a particular airing is the same or different.

hmmm. you'd think Sage would see that if a recording already existed with the SAME ShowID, it would know not to record a second time...

[stanger89]

The problem is, when a show is using Show ID (SH####), every airing has the same ID, even if the shows as broadcast are different. If Sage stopped recording a SH#### show if one already existed on the hard drive, it would miss a lot of airings of unique shows.

If you really want only one of a SH#### to be recorded at a time, you can set Keep At Most to 1 and Turn off Auto Delete (I think that's right).

If the guide data provides an Episode ID (EP####) then Sage works as you would expect, and only records that Episode if it's not Watched (or Don't Like) and not already on disk.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The problem is, when a show is using Show ID (SH####), every airing has the same ID, even if the shows as broadcast are different. If Sage stopped recording a SH#### show if one already existed on the hard drive, it would miss a lot of airings of unique shows.

If you really want only one of a SH#### to be recorded at a time, you can set Keep At Most to 1 and Turn off Auto Delete (I think that's right).

If the guide data provides an Episode ID (EP####) then Sage works as you would expect, and only records that Episode if it's not Watched (or Don't Like) and not already on disk.

That's one of the problems (from the broadcasters side): Fox Sports is giving each repeat a different EP####, so Sage is recording every, single airing

[stanger89]

Sage is at the mercy of the guide data. Crappy guide data means sub-optimal operation.

[HelenWeathers]

You can enter EP\d+ under keyword in a favorite's setup detail to skip recording of shows that don't have episode data.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

You can enter EP\d+ under keyword in a favorite's setup detail to skip recording of shows that don't have episode data.

good to know. but in this case I think they just have bad data 😕

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

good to know. but in this case I think they just have bad data 😕

Just wanted to point out, I should have said "don't have episode IDs". You're right of course that this won't help you with your Fox example where repeat airings have differing IDs.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

Just wanted to point out, I should have said "don't have episode IDs". You're right of course that this won't help you with your Fox example where repeat airings have differing IDs.

where did you get that fun code from, is it in the manual, and if so, are there more groovy codes that do neat stuff?

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Sage is at the mercy of the guide data. Crappy guide data means sub-optimal operation.

here's an example of what Sage web server notes about the show: The first show of a new day, and the first repeat:

ShowID: SH023661880000 (all airings)

First airing: Internal details: MediaFileID=56902353 , AiringID=56651201

first repeat: Internal details: MediaFileID=56902358 , AiringID=56651202

so that stinks I guess...

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

where did you get that fun code from, is it in the manual, and if so, are there more groovy codes that do neat stuff?

I'm sad to say I don't remember where I picked that up. I've used it a lot especially for multi season series shows on OTA sub channels where the guide data shows no episode info - only the name of the series and brief series info so there is no episode ID generated for that airing.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

here's an example of what Sage web server notes about the show: The first show of a new day, and the first repeat:

ShowID: SH023661880000 (all airings)

First airing: Internal details: MediaFileID=56902353 , AiringID=56651201

first repeat: Internal details: MediaFileID=56902358 , AiringID=56651202

so that stinks I guess...

Seems like the information you've been posting is a little inconsistent (or at least you are confusing the various types of IDs). In one post you said they all had unique Episode ID's, but in a more recent post you said they all had the same ShowID (and didn't list an episode ID).

So, the ShowID you listed (the one that starts with "SH") is the one provided by the guide data. The MediaFileId and AiringID are created by Sage to track things in Wiz.bin.

That showID is the one that is important for determining how Sage will handle things. If it starts with "SH" that indicates a "show". This type of ID is usually reserved for programs that have no unique guide data, but may or may not be unique. A good example would be the nightly news. This is something that by nature will be a unique / new show every day (no re-runs), yet it doesn't really make sense to have unique guide data for every "episode", so every airing will probably have the same show id and same data. In this case, Sage can't really tell if a particular airing is a duplicate or not. By default it will record every time, just to be sure it doesn't miss something.

The only way to control this is to do as mentioned in a previous post and set the "Keep at Most" to "1". Even this is not perfect since the Sage schedule only runs periodically. When it runs, if it sees that you have fewer recordings than the keep at most number, it will schedule all the future airings that it sees. If it sees that the number of recordings you have is greater or equal to the keep at most #, it will remove any future airings from the recording schedule. But, since the scheduler only runs periodically (once a day, I think, unless there are changes to the channel lineup), if there are many airings on back to back, it may record more than the keep at most value.

If it starts with "EP" that indicates an "episode". This type of ID is usually used for TV Series. New episodes should have unique EPxxx IDs, while re-runs should have the same EPxxx ID. If Sage sees this, it can track the episode and only record it once.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

I'm sad to say I don't remember where I picked that up. I've used it a lot especially for multi season series shows on OTA sub channels where the guide data shows no episode info - only the name of the series and brief series info so there is no episode ID generated for that airing.

sorry, I'm a bit thick on this: so by entering the code, you achieve what exactly on those sub channels? If a network hasn't supplied any episode data, this enables that all episodes get recorded?

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

sorry, I'm a bit thick on this: so by entering the code, you achieve what exactly on those sub channels? If a network hasn't supplied any episode data, this enables that all episodes get recorded?

No. If there is no EPISODE ID for a tv show listing then that tv episode/guide listing is not recorded at all.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Seems like the information you've been posting is a little inconsistent (or at least you are confusing the various types of IDs). In one post you said they all had unique Episode ID's, but in a more recent post you said they all had the same ShowID (and didn't list an episode ID).

So, the ShowID you listed (the one that starts with "SH") is the one provided by the guide data. The MediaFileId and AiringID are created by Sage to track things in Wiz.bin.

That showID is the one that is important for determining how Sage will handle things. If it starts with "SH" that indicates a "show". This type of ID is usually reserved for programs that have no unique guide data, but may or may not be unique. A good example would be the nightly news. This is something that by nature will be a unique / new show every day (no re-runs), yet it doesn't really make sense to have unique guide data for every "episode", so every airing will probably have the same show id and same data. In this case, Sage can't really tell if a particular airing is a duplicate or not. By default it will record every time, just to be sure it doesn't miss something.

The only way to control this is to do as mentioned in a previous post and set the "Keep at Most" to "1". Even this is not perfect since the Sage schedule only runs periodically. When it runs, if it sees that you have fewer recordings than the keep at most number, it will schedule all the future airings that it sees. If it sees that the number of recordings you have is greater or equal to the keep at most #, it will remove any future airings from the recording schedule. But, since the scheduler only runs periodically (once a day, I think, unless there are changes to the channel lineup), if there are many airings on back to back, it may record more than the keep at most value.

If it starts with "EP" that indicates an "episode". This type of ID is usually used for TV Series. New episodes should have unique EPxxx IDs, while re-runs should have the same EPxxx ID. If Sage sees this, it can track the episode and only record it once.

Ok. They all have the same ShowID, every show, every repeat, every day of the week.

regarding the EP#, if what I'm seeing in Sage Webserver isn't the EP info, where do I find that, under "Edit Metadata"? The Episode ID there is 0, as is the Season.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

No. If there is no EPISODE ID for a tv show listing then that tv episode/guide listing is not recorded at all.

got it. so you'd use this to have Sage ignore airings where metadata didn't include specifics, but recordings would be made from channels supplying ID info...

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Ok. They all have the same ShowID, every show, every repeat, every day of the week.

regarding the EP#, if what I'm seeing in Sage Webserver isn't the EP info, where do I find that, under "Edit Metadata"? The Episode ID there is 0, as is the Season.

In edit metadata you're seeing episode number not episode ID. Episode ID is a unique identifier for each episode used to find season and episode numbers that you see in the metadata. No episode ID = no season number and no episode number (and you see zeros or blanks in those metadata fields)

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

In edit metadata you're seeing episode number not episode ID. Episode ID is a unique identifier for each episode used to find season and episode numbers that you see in the metadata. No episode ID = no season number and no episode number (and you see zeros or blanks in those metadata fields)

so where, using what, can you physically see the number which appears for Episode ID, if it exists? For example, I have a recording of 'The Grinder'. Would the Episode ID for this be in the metadata?

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

so where, using what, can you physically see the number which appears for Episode ID, if it exists? For example, I have a recording of 'The Grinder'. Would the Episode ID for this be in the metadata?

Episode IDs can come from the guide data provider or can be found at tvdb or imdb if the episode name is in the guide data. Sage must know at the time of the recording what the episode id is to include it in the file's metadata when the file is created.

If the episode id is present it will show up in sage when you view recording detail and will show under Show ID: and start with the letters EP in the case of a series episode. (SH is for shows without episode numbering and MV is for movies)

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

Episode IDs can come from the guide data provider or can be found at tvdb or imdb if the episode name is in the guide data. Sage must know at the time of the recording what the episode id is to include it in the file's metadata when the file is created.

If the episode id is present it will show up in sage when you view recording detail and will show under Show ID: and start with the letters EP in the case of a series episode. (SH is for shows without episode numbering and MV is for movies)

brilliant. thanks