Need input on server & frontend builds....

[rob.sfo]

I've just bought myself a new home & been given the go-ahead by the fiancée to completely purge & rebuild my home theatre (current setup works well but it's damn ugly ). Here's what I'm planning:

• Backend Server - This will be used for Sage recording (SD & HD), a music server, DVD library, web server and whatever else I might throw at it. I already have ~300GBs worth of music & ~120 DVDs (yet to be ripped - figure ~4Gb per DVD, that's another ~500GB). So that's about 7-800GB used already, before factoring in Sage recordings & future growth. Therefore, I want to build a server that's going to last awhile & have the ability to grow with me.
• Front-end Sage / Gaming Rig - For my frontend, my #1 driving factor is the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor). So it's gotta look good (and function well, quietly). It's also going to be used as a gaming machine, which pushes the requirements much further than for a simple front-end.

So anyway, here's what I've thrown together so far. I'd appreciate any feedback you might have for me.

Backend Media Server -

• Case - Cooler Master STCT01UW CM Stacker Extended ATX Mid-Tower - $177.95 - LOTS of expansion, great features, cooling, etc.
• PSU - Seasonic S12-500 PSU (x2) - $293.26 - I've read nothing but good things about these PSUs
• MB - TYAN Tomcat i915G, P4-800 FSB, Intel 915G - $182.95 - Solid server-class MBs
• Proc - Intel Pentium 4 630 w/ HT Technology - 3.0GHz - $245.62
• RAM - Corsair 1GB PC3200 DDR DIMM Memory (x2) - $268.00
• Cool - Coolmaster Aquagate ALC-U01 - $208.23
• RAID - LSI Logic MEGARAID 300-8X 8PORT SATA II - $451.55 - Going with the 8-port RAID adaptor so I can grow the system as my Video, Music & DVD collection grows.
• HD - Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 400GB 8MB (x4) - $1203.76
• DVD - Lite-On 16x DVD & Lite-On 4xDVD +/- RW - $60.00
• Capture - SageTV/PVR-500MCE (x2) - $199.95 - Two of these will give me 4 SD recording channels. HD capture handled via Firewire from the Comcast HD cable box. Question here...if I'm going this route is there any need for an HD OTA card? I don't think so but I want to be sure I'm not forgetting something.
• Total - $3491.22

Here's the HTPC / Gaming rig -

• Case - Accent HT-400S - $385.00 - or iUneed x15e HTPC case - $599.00 - I'm undecided between these two cases. I love the iUneed, but I'm not sure yet if it's worth the $$.
• PSU - Seasonic S12-500 PSU - $146.63
• MB - MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum - $139.00
• Proc - AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Processor - $386.00
• RAM - Corsair 1GB TWINX1024-4400C25 / DDR-550 (XMS-4400) / 2.5-4-4-8 - $219.00
• HD - Seagate ST3120827AS Barracuda 7200.7 SATA NCQ 120GB - $90.86
• DVD - Lite-On 16x DVD & Lite-On 4xDVD +/- RW - $60.00
• Vid - GIGABYTE GV-RX80L256V Radeon X800XL - $339.51 - Chose this card because of the fanless cooling (see the pic below)
• Cool - Zalman CNPS7700 - $48.70
• KB - Keyboard: BTC 9019URF Wireless Multimedia Keyboard - $44.95
• Total - $2090.00 (with the Accent case....add ~$250 for the iUneed)

That's what I've got so far. I'm admittedly not completely up-to-date on the latest & greatest though (it's been a few years since I built my last PC), so I appreciate the feedback.

Some pics of the various items below...

Thanks,
Rob

[mdmint]

Seems respectable setup. I assume, and hate to assume, you plan to network hardwired gigabit. HTPC vid card wise unless definitely want ATI there are also fanless Nvidia based cards some are using and quite happy with.

[dvd_maniac]

Just a reccomendation for your DVD collection.

120 DVDs (yet to be ripped - figure ~4Gb per DVD, that's another ~500GB).

Most DVDs are more like 7GB unless your talking movie only. If this is the case I would reccomend encoding the movies into AVC\H.264 or Xvid. I have over 700 DVDs on my server in AVC format and it is only taking up 300GB.
I still have 400 DVDs to go and have plenty of room for the future.

Just 2cents, for what it's worth...

[stanger89]

No offense to dvd_maniac (we discussed this in another thread), but I would not consider a 300MB DVD rip acceptable for a theater, heck, 300MB is about as low as I'd go for a 1/2 hour show (usually 20-25min of video).

If you rip movie-only, with no recompression (the only way I'd go), plan on about 5GB/movie, I've got 235 DVDs that take up about 1.2TB of my array.

Onto your setup:
The server
Looks good for the most part, but you really don't need that much power, and I'm still reluctant to use any Pentium newer than the Northwood core, they just seem to keep going down hill. If you really need new parts for it, I'd go with an Athlon 64 (optionally an Opteron) with either a nForce3 or nForce4 board (do not consider anything but nVidia or AMD chipsets for AMD processors).

One more thing, I just found these the other day, if I were building today, this is probably the route I'd go:
http://www.3dcool.com/Details.asp?cid=16&id=471

The Client
I've got a few comments
I see quiet was a big deal...

Here's the HTPC / Gaming rig -

* Case - Accent HT-400S - $385.00 - or iUneed x15e HTPC case - $599.00 - I'm undecided between these two cases. I love the iUneed, but I'm not sure yet if it's worth the $$.
* PSU - Seasonic S12-500 PSU - $146.63

Ditch this, get an Antec Phantom. It's got plenty of power, and is completly silent, also runs nice and cool.

* MB - MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum - $139.00

I'll never touch another MSI board again, every one I've had has had compatibility problems with various AGP cards, and my last board dropped half a stick of ram (the stick's fine the board isn't). In your case, I'd consider an Abit Fatal1ty A8N, although being not an overclocker I'm not a big fan (oops! pun) of their cooling.

* Proc - AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Processor - $386.00

You could get an A64 X2, but probably wouldn't be as fast for most single use stuff

* RAM - Corsair 1GB TWINX1024-4400C25 / DDR-550 (XMS-4400) / 2.5-4-4-8 - $219.00

Mmmm, Corsair

* HD - Seagate ST3120827AS Barracuda 7200.7 SATA NCQ 120GB - $90.86

Ditch this, too loud, get a laptop drive, I've got a Toshiba 40GB in my client, nice and quiet.

* DVD - Lite-On 16x DVD & Lite-On 4xDVD +/- RW - $60.00
* Vid - GIGABYTE GV-RX80L256V Radeon X800XL - $339.51 - Chose this card because of the fanless cooling (see the pic below)

If you don't need component output I'd go with this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125142

* Cool - Zalman CNPS7700 - $48.70
* KB - Keyboard: BTC 9019URF Wireless Multimedia Keyboard - $44.95
* Total - $2090.00 (with the Accent case....add ~$250 for the iUneed)

You forgot a very important part, if you want a quiet HTPC/client, you need a good fan controller. You will want one of these:
http://www.3dcool.com/Details.asp?cid=441&id=1104
Then get a few good 80mm case fans, and run all your fans off this, and you'll have a nice quiet, (maybe almost silent) HTPC/client. The beautiful thing about the T-Balancer, is that it gives you just enough cooling not too much, not too little, so your PC stays nice and quiet, while remaining cool. I'd venture that it would be essentailly silent (with the components above) while using SageTV, and then when you game, it will ramp up to keep your temperatures in check.

[Grey_Goose]

Here's the case I've been looking at:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811163036
Two fans on the drive cage, and an option of two fans on your pvr cards.
Integrated temp display/controls.

I spent some time looking at the CM Stacker at Fry's, and just wasn't feeling it. I also wasn't thrilled with having to buy 5.25->3.5 adapters just to mount my drives. I loved the triple 80's in front (I have 6 IDE drives & 1 15K SCSI drive in my server), but like i said, just wasn't feeling it.

Where are you getting two PVR-500's for $199 ?

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by Grey_Goose

Where are you getting two PVR-500's for $199 ?

That is a VERY good question!

[rob.sfo]

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. I'm moving this weekend & don't have time yet for a full response, but re: the price on the PVR-500s...I just forgot to update the the line item for those (too much copy-paste in excel) - the price I listed was for a single 500 bundled w/ Sage (this from a previous revision of a single-box HTPC solution). Best I can find for this card is ~$140 each.

I'll rework things based on your suggestions & come back with rev 2 in a couple days.

Cheers,
Rob

[rob.sfo]

Mdmint -

• yes, I will be using a wired gig network. I'll have wireless as well, but everything that can be wired will be wired.

stanger89 - Thanks for all the tips, I really appreciate your input. Some additional questions on your comments...

• On the MB/CPU front, I was leaning towards Intel for the server due to the advantage those chips have over AMD on video processing/encoding/etc. AMDs are great for front-ends & gaming machines, keeping heat & cost down, but for a backend server I tend to lean more towards Intel. I'll do some research on your recommendations though.
  
• Thanks for pointing out that Lian-Li server case. That thing is nice.
  
• The Antec Phantom looks really nice too. Thanks again.
  
• I hadn't thought of using a laptop drive in the front-end. That's an interesting idea. My only issue is this front-end will also be used for gaming, so it needs decent performance. I've not seen any direct comparisons between desktop & laptop drives...can you shed any additional light?
  
• The Abit Fatal1ty A8N looks like a sweet board - I read a number of reviews and they all tend to agree...rock-solid performer.
  
• Regarding the video card - I'm re-entering the building world after an extended hiatus, so I'm still trying to edumacate myself on all this. Can you explain in a bit more detail why you suggest that card over the one I spec'd out? What are your thoughts on AGP vs PCI-E?
  
• Thanks for the T-Balancer link...that looks like a mandatory option for an HTPC.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by rob.sfo

Mdmint -

• yes, I will be using a wired gig network. I'll have wireless as well, but everything that can be wired will be wired.

stanger89 - Thanks for all the tips, I really appreciate your input. Some additional questions on your comments...

• On the MB/CPU front, I was leaning towards Intel for the server due to the advantage those chips have over AMD on video processing/encoding/etc. AMDs are great for front-ends & gaming machines, keeping heat & cost down, but for a backend server I tend to lean more towards Intel. I'll do some research on your recommendations though.

• Intel/AMD is really a tossup, basically, I just think Intel has been making the P4 worse with each new core since the Northwood, so I'm reluctant to use them . A couple points to consider:
  With Sage, your server doesn't do any encoding with the CPU, the cards take care of that.
  The Athlon 64 X2s are kicking intel but in just about everything
  
  My main point though, was that I don't think you really need that much power for a Sage server.
  
  

  Thanks for pointing out that Lian-Li server case. That thing is nice.

  /drool
  

  The Antec Phantom looks really nice too. Thanks again.

  I'm loving mine
  

  I hadn't thought of using a laptop drive in the front-end. That's an interesting idea. My only issue is this front-end will also be used for gaming, so it needs decent performance. I've not seen any direct comparisons between desktop & laptop drives...can you shed any additional light?

  Can't really shed much light on gaming performance (that's what the Xbox is for ). But I'd say that, asside from loading times, the HDD is not a limiting factor in gaming performance, it's not really something I'd personally be worried about. Plus, you can get pretty fast laptop drives these days, my Toshiba has 8Mb cache, 4200 RPM IIRC, I don't really notice anything vs the WD SE I had in it before, but like I said, I don't game on it.
  

  The Abit Fatal1ty A8N looks like a sweet board - I read a number of reviews and they all tend to agree...rock-solid performer.

  I've had nothing but good luck with Abit boards, highly recommended, as long as you stick with Intel or nVidia chipsets. Sidenote, anybody else find it funny that VIA boards look like they'll need a board rev to support the new A64 X2s? while nForce boards look to be fine
  

  Regarding the video card - I'm re-entering the building world after an extended hiatus, so I'm still trying to edumacate myself on all this. Can you explain in a bit more detail why you suggest that card over the one I spec'd out? What are your thoughts on AGP vs PCI-E?

  Probably because I prefer nVidia to ATI, and it's passive, plus I have one, so I'm biased
  

  Thanks for the T-Balancer link...that looks like a mandatory option for an HTPC.

Couldn't agree more.

[GbrNole]

stanger is showing off again

the one thing i noticed that was missing from your list is/are remote control(s) for your client(s).

this is actually the area i'm considering too now as i'm in the process of expanding my single tuner pvr-250 (w/ hauppauge remote) into a 4 tuner plus 1 hd tuner server/client setup.

the usb-uirt is probably the way to go but i have two issues.
1. i'm cheap
2. mce still eats away at me.

so i can't quite make my mind up if i should get a 3 pack of mce 2005 remotes and use girder or if i should get that same 3-pack and a 3-pack of usb-uirt's as well?

i'd take the easy option and use streamzap but i really like mlbdude's sagemc_169 .stv and naylia's integration of xlobby looks very promising from a media cataloging standpoint (mostly for ripped and transcoded movies for the kids). the streamzap isn't so great for sagemc since it doesn't have a back button and i don't want to use a macro button as a back button.

also i'm not so sure the streamzap would play very nicely with xlobby?

anyone got any better ideas or able to help guide my slightly blind self?

[rob.sfo]

Thanks for the prompt & thorough replies. You can show off as much as you want in my opinion.

You're right GbrNole - I haven't even begun my remote research yet. I figured that's a whole'nuther can of worms and I'm more focused on getting my server built 1st. But I'm curious to hear what people have to say on the subject.

[rob.sfo]

Anyone have any opinions on the LSI Logic MEGARAID 300-8X 8PORT SATA II versus the 3ware Escalade 9500S-8?

Or, are there other SATA RAID cards that you'd recommend?

[GbrNole]

btw - white box pvr-500's are $130 each at mwave.com right now. that's a pretty decent saving since most reputable internet stores run around $150 per pvr-500 card.

for my server setup i used this board: FOXCONN 865G 865A01-G-6EKRS

my intention is to use 1 of the IDE channels for (master) for a 40 gig OS drive. the slave will be a 250gb for tv storage. (i really don't archive very much)

the other ide channel will be for a dvd-rom (slave) and a dvd rw (master) to make quick backups with nero recode.

i'll use the sata outputs to connect probably a pair of 400gb drives and i'll be storing my music on an outboard firewire drive.

my movie backups are all xvid for the most part ~1.3gb per movie. which is nice for a mass movie server.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by GbrNole

the streamzap isn't so great for sagemc since it doesn't have a back button and i don't want to use a macro button as a back button.

Streamzap + Girder = do whatever you want (I have exit mapped to back).

[SHS]

From what I read a lot folk high recommend 3Ware card
Well if ask me stanger89 I think the Lian Li PC-V2000 is poor design.
If you me I think Thermaltake Armor VA8000 and with 2 more front HDD cage that each hold 120mm front intake fan and maybe liquid Cooling kit
It hold up to 13 driver without the Accessory box install
http://www.thermaltake.com/xaserCase.../va8000bws.htm

[stanger89]

First cases are a very personal thing, different people like different things

But in defense of the V2000:
It takes 12 3.5" drives on tracks in the "HDD area", at the bottom, which has it's own fan(s). Plus it's all aluminum, soo good heat disipation in general. Then if you use 3.5-5.25 bay adapters, you can get another 7HDDs in there, if you go with 3-in-2 adapters that's another 10, for a total of 22 HDDs.

A review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article163-page1.html

[SHS]

Ture but the problem I see with layout with hard drive layout on buttom with one in front of the other so the 2nd drive will catch the heat from 1st drive and top all off a wall rigth after the 2nd drive tray

[stanger89]

The air goes out the bottom.