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[Kanati]

Since I repeatedly see people state that this is not an official forum for sage... And indeed it IS stated in the forum rules sticky...

Maybe it should be more apparent that this forum has nothing at all to do with Sage/Frey or whatever they call themselves now. To your credit Opus, you do state it, as I said, in the forum rules sticky. But truthfully... How many people do you really think read that thread? I'd bet very few indeed. I only read it just now to see if it was stated about the unofficial nature of this forum. I've been on enough forums and created enough of my own to know common ettiquette and rarely read individual forums' rules any more. I would bet that is the case with most people as well.

I suggest (and this is mostly for Sage as a company, and I will email them about this as well since this is... obviously... an unofficial forum...)

a) The forum state unequivocably in nice big, fat 24 point Arial Bold type somewhere prominently on each and every page that this is an unofficial forum and all real bug reports should be directed via email to sage. The forum can help tons, but it's not ever going to guarantee that a problem will ever get to Sage techs...

b) The forum should either not be linked under support on Sage's site as "our online Discussion Forums" if indeed it's not an official line for tech support. Being linked as it is implies that it is one path from their support site to official support and not just a link to other sage customers. Especially when there is one forum at least that even has "support" in it's title. Plus, with another forum titled "SageTV Community", it implies that THAT is the community and the rest of the forum is support.


It's not readily apparent to new users that the forum has very little to do with Sage support when it is linked from their site under support. And I know that when I got here and had issues I genuinely thought that I was posting messages that someone at sage would eventually see. So it should either be more apparent as being unofficial, or maybe someone at sage should more closely monitor and respond to posts that are of a tech support nature.

cc: support@sagetv.com

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Kanati

Since I repeatedly see people state that this is not an official forum for sage... And indeed it IS stated in the forum rules sticky...

Perhaps the wording is poor, because this is an official forum for SageTV, what it is not, is an official/direct line to SageTV tech support, it is a user forum.

Maybe it should be more apparent that this forum has nothing at all to do with Sage/Frey or whatever they call themselves now. To your credit Opus, you do state it, as I said, in the forum rules sticky. But truthfully... How many people do you really think read that thread? I'd bet very few indeed. I only read it just now to see if it was stated about the unofficial nature of this forum. I've been on enough forums and created enough of my own to know common ettiquette and rarely read individual forums' rules any more. I would bet that is the case with most people as well.

But it doesn't "[have]nothing at all to do with Sage/Frey." It is the official forum of SageTV.

From the SageTV support page

If you're having problems, please check our Troubleshooting FAQs or use our online Discussion Forums to interact with other SageTV customers. The new Sage Community is online and has a wealth of information with regards to customizations available for SageTV and support FAQs. If you still can't find the information you need, then please submit a support request to us.

It's a lines of defense thing, there's the FAQ for well FAQs, then there's this forum, which is an awesome resource and can answer most questions that users, especially new users, have. But it's when you get into the area of bugs and such that other users can't do anything about that you go to the final line of defence, being SageTV tech support. It's a delicate balance there, because without the forums SageTV tech support would probably be swamped with questions, be unable to offer quick answers, and probably loose customers as a result.

I suggest (and this is mostly for Sage as a company, and I will email them about this as well since this is... obviously... an unofficial forum...)

Honestly I think most users understand that tiered approach to tech support, and in fact, I think the more senior members do a good job and try to point those with problems to contact tech support when it's beyond the help of this forum.

If this post was spawned by some of my recent comments. Those were directed to the few who have been here for quite a long time and complain version after version about the same problem, expecting it to be fixed, but never report it directly to Tech support.

I think this setup works quite well, although I do (like many) miss the days when Jeff and Dan were very active on these forums, but SageTV is (I think) much bigger, and much busier than we think they are, they aren't just the 2-man company they used to be.

[Kanati]

then there's this forum, which is an awesome resource and can answer most questions that users

I think the more senior members do a good job and try to point those with problems to contact tech support when it's beyond the help of this forum.

Undeniably. The forum works well. I just don't think it's as clear as it should be that sage doesn't monitor the forums all that well and that people posting what they believe to be bug reports to sage, are really just posting them for other end-users to see. Sage may never see them.

If this post was spawned by some of my recent comments.

Not you specifically. Though I admit, yours was the last one I read. It was more in response to the fact that I see a lot of bug reports for version 3 beta that, while sage might be monitoring them relatively closely NOW, they probably won't in the future after official release of v3. And indeed, I also see posts that are obviously directed at sage itself that indicates that people believe that posting here means they are posting to the company itself. Not just bug reports, but complaints, requests, etc.

I do (like many) miss the days when Jeff and Dan were very active on these forums,

I believe this would be "before my time" so-to-speak.

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by Kanati

Undeniably. The forum works well. I just don't think it's as clear as it should be that sage doesn't monitor the forums all that well and that people posting what they believe to be bug reports to sage, are really just posting them for other end-users to see. Sage may never see them.

I'm not sure what's not clear. On Sage site it clearly says "...Discussion Forums to interact with other SageTV customers" and "If you still can't find the information you need, then please submit a support request to us." To me cleary differentiates between forums being a user community and support being support with different request for support channel.

[Opus4]

Not all the bugs posted to the forum are _only_ posted here. A lot of people will submit a bug report and mention it in the forum so that others are aware of it and perhaps to see if it really is a problem or to find out whether anyone can offer an idea for a work-around.

I often make a reminder about submitting a bug report, not becuase I happen to know that person didn't do so, but just in case they haven't done so & as a reminder for newer users. Posts on the forum _might_ get noticed by someone at SageTV, but there is no guarantee that will happen.

- Andy

[JasonJoel]

I submit bugs all the time on the support webpage that I don't post about here.


From my personal experience over the last few years the official bug report page givces better results than posting in the forums.

Ofg course a lot of users do BOTH, which is fine. But if you are only going to do ONE then you should do the official bug submission.

Jason

[reboot_this]

I for one (not to be rude) think users of this forum should read the "rules" of the forum. This would clear up lots of confusion about the reasons why this forum exists.

My thought is when a new user signs up, they should be forced to really "read" the forum rules. Kinda like some software installs which force you scroll to the bottom of their agreement before installing said software. If they were somehow forced to read the rules BEFORE they are able to post on the forum then it might cut down on the "I hope Frey/SageTV is listening" posts, but I doubt it.

But then again, lots of people (myself included) tend to forget that this is not a support forum, and as always, are encouraged to send a bug submission/support inquiry to Frey directly, which always helps.

A vicious cycle indeed, one that Frey Technologies, moderators/users of this forum, and everybody looking for answers regarding anything about the SageTV venture, will possibly never get out of.

another thought... maybe a "splash" page when logging onto the forum could state that this is NOT a support forum and to forward any support/bug issues to Frey directly (maybe only use this when people click on the forum link located on sagetv.com)... sure it'd piss some users off but it might be an answer to the vicious cycle