Aspect Ratio Issues for HDTV

[JUC]

Hi all, well I have been having trouble setting up the aspect ratios to fill my HDTV screen for 4:3 content.
A little background. Just got a 42" HDTV-running 1280 x 720 from my HTPC. Well, i believe that the 42" does not have square pixels and that may be part of my problem. When my TV is set to normal mode, the desktop fills the screen perfectly. When I am watching 4:3 content in sage, it of course has the bars on the sides. No problem for me but my wife likes to fill the screen. Our tv has a wide zoom option that stretches the outsides to fill the screen while keeping the middle portion the same (doesn't really bother me too much). The problem is, is that if I select the wide zoom on the tv, everytime I go to any sage menus--the UI is way too large. I would then have to change the TV's zoom function everytime I want to see the UI portion of Sage-not ideal.

So, I would like to set the TV to normal mode and just adjust the aspect ratios in sage so I can select the fill mode and it will fill the screen (i know sage can't do the wide zoom stretch thing which is okay). Here's the problem. I can't seem to adjust the aspect ratios vertical and horizontal stretch to display the entire image on the TV. If i go 100 horiz/133 vert the immage fills the screen too much. If I lower it a bit--its too small and the tops will also show black bars. What are people doing to fill the screen for 4:3 content on a 42" HDTV. any settings/thoughts would be appreciated.

Note: for the time being I have solved the problem by selecting wide zoom on the TV and adjusting the Sage UI to correct it and it looks fine. But if I want to watch shows in 4:3 (when the wife's not around) and I change the TV back to normal, all the sage UI get shrunk due to my adjustments (and I need to use 2 remotes). This is why I would just like to be able to use the fill setting in sage and do all my adjustments there.
Thanks
JUC

[stanger89]

You'll have to use the 16x9 or Fill AR modes to get it to fill the screen Source and 4x3 will only fill a 4x3 portion of your screen.

[JUC]

This i know, but the fill mode does not fill the screen at all. the 16 x 9 mode leaves black bars on all sides of the tv. So, i think i need to make some adjustments to the vert and horiz aspect settings. I just can't seem to get it to fill the screen.
JUC

edit: for those that have 42" HDTV's--does the fill AR mode actually fill your entire screen?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by JUC

This i know, but the fill mode does not fill the screen at all.

Fill mode should always fill the entire SageTV window, regardless of it's AR.

What exactly are your AR settings in Sage?

[JUC]

That's what I thought too!. For fill they are set to 100% both horizontal and vertical. I thought it was weird too that it wasn't filling the screen. 4:3 works fine showing the black bars on left and right sides. 16:9 shows bars on top and bottom AND left and right (which I don't think is right either). Any thoughts. All AR settings are 100% BTW. Any help on this would be great. BTW--this is a 42" so I don't think the pixels are square.
Thanks
JUC


edit: one quick thought---would the size of my UI settings have anything to do with this? as a result of me selecting wide zoom on my tv--i had to drasically reduce the UI positioning in the setup to fit the screen. BUT--when I have been trying out the AR settings I alway change the TV settings back to normal (this causes the UI portion of sage to be smaller on the screen but I didn't think that would have any impact on the actual video playing). Just a thought but i think those two settings --UI and AR should be independent of each other right?

[Narflex]

SageTV doesn't currently detect if there's black bars encoded into the video. If you're using an AR mode that gives you a 'window boxed' image (bars on all sides), then there's definitely bars encoded into the video.

If you use 4:3, 16:9 or Source then it will force the AR of the video region to match the selection (the video region will include any bars encoded into it). Fill just stretches to whatever you specify and doesn't care about AR at all.

[JUC]

thanks, and I should be able to specify the Fill mode by setting the horizontal and vertical %'s in the setup screen right? That is my problem. At 100% for both, the image isn't filled. If i up it to 100% and 133% it still doesn't fill. what are people doing to fill 4:3 content on a 42" HDTV? I guess that is the real question.
thanks again,
JUC

[stanger89]

First it doesn't matter what AR the pixels on the screen are, what matter is if the desktop resolution AR matches that of your display. It sounds like that's the case, ie 1280x720 on a 16x9 display.

What is your video source?

[nielm]

Originally Posted by Narflex

SageTV doesn't currently detect

currently? Is there something in the pipeline for this?

My settings are, for 1280x720 on a 16x9 display (square pixels):

• Fill @ 100%x100% -- for 16x9 anamorphic (no black bars) avis and anamorphic mpegs recorded by sage
• source @ 100%x100% -- for 4x3 + 16x9 anamorphic dvds, and for square pixel avi's -- displays with left-right bars
• 16x9 @100%x133% -- for 16x9 letterboxed -- crops top/bottom black bars
• 4x3 @100%x100% -- 4x3 non-square pixel avi's -- displays with left-right bars

and you should tell your tvt that this is a 16x9 anamorphic source so it displays the full windows desktop at 16x9 (not zoomed)

[JUC]

video source--DTV non HD. Should my horizontal and vertial % be set to 100 for each? Still no fill.
Thanks for the help....and keep it coming.
JUC

edit: also i'm using a DVI to HDMI connector although that shouldn't matter
edit2: I plan on popping in a 4:3 DVD when i get home just to rule out the source being an issue too

[stanger89]

Assuming a 4:3 video source, a 16x9 resolution, a 16x9 display, and H/V zoom = 100%:

• Fill - will stretch the video to fill the entire screen
• Source - will stretch the video to fill a 4:3 area in the center (pillarboxed)
• 4x3 - will stretch the video to fill a 4:3 area in the center (pillarboxed)
• 16x9 - will stretch the video to fill the entire screen in this case.

In the general case:

• Fill - will stretch the video to fill the entire screen
• Source - will stretch the video to fill a 4:3 or 16:9 (depending on source) area in the center of the screen. The size/shape of the area is calculated based on pixels.
• 4x3 - will stretch the video to fill a 4:3 area in the center of the screen. The size/shape of the area is calculated based on pixels.
• 16x9 - will stretch the video to fill a 16:9 area in the center of the screen. The size/shape of the area is calculated based on pixels.

[JUC]

okay then, that is what my settings are. Fill just does not 'fill' the screen. I still get black bars on the sides. When i am not running sage--my desktop shows up perfectly on the TV so I think those settings are fine. What gives? Any other adjustments I can make?
thanks
JUC

edit---every other setting seems to be working except for Fill. I just can't get it to fill the screen. It makes it a little bigger on the left/right sides but nowhere near filling the screen.

[Polypro]

I've got a 27" LCD 1280x720 HDTV. At 100/100 Fill settings, my image was about 1" off left and right, and about 1/2" off top and bottom. I centered the image exactly using a verticle offset of -5, then stretched horizontally using 105% and vertically using 103%. I'm assuming that on a larger set, the difference would have been bigger. have you tweaked the Fill mode by upping the percentages past 100?

P

[JUC]

P--i have tried but have not been able to get good results. If i up the horizontal, it will fill the sides but then the top gets cut off too. I have tried upping the horizontal and reducing the vertical but that doesn't seem to work much either. Its good to hear though (as much as I hate to say it) that the Fill mode didn't actually 'fill' your screen either. At least I am not going crazy.

So, what is everyone else doing--any 42" HDTV people out there?
JUC

[stanger89]

Well Fill will fill the screen, what I suspect Polypro was seeing was the normal lack of picture in the recordigns. Most recordings have a small amount of black in them that's usually covered by the TV's overscan. That's why Sage defaults to 105% for everything.

JUC, are we talking small bars or something like 1/3 of your screen bars?

Also, does the Sage UI fill the screen completely?

Do you have video mirroring/theater mode enabled?

Does your TV have some sort of auto-zoom?

FWIW, I just tried a couple things with a 4:3 DVD rip, and fill work just like it should, it's not affected by the UI OVerscan settings. Horizontal zoom stretches the picture horzontally without affecting the vertical size.

[JUC]

GOT IT!! Kind of. Its totally related to my decoder. I have been using the nvidia one and when i switched to the sage decoder all worked and filled great. So, it must be somewhere in my nvidia settings. I will check that out tomorrow but if anyone has any suggestions that would be great. Unfortunately for now, I had to switch back to the nvidia decoder because the sage one just wouldn't cut it.
Thanks again,
JUC