VERY unhappy with the MVP trial period handling

[mcaron1234]

Matt’s MVP plug-in is the reason why I choose Sage over BTV when I was shopping around for PVR software. BTV said they supported the MVP but their trial didn’t allow me test run it. This was unacceptable. Then I see Sage and they offer a fully functional trial period. Perfect. Just what I was looking for. I thought here is a company that gets it.

So flash forward a month or two. Last night I download and installed the new Sage version 4.1 with built in MVP support. Now, I have a client license already that I used with Matt’s plug-in but I’m not going to just trade licenses until I try it, check WAF, etc. I fire everything up; go into the bedroom plug-in the MVP and I see a Trial period warning over the menu screen. Ok, this is annoying but whatever, if they want to tell me how many days I have left in my trial when I first fire it up I can put up with this. Everything seems to work minus the super secret built in customizations, so I leave it alone for a couple of hours. My wife and I come back to bed and we decide to watch a little CSI. We get all warm and comfortable. Turn on the MVP, start the show and waaa? What’s on the screen? Freakin’ trial superimposed over the video! Not just for a minute either. It keeps moving and it is on the screen in multiple places. Like some kinda sick screen saver. Well, I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that WAF plummeted. Not to mention my immediate reaction: Think Ben Stiller in Mystery Men.

All this resulted in me running to the computer room, freezing my **** off because I am not gonna get dressed for this, and rolling back to Matt’s plug-in.

You guys at Sage if you are listening, this type of crap turns people off to your product. I don’t know what the goal of this is, but I hope it’s not copy protection. Cause you should know that it really just hinders people who actually buy your product. If someone is going to steal it, this is not going to prevent them. Crackers will be crackers. Now I really do like Sage, and am not going anywhere. But I already have a good MVP solution in Matt’s Plug-in. New users may not take the time to dig up a user made plug-in if you advertise as supporting MVP out of the box. I hope you don’t inconvenience them into using GBPVR or Myth.

You really should change this. I don’t like what it implies about your company.

Matt
(Not of Matt’s plug-in fame)

[jptaz]

Amen.... I have the same complaint!

I also feel that if they are going to charge they should at least have all the features that Matts plugin did.

John

[Jason]

Originally Posted by jptaz

Amen.... I have the same complaint!

I also feel that if they are going to charge they should at least have all the features that Matts plugin did.

John

Which features are missing?

-Jason

[jptaz]

per my previous post it requires a DHCP server and the Power button no longer turns off the unit so the RED LED is always on.

The bigger issue is the DHCP requiremnet, while I do have one I chose not to use it and this base functionality that both the Hauppauge Software has and Matt has added to his plugin. I am all for Frey adding features...but they have to achieve the same basic functionality as the previous available versions.

[stanger89]

I fail to see what the big deal is. Sure it's annoying, but it's not like it'll be there once you register. And I fail to understand how it impedes one's ability to evaluate the product. There's no time limit, no functionality restrictions, just some text overlay. If you want annoying try trialing Sonic Cineplayer, it cuts off audio after 5 minutes, forcing you to restart.

And what's the problem with running a DHCP server? It's not like it forces you to use DHCP on all your other PCs.

<rant>
I really can't believe this, yet at the same time, I can. For months (since 3.0 was announced) people have been screaming to get the official client. Now it's here and Sage is getting bashed for it, because, shocker, it works like an MVP running the Sage UI.
</rant>

[mcaron1234]

I really can't believe this, yet at the same time, I can. For months (since 3.0 was announced) people have been screaming to get the official client. Now it's here and Sage is getting bashed for it, because, shocker, it works like an MVP running the Sage UI.

Its not the client I have a problem with. Its the way they are treating me, the paying customer.

I fail to see what the big deal is. Sure it's annoying, but it's not like it'll be there once you register. And I fail to understand how it impedes one's ability to evaluate the product. There's no time limit, no functionality restrictions, just some text overlay. If you want annoying try trialing Sonic Cineplayer, it cuts off audio after 5 minutes, forcing you to restart.

The thing is here, I don't want to try annoying. Why should I?

Matt

[Kanati]

ouch... intrusive trial type stuff usually just results in me uninstalling and never looking at a product again. That sounds horrid. Glad I don't have an MVP...

[jptaz]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I fail to see what the big deal is. Sure it's annoying, but it's not like it'll be there once you register. And I fail to understand how it impedes one's ability to evaluate the product. There's no time limit, no functionality restrictions, just some text overlay. If you want annoying try trialing Sonic Cineplayer, it cuts off audio after 5 minutes, forcing you to restart.

And what's the problem with running a DHCP server? It's not like it forces you to use DHCP on all your other PCs.

1. There is a time limit...we have 7 days to try the product. Every other tiral version Frey has released has been fully usable and did not deviate from the actual product in any way (Except for Studio). That is part of the reason I bought SageTV, I could really try it before I bought it.

Ok great it is not sonic with audio gone after 5 minutes, but then there is a reason I never even considered sonic decoders.

I have spent more than $200 on software products from Frey...I have no issue paying for the products....I do have issue with them drastically changing there policy especially since I, along with many users on these forums, have a history of trying the product and before the trial expired purchasing the product.

2. DHCP being turned on is an annoyance...it would not prevent me from purchasing the product. But they are adding a requiremnt that is more restrictive that a freely available solution today and the basic product from Hauppauge. Frey felt that they could do better and replace Matts plugin or they would not have included in the product to try and make money selling Media MVPs. While the performance is modestly better, they are not adding any features that I do not already have yet. If they had a fully released version that supported DIVX and other format playback now I would say it was a wise marketing choice, but seeing as they are offering no more, but in fact less than the free solution, then I feel they failed to convert a base of existing users.

John

[salsbst]

I understand and can empathize to an extent with the frustration, but the 'foul' doesn't rise to the level of the complaint IMO. Of course, my O is worth very little, so take it as such.

That said, I do recognize a deeper issue here. Like it or not, we (perhaps Americans more than others) depend on our entertainment systems, especially TV. And we, the keepers of the entertainment systems, have our feet held to the fire when anything goes out of whack.

I am a very slow upgrader when it comes to the entertainment system. I wait and wait until I hear success stories before I jump. And this even though, in the case of SageTV, I have an extra license for my development workstation. I'm cautious. I do enough dumb stuff to upset my fiancee. I don't need to wreck her television experience.

Those who don't purchase extra licenses (or who don't have extra PCs or extra MVPs in this case) don't have an environment in which to sandbox-test new versions of HTPC apps.

Because of this issue, my opinion is that the trial should run full featured without nagware.

[dertb]

Originally Posted by jptaz

I have spent more than $200 on software products from Frey...I have no issue paying for the products....I do have issue with them drastically changing there policy especially since I, along with many users on these forums, have a history of trying the product and before the trial expired purchasing the product.
Frey felt that they could do better and replace Matts plugin or they would not have included in the product to try and make money selling Media MVPs. While the performance is modestly better, they are not adding any features that I do not already have yet. If they had a fully released version that supported DIVX and other format playback now I would say it was a wise marketing choice, but seeing as they are offering no more, but in fact less than the free solution, then I feel they failed to convert a base of existing users.

John

My first order with Frey was over 700 dollars. The only thing I did not buy was the MVP's They did not sell them at that time. I have more than enough liscences for my setup. Even with the new MVP liscensing issue I still dont have a problem. I do however have a problem that they are offering me nothing in return for me to upgrade. They however reap the benifiets of cash. If the new MVP support included AVI and DVIX i would be the first in line. Since howver they have not included it and xmas is here. maybe I should start looking at something that will support my needs.

[sticky]

They have THE best upgrade policy of any of the HTPC applications! Bar none!

[TakeFlight]

<second thread rant>
How boring life would be if people stopped bitching about every little thing. Of course, life might be easier for the people the bitching is aimed at.

How long has the official media extender been out? Did you people expect perfection? What planet are you living on or what drug are you smoking? Since when is a software application the perfect fit for everyone on the planet? And since when was the first release of a software application perfection?
</second thread rant>

Guess what? I've got something positive to say regarding SageTV...

I faxed in the authorization form today and was pleasantly surprised only a couple of hours later (if that) I had an email with my new MVP Extender license.

Thanks SageTV!

[blade]

For all of you moaning and complaining........if you'd bother to read some of the other threads about the MVP on the forums you'd see that divx support is in the works right now.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...t=14717&page=3

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...617#post129617

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mcaron1234

Everything seems to work minus the super secret built in customizations

BTW: that part works too, once you enable the hidden features.

- Andy

[stanger89]

Let me clarify that I do understand the annoyance of the different trial reminder. I have my own theory about why they are doing it, and if I'm right it's quite logical.

What I don't understand is the "OMFG it overlay's 'TRIAL', I'm going to drop Sage and move on..." comments.

Frey felt that they could do better and replace Matts plugin or they would not have included in the product to try and make money selling Media MVPs.

SageTV () is filling an obvious demand. There are numerous posts/threads asking for an official extender, including many after Matt released his plugin.

[flavius]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Let me clarify that I do understand the annoyance of the different trial reminder. I have my own theory about why they are doing it, and if I'm right it's quite logical.
What I don't understand is the "OMFG it overlay's 'TRIAL', I'm going to drop Sage and move on..." comments...

I wouldn't consider that to be a true trial anymore, since it renders the client effective useless. If Sage decides to call this a test install, or something, that would be a different story.

That's what's angering people, and rigthfully so. It's an aberration from their previous policy, and therefore deceptive. Of course, they can do what they want, they sure will, but Sage should do away with this.

[stanger89]

I was going to let it go, but...

Originally Posted by flavius

I wouldn't consider that to be a true trial anymore, since it renders the client effective useless. If Sage decides to call this a test install, or something, that would be a different story.

How does it render the client "effective useless"?
What does it stop you from doing? - Nothing
What features are disabled? - None
How does it keep you from judging quality? - It doesn't, you can still tell if the picture is fluid, saturated, sharp, clear, etc.
How does it stop you from trying the product?

You guys make it sound like they completely disabled functionality, made it output fuzzy black-and-white picture, and only play audio out of the left speaker.

It's not so much the complaints, it's the over-the-top comments ("effective useless", "uninstalling and never looking at a product again", "therefore deceptive", etc). I'm running an MVP, don't have it registered yet, and yet somehow, I can comprehend that "Oh, it will be just like this, but without the 'TRIAL' overlayed", and can (and have) decided that it works well enough for me to purchase another license.

[Wakecrash]

Like any software product, sometimes first impressions are good, but can go sour with use. Reasons for this with an MVP client could be stability, disconnect problems, etc. So have the product effected in this way does not incourage constant use for a solid week. So you are left having to watch some anoying overlay for a week or take a chance and say, gee worked great for my 1 hour demo, hope it doesn't crash every other day.

[krutaw]

Originally Posted by mcaron1234

I hope you don’t inconvenience them into using GBPVR or Myth.

You really should change this. I don’t like what it implies about your company.

Okay, so I've read the rants, and I gotta say that at first I was really super ticked about this one. I too am a fan of the MVP, and expected quite a bbit out of the Sage implementation of the "Media Extender".

I think some of the guys here have a really really good point about the comments about "WTF, I'm not gonna use SAGETV anymore". That's just it, if you're posting here, you're more than likely going to continue using it. You're just griping because you feel passionately about something. That's not a bad thing, but there's more to life.

Having said that, I am a tad upset about the lack of new features for the MVP implementation. I mean, okay, yeah, it's an MVP. But it *DOES* support DIVX, we just don't have a client that will do the decoding in software with SAGE. I'm also not happy about the licensing aspect of it, but I'd honestly be willing to overlook that if it actually supported the featureset that the hardware is capable of.

Okay, my rant is over, say what you will, that's the way I see it....

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by krutaw

Having said that, I am a tad upset about the lack of new features for the MVP implementation. I mean, okay, yeah, it's an MVP. ...if it actually supported the featureset that the hardware is capable of.

And what exactly is that? The hardware is capable of MPEG decoding, and only MPEG decoding? What's missing? Asside from the forthcoming transcoding? What more do you expect?

Of course lots of us want HDTV playback, digital audio, DVD playback, but the MVP is meant to appeal to the Tivo crowd, who isn't willing to put a full PC in the living room, and doesn't care about HDTV/Digital audio/DVD yet

Sorry, just frustrating to see so much bashing, even when given what's been asked for.