What version of Java should I be using - UI crashing daily

[DFranch]

Last week I did some updates on my sage box. I installed the latest windows security updates, and I updated java to the latest version (1.5.6 I think). Since then, the UI has been crashing at least once a day. before then it used to crash about once every couple of weeks. I'm wondering if it is the version of JAVA I'm using, it used to stay up for months without crashing. Does anybody know what version of JAVA comes with Sage? I'm open to any other suggestions as well.

Thanks!

[Opus4]

Here are some comments on java versions.

I would look into what has changed -- those Windows updates were, any graphics drivers updates, etc. Ther may be a java error log/dump in the SageTV directory or you can use the debug_logging=TRUE property to get a SageTV log.

- Andy

[DFranch]

Now that you mention it, I think I might have updated to the latest catalyst drivers at the same time as I updated the java version. The system was already crashing about once every 2 weeks, and I was updating drivers hoping to get rid of the problem. I'll try the debug option.

[Goodspike]

Well, going back to the Java version that ships with Sage will be the easiest change, so I'd try that first.

Then, if you're the type of person that updates video drivers regularly, I'd go back to one you know worked, and stick with it. With video drivers, if it ain't broke, don't fix it is the best policy, IMHO.

[Jere_Jones]

My $(1/50):

I was experiencing the EXACT same symptoms as you on a new system I built. I had seen that comments saying that downgrading the JVM made a difference for a week or a couple days, but eventually the problem came back. This led me to believe that the JVM wasn't the problem.

Then I saw Andy's comment above and figured, what the heck. I'll try it.

So I zipped up my SageTV directory and then uninstalled SageTV and every Java reference I could find in the "Add/Remove Programs" applet. Reinstalling SageTV also installed Java 1.4.2_06. Then I replaced the SageTV directory with what I had zipped up earlier. (No lost settings!)

I also went to the control panel and opened the Java control and disabled the automatic update. I suspect that those who downgraded only to have the problem return experienced a "silent upgrade". That is easily checked by looking at the registry key mentioned by Narflex in the link posted by Opus. (Or, for the lazy: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\CurrentVersion)

The end result: not a single crash since. If I do exerience one, I'll post back here, but so far so good!

Jere

[jefff]

I installed Sage 4.1 and the Java version that comes with it (1.4.x) on a fresh, fully updated Windows installation and had several weird problems - mainly stuttering video playback and failure of the computer to ever go to sleep. When I updated Java to 1.5.6 those problems went away. Go figure...

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Jere_Jones

My $(1/50):

I was experiencing the EXACT same symptoms as you on a new system I built. I had seen that comments saying that downgrading the JVM made a difference for a week or a couple days, but eventually the problem came back. This led me to believe that the JVM wasn't the problem.

Are you sure Java wasn't set to allow an update? I don't remember how automated those updates can be, but I do remember having to do something so that it wasn't notifying me of the updates.

[Jere_Jones]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Are you sure Java wasn't set to allow an update? I don't remember how automated those updates can be, but I do remember having to do something so that it wasn't notifying me of the updates.

I'm sure it was. I strongly suspect the update started the problems. Hence the note about disabling the updates.

Jere

[DFranch]

Couldn't I just uninstall Java 1.5.6, then install java 1.4_06 without messing with the sage install. Java is a seperate app right? There shouldn't be anyhing in the sage install which is different depending on what version of Java I am running.

[DFranch]

Is 1.4_06 definately the version that comes with Sage 4?

[Jere_Jones]

1.4.2_06 is the version of Java that came with SageTV 4.1.3.67.

Jere

[DFranch]

Originally Posted by Jere_Jones

1.4.2_06 is the version of Java that came with SageTV 4.1.3.67.

Jere

Cool, Thanks!

[DFranch]

Well, for better or worse, I uninstalled all versions of java, backed up the sage folder, rebooted, installed sagetv, copied the backup of the sage folder back to the sage folder. I'll post to let you know if this works.

[Keith]

DFranch -

In my case, downrevving the JRE to 1.5.4 is what was necessary.

Do make sure you disable the auto-update feature if you haven't.

I went so far as to completely wipe the hard drive, reinstall XP from scratch and all the patches and SP2. If I install JRE version 1.5.6, then Sage *will* crash within 24 hours. *Guaranteed*.

Since I downgraded to JRE version 1.5.4, it's back to being rock solid.

Get the old JRE here :

http://javashoplm.sun.com/ECom/docs/...actionId=noreg

Also see these related threads :

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14952

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15019


*Clearly* there is an incompatibility with Sage and JRE v 1.5.6 since it's trivially simple to reproduce this issue on a "clean" system with a new OS install and only the necessary support files need to run Sage (such as the JRE and the Streamzap driver in my case).

It's not the 4.1 version of Sage, as people have reported this issue with older versions as well.

[aperry]

Note that the above does not work in all cases. On the system I maintain that was having problems, downgrading did not help. Disabling 3D acceleration seems to have stabilized things a bit though...

So, I think the best option is to just try the different "solutions" people have suggested. Hopefully, the next version of Sage won't have these problems.

[DFranch]

So far so good. I got throught the nights viewing without any crashes. The jury is still out, but I am hopeful. I am now using the version which comes with sage 1.4_06. Fingers crossed. The WAF has definately taken a hit, and the guys I had over to watch football Saturday definately were not impressed.

[DFranch]

Ok, 3 days without a crash. I'm probably jinxing myself, but I think downgrading to java 1.4_06 fixed my problem. It used to stay up for months at a time, here is hoping I'm back to that level of stability.

[Darren Cook]

My system's been very unstable as of late...but this thread has helped a bit. For the benefit of others I'll share how I resolved my issues:

Downgraded to Java 1.5.4 which did help, but not completely: I was still experiencing Sage crashing during startup (not sure if it was the service or the app, or both).

Uninstalled the following Microsoft security updates:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=896424
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=904706

I'd also previously tried some other things, such as installing the latest DirectX driver (didn't seem to help) and upgrading from Sage 2.2.2 to 4.1.15.

Finally, it looks like it might be stable. I know the Microsoft updates had something to do with it, as Windows Auto Update kicked in before I remembered to disable it, and reinstalled them again at which point the system started crashing again (I'm talkin frozen screen after startup, just about the time that Sage tried to launch, multiple times in a row. The only fix was to start up in safe mode and use msconfig.exe to turn off the Sage service and startup items so I could boot into Windows normally and uninstall the MS Updates again).

The MS Security Updates in fact have seemed to be so suspiciously the problem, that I wonder if java 1.5.6 will work now that I've removed them? Sorry everyone...I'm too tired of rebooting this darn machine to try it and find out; I want to watch some TV for a while. ;-)

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by Darren Cook

My system's been very unstable as of late...but this thread has helped a bit. For the benefit of others I'll share how I resolved my issues:

Downgraded to Java 1.5.4 which did help, but not completely: I was still experiencing Sage crashing during startup (not sure if it was the service or the app, or both).

Uninstalled the following Microsoft security updates:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=896424
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=904706

I'd also previously tried some other things, such as installing the latest DirectX driver (didn't seem to help) and upgrading from Sage 2.2.2 to 4.1.15.

Finally, it looks like it might be stable. I know the Microsoft updates had something to do with it, as Windows Auto Update kicked in before I remembered to disable it, and reinstalled them again at which point the system started crashing again (I'm talkin frozen screen after startup, just about the time that Sage tried to launch, multiple times in a row. The only fix was to start up in safe mode and use msconfig.exe to turn off the Sage service and startup items so I could boot into Windows normally and uninstall the MS Updates again).

The MS Security Updates in fact have seemed to be so suspiciously the problem, that I wonder if java 1.5.6 will work now that I've removed them? Sorry everyone...I'm too tired of rebooting this darn machine to try it and find out; I want to watch some TV for a while. ;-)

Over this past weekend I had to completely rebuild my system because of issues like yours. I can tell you it is fully patched and running java installed by Sage. I am staying away from the 1.5 series for now since I am only using the box for Sage and basic web surfing on an RDP session. (I am using the simultaneous logon hack) The other thing I have done was to get rid of my Silicon Image 3114 raid array. All disks are now running JBOD and I am using an add-on 3ware 8006 card for 2 of them the other running on the Intel controller. No more issues with HD stutter, at least unrelated to signal reception, and the UI has not crashed yet.

B

[ben_95sl1]

I don't know what the culprit is for those with issues, but I've been running 1.5.06 on the server for weeks and it's fine, and the client has had no issues with 1.5.04 either. Maybe it has something to do with windows updates, or hardware...I'm just saying that some of us haven't had issues with the 1.5 java stuff. I've had numerous problems in the last month, but they are gone now and changing java versions has never made a difference for me.

I do believe that once one gets it stable, one should stop making updates for windows and java and drivers if at all possible. so if 1.4 works, I don't really see the need to upgrade, unless it offeres some big performance boost; which it doesn't.

Hopefully, I'm not jinxing myself as well.