Arggh! Fox Ftball blew the schedule for 24!

[sfisher]

Lost the last 13.8 minutes of the show!

What we need is a conflict alert or something to warn us that a Sports Show like Football is in the schedule on that channel and may shiift the times of all shows after it. Then we could apply a Pad to the shows. Or better yet, it would be cool if we could inject a timeshift into the program schedule for that channel. As in this case, If I had been warned, I could have found out when the game ended a little later in the evening while 24 was still recording, and insert a 14 Minute shift in Foxes program schedule for the night.

[aperry]

That's why I padded mine by an hour...

Seriously though, sorry you missed it.

[sfisher]

See my updated message above... I would have if I had know there was a Game

[TakeFlight]

There could be some kind of alert. But to me, in the end it's really up to us the users to keep an eye out for these things. I love SageTV and DVRs in general because 95% of the time you don't have to do anything but sit back and watch your show anytime you want. But, I feel you probably should keep an eye out for stuff like this especially during football season when watching shows on networks that broadcast football games.

[Juncti]

This is a pretty common event though. Seems like a feature to combat it would only make the product better. I didn't notice the problem until I realized the game I was watching was on fox. Had I not noticed that I would of missed out as well. I have a 5 minute pad on 24, so I still would have missed about 15 minutes of show.

Having noticed it, a feature to better handle a one time time shift would help. Instead I told it to record the two news broadcasts after 24. So now I need to go back and clear those flags otherwise IR will start to hit me with every news broadcast there is.

Maybe a "special event timeshift" menu item would work. Anytime a presidential address, sports game, or other oddity hurts the broadcast times, you could highlight the favorite in the recording schedule. Go to record options, and choose that option. Set the time shift, and it treats that favorite as running from 8:20 to 10:20 rather than thinking you've now watched the 10pm news.

[sfisher]

Sorry TakeFlight, but that's crap! What's the point of a computer if you can't get it to alert you to collisions that you may not be aware of?

I personally don't pay attention to Sports and didn't even know Fox had football. Frankly, I wasn't aware that football was still in season, except maybe for the Super Bowl which I think is sometime this month?

It's not just Sports, it would be good if there was a way to manage a list, like favorites, of possible run-overs like award shows, or presidential speeches , etc.

The warning is more important than the schedule shift, but how about adding a 1 time padding option to the Options menu for a show. So we could select the shows that are effect for that day and pad them one by one just for that day. It would have to be able to affect a show that might already be recording.

[TakeFlight]

Hence my reason for saying that there "could" be a alerting feature added. But the bottom line is until there is a DVR technology that could "detect" what's currently being broadcast (don't hold your breath) it will never be a perfect solution for when the schedule changes "on the fly" without time for the guide information to be updated. It will still require manual intervention. Even if there was a feature that would automatically pad time on shows the follow sporting events (and other events that can run long) then you have issues of recording conflicts if you have any shows set to record after the initial show and not enough tuners to handle it. For example, if there was a feature to do this and it automatically flagged 24 to added a certain amount of "user configured" padding that means 24 will record into the hour the follows it without your knowledge. If this happens, it could cause a recording conflict in the following hour that you are unaware of. So, to make a long story short, there is no good answer. Therefore, I choose not to worry about it and just pay attention to shows I know that can be prone to being affecting by other shows running long. This isn't the first time a Fox show has started late due to a football game, it sure won't be the last.

As for what I said being "crap" I'm only stating the obvious. Pay attention to the schedule (particulary for networks broadcasting sports ahead of primetime) and you can avoid situations like this most of the time. Assume all is perfect in DVR land and you risk the possibility that this can happen. You don't have to be a sports fan or watch a football game to be aware of these potential schedule issues. There could be software enhancements but there will never be a solution that is perfect. My quick solution for you would be (assuming it doesn't cause conflicts) is to add padding to the Favorites of all of your "critical must see shows" and then you don't have to worry about this. To be safe you would probably have to add at least 30 minutes if not an hour. Obviously this will use more drive space and make conflicts more likely.

[sfisher]

Originally Posted by TakeFlight

Hence my reason for saying that there "could" be a alerting feature added. But the bottom line is until there is a DVR technology that could "detect" what's currently being broadcast (don't hold your breath) it will never be a perfect solution for when the schedule changes "on the fly" without time for the guide information to be updated. It will still require manual intervention. Even if there was a feature that would automatically pad time on shows the follow sporting events (and other events that can run long) then you have issues of recording conflicts if you have any shows set to record after the initial show and not enough tuners to handle it. For example, if there was a feature to do this and it automatically flagged 24 to added a certain amount of "user configured" padding that means 24 will record into the hour the follows it without your knowledge. If this happens, it could cause a recording conflict in the following hour that you are unaware of. So, to make a long story short, there is no good answer. Therefore, I choose not to worry about it and just pay attention to shows I know that can be prone to being affecting by other shows running long. This isn't the first time a Fox show has started late due to a football game, it sure won't be the last.

As for what I said being "crap" I'm only stating the obvious. Pay attention to the schedule (particularly for networks broadcasting sports ahead of prime time) and you can avoid situations like this most of the time. Assume all is perfect in DVR land and you risk the possibility that this can happen. You don't have to be a sports fan or watch a football game to be aware of these potential schedule issues. There could be software enhancements but there will never be a solution that is perfect. My quick solution for you would be (assuming it doesn't cause conflicts) is to add padding to the Favorites of all of your "critical must see shows" and then you don't have to worry about this. To be safe you would probably have to add at least 30 minutes if not an hour. Obviously this will use more drive space and make conflicts more likely.

1) I don't want an "automatic" padding feature. Just to be able to set alerts for things like sports games, awards shows, speeches... that are in the program guide; and then a way to be able to manually shift the start stop times of the rest of the shows on that channel in a block. Or a 1 time padding option would do.

I know the epg isn't supplying data anywhere near real time or even in the same day... Maybe in the far future...

If I were warned a show fitting the right parameters was in the schedule ahead of time then, I'd be able to fix the problem at the time it occurs manually. Because it was brought to my attention.

2) Of course it wouldn't be perfect, and shows will still be blown away because of wrong or changed programming. Just a lot better than now!

Yep, way too many conflicts if I padded all the shows like that. Room isn't a problem.

An analogy of what I think you're saying is, "You should always be awake by 7 AM in the morning by yourself." and I'm saying "Sure, but the darn alarm clock I bought and set had better go off; because I'm a heavy sleeper"

The whole point is you shouldn't have to be dilegently scanning for things like this, (the ones in the program guide) when it's something that can easily be done by the program. The fact that it doesn't yet, is (to me) a flaw in the design, not a bug, just an oversight, but it should be corrected.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Juncti

Having noticed it, a feature to better handle a one time time shift would help. Instead I told it to record the two news broadcasts after 24. So now I need to go back and clear those flags otherwise IR will start to hit me with every news broadcast there is.

You can add padding to a show while recording is in progress. I don't remember exactly how, but it's been discussed on the forums before.

[jptaz]

The easiest way to add padding to a show that is already recording is to make it a manual recording and then adjust the stop time in the recording options. I don't think you can do this with favorites without changing the favorite itself.

[aperry]

For that matter, if you are watching as it records, then it doesn't matter if it runs over (as long as the tuner you are watching is not going to be used for something else after the current show is "over"). As soon as you get to what Sage thinks is the end of the recording, it will just continue into the "next" programming, or in this case, into the rest of the show you are watching.

Regarding the desires mentioned here, I agree that it would be nice to have a way to be warned about possible overrun type shows, or to have it happen automatically.

Until then though, I'll just keep watching for Sunday shows (I don't record anything on Saturdays), and pad all of them on the end by an hour.

[TakeFlight]

Originally Posted by sfisher

An analogy of what I think you're saying is, "You should always be awake by 7 AM in the morning by yourself." and I'm saying "Sure, but the darn alarm clock I bought and set had better go off; because I'm a heavy sleeper"

The whole point is you shouldn't have to be dilegently scanning for things like this, (the ones in the program guide) when it's something that can easily be done by the program. The fact that it doesn't yet, is (to me) a flaw in the design, not a bug, just an oversight, but it should be corrected.

I hear ya. And essentially I'm saying they "could" add a feature like this but right NOW the "alarm clock" feature doesn't exist. Therefore, your options are what I've stated above. As you stated, this feature wouldn't be perfect. It will still require manual intervention by you. Therefore, whether it's now or later (with a feature like this) you will still have to pay attention and manually do something in order to be sure you get the whole show. I have no problem with new features and requesting new features. But I like to try to make the software "as is" work for me the best way it can. That means learning the caveats and finding ways to avoid them.

[lovingHDTV]

This issue has been gone over before. Basically it came down to the EPG not being updated so there is no way Sage can tell if the show is affected. This happens pretty much every week for the show Cold Case.

I doubt that the entire EPG infrastructure can handle "real time" updates like what is being talked about. Of could I too would love this to work, but don't see any economic benefit for the companies involved to see it happen.

[ldavis]

I can kind of see both sides of the issue and I do add padding to all Sunday shows during football season but if a fooball game (or other sporting event,) immediately precedes a show or scheduled to end between 7 and 11 prior to(but not necessarily immediately before) a show that starts in primetime, then maybe this could be flagged as a conflict for resolution. I would think that could be coded fairly easily.

RANT ON!!!!

What really ticks me off is the way FOX and expecially CBS handle sporting telecasts in general and NFL football in particular. Look, games will run over sometimes and sometimes there will be OT to deal with, no doubt. Account for that in the scheduling so that the 95% of the time things are on schedule. (This means schedule for the first shows to start at 7:30 pm not 7:00 pm) What these two networks do is ensure that the programs run over. It is not a questions of if. It is a question of magnitude.

RANT OFF!!!

And thanks for your support

[sfisher]

Originally Posted by lovingHDTV

This issue has been gone over before. Basically it came down to the EPG not being updated so there is no way Sage can tell if the show is affected. This happens pretty much every week for the show Cold Case.

I doubt that the entire EPG infrastructure can handle "real time" updates like what is being talked about. Of could I too would love this to work, but don't see any economic benefit for the companies involved to see it happen.

You aren't reading! I'm not asking for "real-time" updates. I 'm asking for alerts when certain show types are in the EPG on the same channel that a favorite is scheduled to record later that evening.

I actually have come to the conclusion that there may only be a finite list of show type to code for I.E. Sports Games, Awards Shows, Scheduled Speeches...

Unscheduled events are unscheduled events nothing that can be done at this time, no problem I'll live with it. But cripes! If known offenders like the ones I listed above are in the EPG then an alert (at least) isn't much to ask for!

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by ldavis

RANT ON!!!!

What really ticks me off is the way FOX and expecially CBS handle sporting telecasts in general and NFL football in particular. Look, games will run over sometimes and sometimes there will be OT to deal with, no doubt. Account for that in the scheduling so that the 95% of the time things are on schedule. (This means schedule for the first shows to start at 7:30 pm not 7:00 pm) What these two networks do is ensure that the programs run over. It is not a questions of if. It is a question of magnitude.

RANT OFF!!!

And thanks for your support

One nice thing that ABC did for us West Coast guys was to put in a sports "filler" show on after Monday Night Football. MNF scheduled end time was 9PM, the sports recap show was from 9-10, and the prime time tv show was on at 10. IF MNF ran long, they just shortened the recap show. The prime time show always started at 10, unless MNF ran reaaaalll llloooooonngg

[sfisher]

Originally Posted by TakeFlight

I hear ya. And essentially I'm saying they "could" add a feature like this but right NOW the "alarm clock" feature doesn't exist. Therefore, your options are what I've stated above. As you stated, this feature wouldn't be perfect. It will still require manual intervention by you. Therefore, whether it's now or later (with a feature like this) you will still have to pay attention and manually do something in order to be sure you get the whole show. I have no problem with new features and requesting new features. But I like to try to make the software "as is" work for me the best way it can. That means learning the caveats and finding ways to avoid them.

Well I feel that is a condescending attitude, and all I can say is "You're just Perfect!"

In the meantime, I'm just trying to get a feature added that will make life easier for Us lesser beings.

[sfisher]

You either got my point or didn't; the rest of this thread is just going to be degenerative drivel and re-hashing. IMHO


-Steve

[TakeFlight]

Originally Posted by sfisher

Well I feel that is a condescending attitude, and all I can say is "You're just Perfect!"

In the meantime, I'm just trying to get a feature added that will make life easier for Us lesser beings.

I'm not perfect, I'm just aware of the software's limitations and therefore I take an active role to ensure that I'm not screwed by those limitations. I'm not sure how I'm being condescending. I feel like I'm just stating the obvious known solutions to this problem. I know you are asking for a new feature. That's all well and good. I'm just offering suggestions as to how to avoid this situation in the meantime (since said feature doesn't yet exist). If you don't want people to offer suggestions then why did you post your original message in the first place? Just to rant about a feature that you'd like to see in the software that doesn't exist? We are all aware that it doesn't exist. So, wouldn't the next best solution (until such feature exists) is to try to do whatever is necessary to minimize the chances of this happening in the future?

[Pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by blade

You can add padding to a show while recording is in progress. I don't remember exactly how, but it's been discussed on the forums before.

That's exactly what I did... added 15 minutes padding. The next day, I went in and verified the padding was still there for "24" and removed it. But then I got to looking at yesterday's recordings. The file stopped recording at 9PM yesterday, so Sage didnt include those 15 minutes of padding, so I lost those last 13 minutes of the show even though I made a point of adding the padding!!!

I didnt use Sage for almost a year (last Feb), now installed the new version, and it's already disappointed me. I never had this particular problem with the old version.