Raid and Online Capacity Expansion

[Jesse]

Hello,

I am once again considering a raid 5 array. I am looking at the adaptec and 3ware raid cards (hardware raid, of course). What I am hoping to do is start with three 400gb sata drives and add more as needed. When I add additional drives will I be able to use OCE to add them to the existing array, or will I need to create new arrays for the new drives? Obviously I would prefer to have a single array that I can enlarge as needed.

TIA

Jesse

[ke6guj]

I just went to Raid 5 on my system. I got the adaptec 2810sa.

Initially I installed 3 -300gb drives. Then when my 2 additional drives arrrived, I added them in to the array, 1 at a time. Pop in a new drive, add it to the existing array using OCE. Once it finished, I added in the second drive, and OCE'd it as well. You can only OCE one drive at a time. It took more than 12 hours for each OCE build to finish.

Once that is done, I had to enlarge the partition to use the larger array. I used How to use Diskpart.exe to extend a data volume in Windows Server 2003, in Windows XP, and in Windows 2000 to enlarge my partition to the full 1.1TB size of the array. I can still add more drives to the array, and then re-expand the partition to match.

[Jesse]

Hi ke6guj,

Thanks very much. That is what I was hoping to hear. I also appreciate the info re. Diskpart.exe, sounds like a pretty important piece of the puzzle.

I am leaning towards the 2810sa myself. Are you happy with it, or would you go a different direction now that you have used it?

Thanks again,

Jesse

[stanger89]

How big are you looking? Depeding on ultimate size, a ReadyNAS X6 might be a great solution, about the price of a good RAID card, but completely standalone (it's a NAS) with automatick RLM and OCE, up to 4 drives (that's the only down side).

I've currently got a 3ware 7506-8 with 8x 250GB drives in RAID-5 that's full, so I got the ReadyNAS to expand.

ke6guj,

Great timing with the Diskpart tip! I'm moving stuff off my array onto the ReadyNAS and need to rework the partitioning of my array. It's on 2003 Server. Yay!

[jptaz]

I like my 3Ware 9500s-12.

I am hoping it is pretty easy to expand as I have 4 open drive bays.

I figured out that the 12 port with 250 GB drives worked out to be cheaper than the 8 port card with bigger drives. If I add all the drives I can I will have a just over a 2TB Array. Right now 1.3TB is holding up since I am not ripping DVDs.

John

[dvd_maniac]

I've currently got a 3ware 7506-8 with 8x 250GB drives in RAID-5 that's full, so I got the ReadyNAS to expand.

Wow, that's around 1.6TB... What do you store on it? Do you keep recordings in native mpeg-2 or store whole DVDs?

I have 4*400GB on 3ware 9500s-8 and I like it.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by Jesse

Hi ke6guj,
I am leaning towards the 2810sa myself. Are you happy with it, or would you go a different direction now that you have used it?

Thanks again,

Jesse

Knock on wood, happy so far, no issues and my OCE went fine. It was basically a toss up between the 2810SA, the 9500s-8, and an acrea? card.

One thing I didn't care for on the 9500 was the 4-1 cable that plugged the drives into the card. There are only 2 ports (look like serial ports) on the card. Whereas the 2810sa uses standard sata cables and has 8 sata ports on the card. 9500 users, any issues with that cabling?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

Wow, that's around 1.6TB... What do you store on it? Do you keep recordings in native mpeg-2 or store whole DVDs?

I've got 270 some DVDs on it

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

One thing I didn't care for on the 9500 was the 4-1 cable that plugged the drives into the card. There are only 2 ports (look like serial ports) on the card. Whereas the 2810sa uses standard sata cables and has 8 sata ports on the card. 9500 users, any issues with that cabling?

That's only on the Mulitlane version, there's a "normal" version with normal SATA ports as well.

[Blue]

I also have the 2810SA. It's been okay so far. I've used OCE twice: the first time it was successful, the second time it failed. When OCE fails you lose all data and have to rebuild the array. Otherwise, an expansion takes about 20 hours on my system (using 300 GB drives).

Adaptec (and probably other manufacturers) recommend backing up all data before using OCE, for obvious reasons.

It's also important to use the same drives in an array. If in the future you decide to go with another manufacturer of 400 GB drives, and their drives are only a few bytes smaller than your existing drives, OCE won't work. They need to be the exact same size or larger.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by stanger89

That's only on the Mulitlane version, there's a "normal" version with normal SATA ports as well.

Oh, didn't realize that. Thanks for the info.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by Blue

Adaptec (and probably other manufacturers) recommend backing up all data before using OCE, for obvious reasons.

Would be nice to, but I don't have an extra TB of storage just laying around Is there a place we can rent a TB of storage for a week or so for cheap?

[dvd_maniac]

My 9500 has 8 ports on it. I returned the first one I bought that was multi-lane.

@ stanger89

I'm surprised you do not encode them into a smaller/more efficient format and get most of that space back...

[stanger89]

1) Not worth the time (HDD space is cheap)
2) I will not accept any loss on my 100" screen

[dvd_maniac]

100"s....... Compensating for something? Just kidding . Actually just jealous

But I see your point. I have been trying to talk to wife into a projecter in the family room. But she likes the light on while watching TV, go figure.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

100"s....... Compensating for something? Just kidding .

I'm not even done, when I (finally) move, I'm aiming for probably a 120x51 acoustically transparent screen (probably electrically retractable, DIY of course, I'm not rich )

But she likes the light on while watching TV, go figure.

It's doable, depending on how much light and how well isolated/focussed it is.

[Jesse]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the insight.

I figured out that the 12 port with 250 GB drives worked out to be cheaper than the 8 port card with bigger drives. If I add all the drives I can I will have a just over a 2TB Array. Right now 1.3TB is holding up since I am not ripping DVDs.

Good point. I was thinking of a 12 or 16 port card and 250g or 300g drives. They both come it at @ $0.41 per gig. Either way it would be cheaper than the 8 port card and 400g drives. In any case, it's alot of drives, alot of heat, and alot of money.

It's also important to use the same drives in an array. If in the future you decide to go with another manufacturer of 400 GB drives, and their drives are only a few bytes smaller than your existing drives, OCE won't work. They need to be the exact same size or larger.

Now that is good to know. I guess I had best plan on one specific drive and make sure I jump on any good deals I come across......

Thanks again,
Jesse

[stanger89]

One thing to seriously consider, beyond $/GB is practicality. When I was building my original array, I came to the same conclusion as many here, that many smaller drives can have a lower $/GB than fewer bigger drives. However I came to find out that logistics of powering and placing many drives offets the cost benefit.

8 drives is not terribly hard to deal with, but I did have to upgrade my PSU, actually I've got 10 drives in that PC. When looking into expansion options it became clear just how impractical another 8-12 drives would be. That's a large part of the reason I went with the ReadyNAS. I was already looking at requiring either a full second PC, external drive enclosure, or at the very least probably a dual power supply setup.

I finally came to the conclusion that opting for less total drives, but using the largest ones possible, especially when combined with OCE was the way to go. Now granted 500GB drives are not the $/GB of 200s or 250s, but when you consider that you can buy them over time, as prices fall, it probably evens out to a great degree.

Just some random thoughts.

[Jesse]

Hello Raid Experts,

I have another question: Is it possible to partition a Raid5 array? I would like to keep my OS and apps on a seperate partition from my data/media. I would like to have the benefits the raid array offers but still be able to do a clean install of windows without upsetting my media/data.

I suppose I could use intel softraid to set up a raid 1 array for the os and apps, but I would prefer to avoid that if possible.

stanger89: point taken!

Thanks again,
Jesse

[src666]

Yes, once you create the array, it just appears to be another drive to the OS (assuming you are using a hardware RAID solution, and not software RAID). You can partition it however you like.

However, you DO NOT want to put the operating system onto a RAID5 drive. NEVER EVER EVER! OK, maybe not ever, but only under incredibly limited circumstances is it a good idea. This isn't one of those circumstances.

Put the OS on a seperate drive, or a RAID 1 pair, but not RAID 5.

I also recommend staying away from software RAID for high-performance (read: Video) applications. It's just too slow. However, if you do use software RAID, keep in mind that the operating system _is_ the software that does the RAID. You can't load the operating system onto a RAID set that the operating system creates/manages, and shouldn't do it even if you could - how would you recover from a problem?