Blu-ray, HD-DVD, DVD, Don't care?

[stanger89]

Top of the forum seems like as good a place as any

There's a whole section of AVS dedicated to HD-DVD and Blu-ray, and lot's of crazies there waiting with baited breath for either/both, but it seems we have a bit more diverse crowd here than AVS.

Do you have a preference?
Do you have any predictions?
Will Blu-ray's studio support win the day?
Will HD-DVD's lower cost of entry seal the deal?
Will increased security sink them both and leave DVD the last man standing?
Do people even care about HD on a disc or is DVD close enough?

[KJake]

I don't know much about it all as far as the specifics and benifits of one over the others, but most people I know (who are techie) are waiting for Blu-ray.

[stanger89]

I'm at the point where DVD is/was great, it was easy to use, compatible, very good quality, etc.

HD on the other hand, has been a HUGE dissapointment on so many levels it's not even funny. It was suppsed to be the second coming of TV, supposed to change the way we watch it, see it, experience it.

Well it did that.

• HDTV has been botched, with the switchover date getting moved back and back...
• HDTV is still far less reliable (broadcast wise), and far more finicky playback wise than SD.
• HD is hard to get, requires boxes, hard to record, can only record this or that, and only on box X or Y if you've got feature Z.
• HD-DVD/Blu-ray are going to make us replace about every piece of equipment we own, and every piece of software (playback wise)
• HD is largely serving to do an end run around fair use and circumventing copyright law in favor of contract law.

And to top it all of, with benchmark DVDs like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings EE, The Matrix Ultimate, Indiana Jones, HD just isn't that much better.

If that doesn't get a response, nothing will.

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'm at the point where DVD is/was great, it was easy to use, compatible, very good quality, etc.

HD on the other hand, has been a HUGE dissapointment on so many levels it's not even funny. It was suppsed to be the second coming of TV, supposed to change the way we watch it, see it, experience it.

Well it did that.

• HDTV has been botched, with the switchover date getting moved back and back...
• HDTV is still far less reliable (broadcast wise), and far more finicky playback wise than SD.
• HD is hard to get, requires boxes, hard to record, can only record this or that, and only on box X or Y if you've got feature Z.
• HD-DVD/Blu-ray are going to make us replace about every piece of equipment we own, and every piece of software (playback wise)
• HD is largely serving to do an end run around fair use and circumventing copyright law in favor of contract law.

And to top it all of, with benchmark DVDs like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings EE, The Matrix Ultimate, Indiana Jones, HD just isn't that much better.

If that doesn't get a response, nothing will.

Well put.

I'm hoping that HD-DVD wins due to it's support for managed copies but if Blu-ray adopts the managed copy features I'll go w/ that.


Without managed copies (or an "unmanaged copy" hack ) I'll stick w/ DVD's, they look nearly as good as HD when played from a PC on my Sammy DLP.

[footmasta]

In all honesty, I'm going to stick with DVD till they don't sell them anymore. We all know that whatever format becomes the standard those discs are going to cost way over $20.00. Then I have to buy a new dvd player? How much is that going to cost? How long is it going to take till all the old movies on DVD are converted to the new format?
I think people with these 1080p tv's are going to be the ones that really see a difference.
I read on the AVS forums about 1080p dvd players coming out soon. How would that compare to a HD-DVD player?

[domc]

Not going to touch the new disks till there is a hack for the DRM.

[ldavis]

Well, I think the whole fixation on 1080p is a little dubious. First let me say that one day soon we will all have 1080p, or higher, and I want whichever format wins to support 1080p. But here is the rub. I have not met anyone who cannot tell the difference between HD generated from film and HD shot directly as video. Even casual viewers. It is usually very obvious with HD video as the clear winner. I know that in theory film has more resolution but in practice it looks considerablly less sharp. All this leads to a statement I read about several years ago from an unnamed FOX executive that said in essence that there was no reason for an HD pre-recorded format until Hollywood fundamentally changes the way they make movies. Well that has not happened, and won't for a while. For me the squeal point won't just be a clear winner in format war. It will take relatively inexpensive hardware and some way to rent the software. HD movies just aren't better enough to justify the cost and trouble at this point.

[mayamaniac]

You left out the "Wait for a player to support both formats" option. I guess I can vote as "Who cares", meaning "get both, doesn't matter who wins", much like the plus and minus of DVD R/Ws.

Getting used to bad picture quality (SD) is a poor excuse to not adopt HD. Watch nothing but HD for a month and see if an SD shows doesn't look like crap. Granted DVD movies do upscale better, but most of the time, I'm not watching DVD movies on TV, I'm watching broadcasted shows, and I would welcome HD asap.

But I have the same gripe as stranger's first post, that its taking too long to "switch" to HD. That is a major dissapointment because we already have the technology to do it, its just a matter of waiting till it is done. And it will take possible 5 more years till we see some real progress, base on the rate we are going. This is equivalent to car manufacturers to switch to all hydrid/fuel cell vehicles, or Microsoft scraping everything x86 and starting scratch with a brand new OS. It can be done, but aint happening for at least another 5 years.

Having said that, we SageTV-ers aint waiting, we'll try everything first before it becomes mainstream as long as our pockets are deep enough to afford it.

[stanger89]

ldavis,

FYI, both formats will be using 1080p24 as the storage format for movies. I agree completely with your observations about HD film and video. HD video is much more "HD" than HD film.

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

You left out the "Wait for a player to support both formats" option. I guess I can vote as "Who cares", meaning "get both, doesn't matter who wins", much like the plus and minus of DVD R/Ws.

Technically "whoever's left standing" could be interpreted as both

Getting used to bad picture quality (SD) is a poor excuse to not adopt HD.

Nobody said anything about getting used to bad PQ.

Watch nothing but HD for a month and see if an SD shows doesn't look like crap.

I'd disagree that SD shows look like crap, but I will definitely agree that when it comes to SD TV vs HD TV, HD TV is the clear winner quality wise. But that doesn't change the fact that HDTV is flaky to say the least.

Granted DVD movies do upscale better, but most of the time, I'm not watching DVD movies on TV, I'm watching broadcasted shows, and I would welcome HD asap.

TV is a different ballgame broadcast/cable TV is not on par with even DVD, but for movies, the differences are subtle. I was examining a clip I've got in HD and SD from SW AOTC, and on a 96" wide 2.35:1 720p screen, 1080i HD is only marginally better than 480p DVD.

[ldavis]

Sanger89,

Those are my thought exactly. HD is more trouble than SD expecially trying to use bleeding edge computer PVR software but for OTA it is well worth it, not the mention that I pay nothing for my TV or PVR service. For movies there is some benefit (most noticable with onscreen text or comuter animated features) but for the most part I think that the cost/benefit ratio just does not swing in favor of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Now, to be honest, I may change my mind when I see one but I doubt it.

TV is a different ballgame broadcast/cable TV is not on par with even DVD, but for movies, the differences are subtle. I was examining a clip I've got in HD and SD from SW AOTC, and on a 96" wide 2.35:1 720p screen, 1080i HD is only marginally better than 480p DVD.

[Crazedz]

Eh i'll stick to DVD till they come out with something that doesn't make me buy new displays etc. just to play them back on my PC as in vista's HDDVD only HD on HDMI displays and bluerays issues im just not interested in throwing out a whole bunch of change again because they want new lockdowns on hardware and systems.

DVI,HDMI,HDCP and as yet unnamed new DRM interface it's all just to much how many displays are we gonna have to buy because they wanna have some new lockdown on the system anyway?

[malore]

Blu-ray will most likely be the winner because every buyer of the PS3 will have a player. Microsoft's support of HD-DVD in Windows will have little effect, since almost all PC games/Software still come on multiple CD-ROMs because not all PC have DVD players even though the cost to equip them with a DVD player is minimal. Blu-ray's greater disc capacity should also make it the winner for PC use as long as the cost for recordable discs is competitive with recordable HD-DVDs.

Personally, I favor blu-ray because of its greater capacity, but it doesn't really mater to me, however I'm holding of on purchasing any movies until after the outcome is settled. Even, then it might pay to wait, judging by the habit of the studios to continue releasing ever improved versions of the same movie (superbit, ultimate, etc.).

[teknubic]

Wasn't it the porn industry that decided the last format war betamax vs. vhs?
I'm watching them.... er.. wait. I mean... nevermind

[Kanati]

HD is obviously much better than SD... It's also better than DVD if it's true HD. But I expect a lot of these movies that are going to get converted to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray are going to be glorified upconversions of 480p. And that's something I can do without. IF I decide to get one of the new players, it'll be most likely blu-ray... But I won't do it until there's "fixes" (read that as "hacks") for the insane DRM that they are planning for the players.

There's no way I'll buy a player that mates movies with it so they can't be played on another player in another room of the same house... There's no way I'm going to buy a player with the possibility of it getting trashed because a disc I put in has been "tampered" with or is defective. There's no way I'm purchasing a player that will only play discs at full resolution while hooked up via HDMI to another HDMI HDCP television...

HD-Divx players are looking pretty nice right about now as a compromise between dvd and hd-dvd

[Polypro]

DVD for me. My HTPC scales them to 1920x1080p and they look good enough to me.

P

[Lucas]

Irrespective of what format dominates, I am waiting for the time where buying or renting movies will be down the phone line.

There will be no need for a plastic disk then.

I expect that by the time the battle starts to show a winner, in 3-4 years time, unless one of the contenstants capitulates before then, there will be no talk of a next format.

In the meantime, as many have said, DVD content is king in terms of practical use for us HTPCers.

But I suspect we will see the same progress as DVD.

ie, first table top HD players proliferating and price coming down to a reasonable level. PC Drives will also come down in price.

Later on HD disk jukeboxes, and lastly someone figures a way to transfer the content from the plastic disks on to hard disk. Just like we have now.

Then it will be time for another content distribution medium war.....

[ben_95sl1]

I keep thinking that physical media like HD-DVD and Bluray will take so long and be expensive, that by that time, distribution will start going online anyway (atleast that's what I expect). What's the point of owning physical media if you can download any movie at any time near instantly without getting off your couch and without actually owning every movie. Pay a monthly fee and get that service. My computer can sort of handle HDTV now, but the only thing I'm waiting for is a war between physical media storage??? That's pretty lame. The internet can be used to legally distribute movies too; did they know that? We'll be moving to fibre internet soon I hope!! Video on Demand service seems like the future to me; either through internet, satellite of cable company.

[Crazedz]

Not for me i like to own my media and play it whenever i want without paying monthly fee's to some provider to do so. That's just one extra bill to worry about and then to have them up the price when they feel like they want more just for the privilage of streaming movies to me everytime i wanna watch them however often i feel like watching them. Maybe a lot this month maybe not so much next etc. Plus i wanna be able to take it with me to a friends house or what if i wanna view it on the road or at the cabin where theirs no internet connections of anykind?

Pay by play and monthly fee viewing maybe good for some people but others want the media and the content physically in their hands otherwise DVD's wouldn't be selling like they are not with pay per view and movies on demand and other pay networks like HBO and the like offering the movies before they get to disc.

Just sell me the media and i'll be happy cause i can watch it whenever i want having only paid for it once that's what i want.

[ldavis]

Crazedz,

I agree with you about wanting a physical medium, but I think that there is a place for both. For me, I would only purchase about 5 or 6 movies a year, but for the rest downloading a rental would be great. Even better would be downloading and being able to watch for a specificed rental period and at the end being able to upgrade to a full version that could be burned onto a disc that acted like HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, I would prefer little or no DRM but that is not going to happen so as long as the physical media will work in all players and I can use a ripped copy on my home network (managed copy protection?) then I am OK.

Lain

[ben_95sl1]

I also prefer owning things....downloading a movie could still consist of an option to buy it. Like downloading music. I just wonder how much longer this way of distributing content is going to last.