SageTV Client Computer Recommendations

[mike1961]

Hello - okay - I've done all the hard work. I have finally built my Sage Server with an AMD dual processor 1gb RAM and everything has been working great between that and two computers out of my home office.

Now - I'm ready to use it with my TV's in the family room and bedroom. But, I'm at a loss as to what to get or let's just say I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Ideally, I would of course like something that is 1) quiet like the Tivo that I plan to replace. 2) Preferably pre-built with a minimum slimline case quite fan / motherboard, onboard network card power supply 1gb memory, etc 3) Minimum heat problems (I think AMD is preferred). 4) Accepts a graphics card for svideo out. The rest I could do like putting the hard drive in, etc...but if the cost is reasonable then no problem. But, I keep seeing prices of above $1000 just for a workstation. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Any thoughts as to where to go to get the right stuff? Also, what speed should I be looking at. I want to get going on this.

Edited - Almost forgot - I'll need some recommendations on remote controls also. I've actually seen some from Logitech which actually just work with their keyboards but they don't have all the numbers and stuff. Now - it seems like that would really be great if it just interfaced with the keyboard because then you don't have to deal with all these USB adapters and ini files and stuff. All ideas appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

[blade]

Originally Posted by mike1961

4) Accepts a graphics card for svideo out. The rest I could do like putting the hard drive in, etc...but if the cost is reasonable then no problem. But, I keep seeing prices of above $1000 just for a workstation. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

If you're planning to use S-video then you might want to consider getting a MVP. That is unless you just want or need a full blown computer.

[mike1961]

What is an MVP? Is that a media extender? One thing I want though is the ability to view my mpeg 4 files which are in 264 format. Ideally, it would be nice to have access to the internet so yes a full blown computer is the idea but I don't need anything high power since I will only be using Sage, an mpeg 4 media player and maybe IE once in a while.

Thanks,
Mike

[mike1961]

Can anyone advise me on where to get a computer to run SageClient that is quiet and has a nice slimline case?

Thanks,
Mike

[lobosrul]

As of now SageTV wont do h.264 (trust me i tried), right now u have to use an external program plugin to play those through sage. That just means you click play on an mpeg4 and sage minimizes and something else (ie WMP) pops up.

I dont know if that can be done from a client.

Yes, this post is really just another place for me to say, "PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE add h.264 support... oh with chapter support too please".

[jettman]

what is h.264?

[mike1961]

I don't have a problem running H264 on a client. It works fine but it just needs to be a computer and not a media extender (AFAIK). With a computer you just install GermSage and you can easily tell Sage which media player to run. I tell it to run Nero Showtime. So, when I select any movies from the media center, Sage plays the mpeg 4 file using the Nero media player. Lobo - actually Sage does not minimize but it's screen save or background is displayed and the media player is loaded. You don't click on the mpeg4 file - you select it from the media center just as you do now.

But - again - I have to assume that many of you are using Sage to watch TV in the family room or bedroom. May I please inquire for the third time what you are all using? I want to get a computer but I don't want a noisy fan and I would prefer a nice slim case rather than a bulky tower. Somebody please help me. I'm stalled out......I have my server working great and my computers work great running Sage but nothing yet in the family room or bedroom because it's not practical to set up a bulky tower case with a noisy fan in the bedroom.

Oh - I've thought of a laptop but it just doesn't seem practical for the bedroom. This is because I would need to probably have it open all the time and also my kid is not likely to know how to insert a CD. Also - it's not as durable and is more expensive. Also - I would have to find some kind of USB video card for SVideo Out from the laptop which seems totally ridiculous. I would think there has to be somewhere I can order a slimline case with a quiet fan and power supply. Somebody please help.

Thanks,
Mike

[parkimar]

Have you thought about using a modded X-Box as a client - Coolwaves XBMC script looks pretty good to me - I have a modded X-Box - took about 20 minutes to Mod. (Although to be fair it took me a couple of hours of forum trawling, and a quick trip to Wal Mart to get everything ready for the mod attempt).

just my 2c.

Cheers

Mark

[mike1961]

How does that work? Is an XBox a computer with a hard drive that can run Windows? Otherwise, it's not going to work because I need to use media player to play my mpeg 4 files through Sage.

The other thing I have thought of is possibly finding a way to rig my Tivo but again, it needs to run windows so that I can use media player.

I just feel like this should not be so complicated. I just need two workstations.

Thanks,
Mike

[JUC]

If you're looking for prebuilts you could always look at shuttles. They have barebones with just mb's too. I used a shuttle as a client in my living room and it worked great. See sig. (although I need to change that now i guess). Some models are noisy while others are not so some research would be in order.

[lobosrul]

Yes I know you select the file thru sage for external playback. Glad to know this can be done on a client machine, i may set one up one day.

You might try out one of these: http://www.mini-itx.com/ . VIA's mini-itx boards. They come with a chip already permanently installed. Looking at the headline: 1.5Ghz fanless chips should be available soon. Shuttle carries pre-built systems.

[Wheemer]

For best results you should consider just putting together your own pc. That way you have full control over everything used.

[Jesse]

Hi,

I know you said you want something quiet and slim but if there is any way you can remotely locate the pc I would suggest doing it. My bedroom client is located in the closet. The box I use for playback in the family room is in the basement. Neither is quiet or small but I cant hear or see them so it does'nt matter. Yes, it is a pain running long cables, but it is still easier than building a very silent pc.

If a remote location is impossible then I would definitely look at a roll your own solution. For lots of cool tips and ideas on this I would look at http://www.htpcnews.com/. There are plenty of reviews and loads of good info on their forums.

HTH

Jesse

[lobosrul]

Im wondering how much "horse power" does a client pc need for running HDTV. Is most of the work done on the server or do i need a good vid card on the client?

I know the placeshifter works fine on my old celery work machine but not for hdtv (although thats a network encoding issue right?).

[paulbeers]

Actually, most of the horsepower for HDTV is done on the client. I had a server setup for awhile with a celeron 766 with 384 mb of ram that had a fusionlite 5 card and 2 m150'S running windows xp pro and sage and it had no problems recording. HDTV is already natively mpeg encoded so all the card does is pull the stream from the air and record it to the hard drive, then the server passes that encoded stream to the client. The client is then in charge of decoding this huge stream and placing it on the screen.

[parkimar]

How does that work? Is an XBox a computer with a hard drive that can run Windows? Otherwise, it's not going to work because I need to use media player to play my mpeg 4 files through Sage.

The other thing I have thought of is possibly finding a way to rig my Tivo but again, it needs to run windows so that I can use media player.

I just feel like this should not be so complicated. I just need two workstations.

Thanks,
Mike

The X-Box runs XBMC (X-Box Media Center - which can play a huge variety of files - I ran MP4, DivX, AVI, etc with no problems) , it can run scripts , and the XBMC script on this forum gives access to a large amount of the functionality of Sage.

Check it out

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/down...?do=file&id=68

Cheers

Mark

[mike1961]

A few questions:

1. Will this X-Box solution play the H264 mpeg4 files?

2. Will it play a DVD?

3a. Where do I purchase an XBOX and what are its dimensions?
3b. What model do you recommend?
3c. What price range will I find them in?
3d. Will they play a DVD through Sage?
3e. Can I run a media player like Nero to play H264 mpeg4 files
3f. Are they very quite (the fans if there are any)?

EDITED - > 3g - does x-box run Sage Client or media extender?

4. Jesse - the problem with remotely locating the computer is first I don't know how long you can run an SVideo cable without losing quality and two, no one will want to walk into a closet to put a DVD in the computer to play it.

5. I was really just thinking about a simple computer, nothing complicated but a reasonably slim case to fit in the entertainment center in place of the Tivo box. But, if an X-Box will work then great - that may be a perfect solution.

Thanks for the information,
Mike

[parkimar]

A few questions:

1. Will this X-Box solution play the H264 mpeg4 files?

2. Will it play a DVD?

3a. Where do I purchase an XBOX and what are its dimensions?
3b. What model do you recommend?
3c. What price range will I find them in?
3d. Will they play a DVD through Sage?
3e. Can I run a media player like Nero to play H264 mpeg4 files
3f. Are they very quite (the fans if there are any)?

EDITED - > 3g - does x-box run Sage Client or media extender?

4. Jesse - the problem with remotely locating the computer is first I don't know how long you can run an SVideo cable without losing quality and two, no one will want to walk into a closet to put a DVD in the computer to play it.

5. I was really just thinking about a simple computer, nothing complicated but a reasonably slim case to fit in the entertainment center in place of the Tivo box. But, if an X-Box will work then great - that may be a perfect solution.

Thanks for the information,
Mike

1) Unsure - although it can use streamed files
2) Yes - although the support of DVD menus is relatively new (It works fine on my system)
3a) Check out Wal Mart or any games store.
3b) I don't think you get much of a choice - it's just a games system that can be hacked.
3c) I picked mine up for about $120 then I paid about $8 for an HDTV component adaptor.
3d) No - you would use the built in DVD player
3e) In essence you are using the sage server as a file server - XBMC uses Mplayer to play it's files direct on the X-Box, the trick is that using the script makes it seamless so that you are flagging programs to be recorded, playing files, etc, which reside elsewhere.
5) I like the X-Box solution as the X-Box is relatively quite , scales nicely to 720p, plays everything I've thrown at it (included nero encoded MP4 files), and is small. (Note : I do not like it's appearance that much - a nice silver slimline box would be preferable !), and with the xbmc script gives most of the sage functionality - and it's a damn cheap option.


Cheers

Mark

[Humanzee]

<start blog>
I'm going to be building some sort of client myself. Im thinking a mini atx board that has on board network, audio, and video.

There are a number of the nForce 6150 mother boards with on board video that can support HD resolutions and decoders like pure video. Also there are more and more HTPC cases that are designed for the mini ATX size of board. Check out www.pcalchemy.com for a variety of different cases.

There are also many HTPC articles on sites like http://www.anandtech.com/systems/ and http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/10/...me_theater_pc/
and of course www.htpcnews.com

Personally I don't think I would go down the XBox route or the media extender route unless I already had the hardware laying around. I think that there are too many limitations posed by the hardware to make it worth dealing with. The extender may work for you and isn't too expensive, but there are already limits to what you can do with it. Also, just because you can make and XBox into a media extender, doesn't mean that you should. I saw the xbox360 media center as an MCE extender at a friends house the other day. Nice integration but it was not a big suprise to me that it wouldn't play DIVX, or i263 or .mov etc even though his MCE server could.

With a small client PC you know what you are getting into. You arn't stuck with only a few options for the software. How many different kinds of multimedia/pvr software can you run on a PC vs. an XBOX, a dedicated PVR or an extender device?

I learned the hard way about buying dedicated hardware, I payed extra for the PVR-350 because of its hardware decoder. It works perfectly as a hardware decoder as long as you don't want to watch anything other than an mpeg2. Also I quickly found out that it has its own series of oddities with its OSD that make it of limited use with sage.

If I had put that extra money into a better graphics card or a second tuner, both of which I had to buy later, I would have been way ahead. My 350's decoder chip just sits idle now because it was designed for one thing, and it couldn't evolve like software written for a pc can.

I started with the pvr-350 and a 900mghz cpu. The nice thing about building a PC is that you can always rebuild and upgrade it. Add a hard drive, upgrade the video card. etc. 2 years after I started playing with HTPC's im still using some of my original hardware if not for the HTPC in other computers in the house. Chances are that you won't be able to upgrade that graphics card in the xbox when you decide you want 1080p.

You are right about one thing though, building a PC will cost you. Every component seems to cost about a hundred bucks. Add up a mother board, ram, cpu, case, power supply, hard drive, graphics card, remote control and you are getting close to a grand. But then again, I expect you can re-use many of those parts if you ever need to upgrade.
I kind of want to upgrade my server, which may mean that I can re-use the current hardware to build a client.. Depending on if I want a new case thats almost 2 for the price of one.

Those are my thoughts anyway. Im sure others opinions will differ. My advise is to think farther ahead than your current needs. I know I will eventually have more than one HDTV. So it makes some sence for me to build a client that could be capable of displaying it.

It could also be that in the future our media content may come streaming across the internet. Would an extender be able to handle that? Maybe.
<end blog>

[mike1961]

Humanzee - I guess where I'm really stuck is that I would love to just get a slim case, power supply, quiet fan, motherboard memory and CPU. I don't want to have to put that together. I can easily put the rest together including a hard drive, cards in the computer, etc. But, I don't want to have to build it all from scratch. Isn't there somewhere that sells just the barebones system including slim "tivo like" case, QUIET power supply/fan, motherboard, BIOS, memory and CPU? If I could get that somewhere, I'd be home free.


What do you mean by the XBOX --> "it can be hacked?" Is there something I need to do to it or do I just go out and buy the XBox along with it's media center software and that is it? Also - I assume it comes with a remote control?

Thanks again,
Mike