SageTV Client Computer Recommendations

[blade]

Originally Posted by mike1961

4. Jesse - the problem with remotely locating the computer is first I don't know how long you can run an SVideo cable without losing quality and two, no one will want to walk into a closet to put a DVD in the computer to play it.

I have a full size tower tucked away in the corner of the living room behind a chair. It's completely out of sight and is so quite that it can't be heard. If I ever get around to it, I plan to get an external enclosure to put my dvd drive in. That way I can play dvds and the only thing that will be seen is the tiny external enclosure sitting by the TV.

I always wanted a client like you're seeking; however, I never could get mine quite enough to suit me. Of course I wanted almost dead silence and it's much easier to cool a regular case than a tiny one.

[parkimar]

Hi,

yes the X-Box needs hacking (Very easy to do), or you install the x-Box MCE extender software, which only works with MCE systems.

Cheers

Mark

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by parkimar

Hi,
yes the X-Box needs hacking (Very easy to do), or you install the x-Box MCE extender software,

A friend of mine modified his xbox years ago, at that time it required opening the case for the xbox and installing a chip which enables you to access and change the operating system on the machine. He installed some varient of linux I think which allowed him to store his games on the xbox hard drive and to play video files copied across the network from his computer. Ya it works but if you don't want to build a computer from componenets you probably don't want to go modding and hacking on something that

Originally Posted by parkimar

only works with MCE systems.

As far as "bare-bones" systems lobosrul mentioned the products from Shuttle. The only problem with most of them them is that they look more like a cube than a standard AV component. They do have a newer "M" chassis design that looks nice but it is expensive. http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BuildXPC.aspx?id=1153

[lobosrul]

Can the hacked Xboxes do live tv? What kind of functionality do the 360's have theyre supposed to work with vista (if its every actualy released).

I think if i was going to put together a client right now id go with mini-itx (not atx), and like a 4GB flash card used for booting. Some of them do DVI-D!

You really dont need much power especialy if ur not doing hdtv.

[Jesse]

Hi,

There are plenty of places that sell barebones kits, but I cannot say I have seen one that comes with a proper HTPC case.

As far as svid cable length I have used a 25' cable with my sony directv receiver. The pq was no different than when I used a 3' svid cable. Currently my HTPC connects to my tv via 38' home made component cables. DVI and HDMI cables are commonly available up to 50' in length.

If you dont want to build it yourself then that is all the more reason to locate it outside of your viewing room. Look at all the discussions on AVS and htpcnews about how to build a quiet htpc. Folks are going to great lengths (passively cooled power supplies, passively cooled vid cards, laptop hdd's, special cooling fans, etc. etc.) to get a silent htpc. This is a huge pita and getting one pre-built really means a bespoke machine $$$$. Why not just get a barebones kit and a seperate stand alone DVD player if using the computer's drive will be inconvenient?

I dont have any experience with AMD, but I can tell you that my P4 3.0 gig client plays back HD beautifully. This is a basic midtower case with the above mentioned cpu, an intel D865perl mobo, a rebate HDD, an NEC dvd rom, xp pro, 1 gig of kingston ram and an evga 6600gt (agp). You should be able to get a barebones machine and whatever else is needed for @ $700. If you prefer AMD then I am sure you could get a comparable machine for the same or even less.

Good luck and have fun .

Jesse

[parkimar]

A friend of mine modified his xbox years ago, at that time it required opening the case for the xbox and installing a chip which enables you to access and change the operating system on the machine. He installed some varient of linux I think which allowed him to store his games on the xbox hard drive and to play video files copied across the network from his computer. Ya it works but if you don't want to build a computer from componenets you probably don't want to go modding and hacking on something that

I softmodded mine - All I had to do was copy a gamesave to a X-Box compatable USB memory stick then execute it from the game. (I did create a boot disk to install XBMC from - but thats not neccessary since the exploit gives you FTP access to the X-Box and the option of what dashboard you want to run.

No Opening of box , etc.

Cheers

Mark

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

Can the hacked Xboxes do live tv? What kind of functionality do the 360's have theyre supposed to work with vista (if its every actualy released).

The better question is what can it do that a HTPC can't? Answer: play xbox 360 games.

However, The xbox 360 is designed from the begining to be not only a gaming platform but also a media center extender. He has a machine upstairs with a windows media center edition on it and a pvr500. He can watch live tv down stairs streamed from the machine upstairs, recorded video's, look at his photo collection, play music etc. All the normal media center stuff. It is integrated nicely with MCE and it seems to do a fair job.

All thats fine if you want to use MCE and deal with all the DRM and codec limitations. However, the xbox360 isn't a PC. When I went over to his place I brough my portable USB hard drive so as to give him some HDTV recordings that I have. (he has a plasma TV but no HD sources) We spent half of our time running back and forth between the room with the 360 and TV and the room with the server. If he had a client HTPC we could have plugged in my drive to any PC in the network and tested or transfered files to the server remotely.

Also with a client PC we could have installed codecs for media types other than what is allowed by microsoft on the 360.

The 360 in neat but its just not for me. I'm hands on, I want to tinker. So for now I'm sticking with computers instead of devices.

[mayamaniac]

one of limitations of the xbox is you can't turn it on via remote control, you have to push the button on the console itself. It's amazing how much they can make an xbox do, but in the end, its mostly a "tinker with" thing, meaning there's always something missing or something that does not work. So xbox is not a very good solution for SageTV client, its a game machine.

I posted a thread about making an intel Mac Mini as a sageTV client machine, I'm still waiting for someone to try it and report the results. The other option is to try the Aopen version of the mini, as someone suggested in that same thread.

[evilpenguin]

I love my Shuttle SN25P client. If you get a quiet harddrive, passive graphics card, and turn on AMD cool n'quiet you'll never even notice it.

[cord]

I just assembled two clients, both using ASUS micro-ATX motherboards with the geforce 6150 chipsets. Each one has the motherboard, CPU, RAM, a DVD-ROM, and a 2.5" SATA notebook drive. Neither one has any expansion cards sticking up at all. They both have the incredibly great Seasonic power supply and the equally great Zalman CNPS-7700alcu chip cooler. They both run XP home, sage client, and the nivdia decoders. That's all that's there. It took me about eight hours to build the first box and less than four to do the second one. I could just about do a third one in my sleep. This stuff is trivially easy, and it just *works* with no real hassle.

(Of course, it helps that both my TVs have RGB and/or DVI.)

If you want help/advice in a more interactive fashion, let me know. I can send/post pics of my setup and give some tips on how to build-your-own. I can even make a newegg cart and email it to you, if you want. This stuff's dead easy.

[mike1961]

Well - I saw an HP Slimline computer for around $400-$500 with XP which is not too bad I guess.

Here's the problem - the slimline does not have an SVideo out. Now I'm thinking I either need a slimline graphics card or better yet a VGA to SVideo in cable. Do they make such a cable and will it work? I saw one on pccable.com but I'm not positive it will work. Does anyone know? Also, I'm wondering if there may be a chain store that sells these cables if they exist so I don't have to order it and wait a few days. Otherwise, I guess I need to find a slimline graphics card.

Cord - what was the price range you found to build the computers?

Thanks,
Mike

[Cazador]

I am surpised I am the first one to say this. You want a slim computer, w/o loud fans, that can play svideo. Why not get a cheap laptop? The prices have fallen down to the $700. And it has svideo out, can play divx, or any other format you want. And of course you still have windows on it

[mike1961]

I've thought about a laptop but here are my issues with that:

1. I got a slimline for a little over $400 so it's less money.

2. If I put the laptop in my entertainment center, the DVD's on laptops open on the side (usually the right side) rather than to the front so you can't really put it in an entertainment center (without turning it to its side).

3. If you can get one with svideo out then it's not so bad.

4. Not a lot of expandability and probably more costly to fix but if they were cheaper then it could be a viable solution.

I've ordered my VGA to SVideo cable converter on Ebay and I'm hoping that it will work with my slimline. You just would not think finding an ideal client workstation would be so hard.

I'm just not sure what the "ideal solution" really is. It seems like some use the media extender but that along with xbox appears to have too many limitations except for basic stuff. Then with regular client slimline stations you have to worry about noise, compactness, reliability and not overheating.

I definitely appreciate all the ideas and feedback. For some reason, before starting this thread, I thought there would be more uniformity on how everyone is setting up the client with Sage.


Thanks,
Mike

[Steerpike]

If you just want a client, with a nice case, have you thought about a packaged Media Center solution? My local Fry's Electronics sells a complete MCE system from HP for about $800 - good looking, black, 3" tall case, complete with remote, IR blasters, tuner (which you could ignore), etc. You could ignore the MCE element altogether and run Sage on it. This is a sample device I'm talking about, though this one is more expensive than the ones I see at Fry's http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/sh...=EG651AA%23ABA
(this one also has a pentium chip; I'd go with an AMD chip for a quieter solution).

I've seriously considered one of these, but at the time I needed to put my own tuner in and that was a limitation. There is ZERO expansion - at least, no conventional slots - but there are USB ports for storage.

Interesting devices - you get a full-blown computer, plus the remote, keyboard, and lots of TV connector options. Not necessarily my cup of tea, but a nicely priced package.

[mike1961]

You are right - expansion is limited on these slimline systems but you do get windows. Also - I clicked on your link and it said $1400+ dollars. Certainly too much for a workstation when you consider Tivo's cost a few hundred bucks.

Okay - I picked up one of these HP Slimlines at Bestbuy and I'm hoping they work well and that there are no problems with them getting too hot (due to the slimline case). I'm just waiting for my VGA to SVideo cable...otherwise, how can you hook the thing to a TV? There is one slimline pci slot which already has a modem in it. Not that I need one but why buy another graphics card with svideo out if I can just get a cable? I'm hoping this cable will work.

Here's the link to these $400-$500 computers. The only difference is 1.5 vs. 1.6 mhz celerons and hard disk space 160 vs 200gb. Also, the first one comes with 512 vs 1gb Ram and also windows home media vs mce edition.

Here's the link....they are so compact which is what I like. My thought was "wow" I can replace 3 boxes with 1 in the family room and the bedroom. I will put this compact slimline pc in place of my Tivo, my cable box, and my DVD player.

I'm sure you can get these HP's in a lot of places but I got mine at Bestbuy (14 day return policy, no restocking fees on desktops). Here's the link:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....questid=135921

Mike

[Steerpike]

Originally Posted by mike1961

... I clicked on your link and it said $1400+ dollars.

I only provided the link for a picture of what the devices look like; my local Fry's are selling an HP box visually identical to the one in the picture for about $800.

Originally Posted by mike1961

Okay - I picked up one of these HP Slimlines at Bestbuy and I'm hoping they work well and that there are no problems with them getting too hot (due to the slimline case).

I'd almost guarantee they won't overheat - commercial PCs never do that ... they just have loud fans! Noise will be your issue, not overheating.

Originally Posted by mike1961

I'm just waiting for my VGA to SVideo cable...otherwise, how can you hook the thing to a TV?

I wish you the best of luck with your purchase, but I think going for a VGA to S-Video adapter is not going to be ideal. Is it really just a cable? There's no electrical / active components? That seems too good to be true. I always assumed there would have to be some conversion, but a quick google suggests there are some passive cables out there doing this ... interesting. Good Luck! Most new flat screens (plasmas, LCDs, etc) have VGA and/or DVI inputs, so this is not an issue going forward).

[mike1961]

You are absolutely right....but I still have a "regular TV" so I need the SVideo. I'll let everyone know if the cable works. Correct - there are no active electrical components with this cable so I'm not sure what the deal is but it's worth a try.

Regarding the fan - I'll tell you this, I tried listening very carefully in the store and could not hear anything but - it's obviously not the same as listening at home so I'll let you know about that too.

Thanks,
Mike

[jlindborg]

Just thought I’d mention the client I setup this last weekend – decided to do a “cube” style case with an AMD processor – Aopen has quite a number to choose from but I liked the EZ482 since it’s pretty cheap. It’s going for under $300 on NewEgg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16856140018

I’ve seen it on the “refurbished” list now and again for even less than that. Here’s a nice review with good pics:

http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rid=117035

I just dropped a quiet Samsung 40 gig drive and an Athlon 3200+ I had around, and an Sony DVD player ($20 on NewEgg) and 512 meg of ram. I'm sure a lower end processor like a 2800 would work dandy for Sage client and kick out less heat but the 3200's what I had on hand.

After stripping down the XP services, fiddling with the boot devices in BIOS and removing the XP gui stuff during boot it goes from powered off to loaded client in about 35 seconds. Not too shabby (actually faster than my MVPs).

I honestly wasn’t expecting to be blow away but when I set it up in my living room and hooked it to my 42” Pannasonic plasma – SD and DVD playback on the stock system using the built in video card (with NVidia PureVideo) looks good and playback is pretty smooth smooth using overlay (VMR9 was not smooth).

The CPU temperatures after a couple hours of SD playback hovered right around 42 C, which isn’t too bad – drive and case temps stayed fine. And it’s very, very quiet.

With an NVidia 6200 fanless (can be had on NewEgg for less than $50) I had, the playback was even better, VMR9 worked well and temperatures only went up a couple points (CPU stabalized at around 44 C). I was worried the card would block the air flow but it didn't have that big of an impact. I thought the component video looked better than using a DVI to HDMI cable, but that could just be my eye - I actually left it on SVideo so I could fiddle with the zoom on the Plasma which I prever when switching sources to dorking around with the overlay in Sage - it looks great even with SVideo - better than the MVP client it's replacing by a fairly wide stretch - probably due to supporting VMR9 I'm guessing.

HD doesn’t quite cut it on the built in video or the 6200, but then again I didn’t expect it to. I’ll be tossing in a fanless NVidia 6600 next weekend and seeing how that works. Temperature may be an issue there but I’m sure it’ll be workable.

Anyway – a better deal than the HPs in my opinion, and I like the SFF cube look better than the slim line myself.

[mike1961]

A few questions:

1. Is an MVP the media extender? What does MVP stand for?

2. How do you find out what the CPU temperature is?

3. Cost wise - they seem comparable since the HP comes with a hard drive and windows.

4. You said: "HP doesn’t quite cut it on the built in video or the 6200" Can you be more specific on what you mean by the video and what the 6200 is?

Also - you said you like the cube better. I think the cube will dissipate the heat better but it won't fit in an entertainment center in the spots where one would put a VCR. But, it's width is advantageous if one is going to put it on a shelf.

Thanks,
Mike


Anyway – a better deal than the HPs in my opinion, and I like the SFF cube look better than the slim line myself.

[jlindborg]

1. MVP (Music, Video, Picture) - yes - it's the media extender - you can check it out on Hauppauge's site here:

http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/produ..._mediamvp.html

It's nice for many things (I have 2) but it doesn't handle HD, it can't handle some audio formats and it can be a little sluggish. But for the price on a regular TV, it can't be beat in my opinion.

2. Most tier 1 motherboards come with monitoring software. AOpen isn't tier 1 ;->. I use SpeedFan on most of my boxes - it's pretty nifty and its free. You can check it out here:

http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

3. Well, yeah, but the built in video card on the HP unit is weak (VGA to SVideo is not going to put a smile on anyone's face). And I get my XP licenses in 6 packs so I always have plenty lying around. And 40 gig Samsung drive (Spinpoint - nice and quiet), runs around $45 - this is a client so you don't need or want a big drive hanging off there.

4. The High Definition playback (HD, not HP) was not good on the built in ATI video chipset or using the NVidia fanless 6200 I had here to try. Pretty jerky playback. For HD playback you need some horsepower so the Nvidia 6600 I have coming will do a much more respectable job I'm sure.

That's true about form factor - it's a personal choice. Mine is going on a bookshelf near my Plasma so the cube if fabulous. I'd like a mini cube (AOpen has one, or the Mac Mini) but there's no room for cards and the base systems I found so far don't have the gumption to run HD output just yet. They're getting close, those - the tiny form factor like that would be ideal with just a few tweeks.