Thinking about buying, have a few questions

[Maoukiji]

I'm currently looking into converting an old computer (Specs below) into a DVR, and right now the top two software packages I'm looking at are SageTV and MyhTV.

I have a few questions about SageTV before I decide, though, so here they are:
-Does SageTV just go over top of Windows XP?
-Can I still run various programs while SageTV is running? Such as Winamp (Shoutcast video) or VLC (Video player with all codecs embedded inside it)
-Does this package work with TVs that don't have an S-Video cable? Only composite?
-What happens when I'm watching through a normal TV, but a certain show uses HDTV, and I'm using the package listed above? (Such as Smallville, they always broadcast in HDTV)
-Do I just hook up my cable line to this card, then another (Like a composite 'external device (Like dvd or vcr) to TV' connector) to my TV?
-Does the capture card included work in other DVR software, shall I ever feel the need to switch?
-What exactly is included, software wise, with this package?
- I was looking at this , and saw something that worried me:

providing up to a 14-day Integrated Programming Guide, One-touch Recording, Favorites Manager, Search, Music, Photos, DVD Playback and much more.

What does this mean exactly? I can't use SageTV after 14 days? (Is this what is included in the package I had originally listed?)


Sorry for so many questions, but I like being informed before buying something I'm going to use a lot


Specs:
- 2.0ghz Celeron
- 768mb ram
- 120gb

[cslatt]

I'm sure other people will chime in who may have more experience, but I'll at least take a shot at this.

- Yes, it just runs as an application on top of Windows.

- Yes, you can run other applications while Sage is running, you can minimize it just like any other application so that you can use winamp, vlc, etc. You can also run SageTV as a Windows Service.

- I believe if your TV doesn't have an S-Video connector, you could use a S-Video to Composite adapter. I've gotten a couple of them for free over the years with various video cards, but they are also available cheap online. (Some places as cheap as two dollars)

- I know the capture card in that package is a Standard Definition-only capture card, so it won't capture HD signals. Someone else will have to chime in with the details of HD broadcast / SD capture card.

- Yes, you just hook up your cable line to the input on the card and the output of the card to an input on your TV, just like you would a VCR. If you have a set-top cable box or satellite interface that does the channel changing, that will have to sit in between and you'll have to setup the IR Blaster included in the package so that Sage can change channels on the set-top box.

- The capture card included in the package (Hauppage PVR-150) is quite widely supported by other software (BeyondTV, MythTV, etc)

- The package mentioned includes the standard SageTV Version 4 software. It may also include Hauppage's very basic WinTV software which is occasionally useful for testing, but little else. I'm not certain.

- The referenced "14 days" of guide data just means that Sage only downloads guide data for the upcomding two weeks. This simply means you can't go look and see what's going to be showing next month, for instance.

I hope you end up going with Sage, I've been quite happy with it!

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Maoukiji

I'm currently looking into converting an old computer (Specs below) into a DVR, and right now the top two software packages I'm looking at are SageTV and MyhTV.

I have a few questions about SageTV before I decide, though, so here they are:
-Does SageTV just go over top of Windows XP?

Yup.

-Can I still run various programs while SageTV is running? Such as Winamp (Shoutcast video) or VLC (Video player with all codecs embedded inside it)

Yup.

-Does this package work with TVs that don't have an S-Video cable? Only composite?

That's just the input/recording side, output is left to your video card.

-What happens when I'm watching through a normal TV, but a certain show uses HDTV, and I'm using the package listed above? (Such as Smallville, they always broadcast in HDTV)

The card included in that does not receive HD. If you had an HD tuner, HD recordings would be downconverted to whatever output you're using.

-Do I just hook up my cable line to this card,

Yup.

then another (Like a composite 'external device (Like dvd or vcr) to TV' connector) to my TV?

For output, you connect your video card to your TV (most video cards have TV outputs).

For an SDTV though, you might want to consider a MediaMVP (SageTV Extender) as well, it will provide better output quality than you're likely to get with a video card:
http://store.sagetv.com/Merchant2/me...tegory_Code=SB

-Does the capture card included work in other DVR software, shall I ever feel the need to switch?

That one, the PVR 150, works in almost everything (including Myth).

-What exactly is included, software wise, with this package?

SageTV and drivers.

- I was looking at this , and saw something that worried me:

What does this mean exactly? I can't use SageTV after 14 days? (Is this what is included in the package I had originally listed?)

It means the guide only goes 14 days into the future, there's really no data beyond that. It does not mean that the guide stops working after 14 days. There is no fee for the guide data beyond the purchase price of SageTV.

Sorry for so many questions, but I like being informed before buying something I'm going to use a lot

More people need to do that

[Maoukiji]

Thanks for the quick answers
-Am I understanding this correctly? If a show is in HDTV, the package linked above can NOT record it AT ALL!? And the same for the HDTV card, if a show ISN'T HDTV, it CAN'T record it AT ALL?
Please tell me I'm wrong, because if I'm right... That just doesn't make any sense, a lot of shows are broadcasting in HDTV now, while a lot aren't - I'd have to constantly swap the two cards (Assuming I even bought two)

-So the hardware/software package includes all software by SageTV, in other words, the top software package? (Client, server, etc.)?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Maoukiji

Thanks for the quick answers
-Am I understanding this correctly? If a show is in HDTV, the package linked above can NOT record it AT ALL!? And the same for the HDTV card, if a show ISN'T HDTV, it CAN'T record it AT ALL?

Sage can record HD, but requires a card capable of it. The PVR-150 in the above package, is not capable of recording HD. Cards that are include: Avermedia A180, Dvico Fusion 5, Vbox Cat's Eye.

However the HD cards do not work well (if at all) for SD.

Please tell me I'm wrong, because if I'm right... That just doesn't make any sense, a lot of shows are broadcasting in HDTV now, while a lot aren't - I'd have to constantly swap the two cards (Assuming I even bought two)

You can have more than one card, and Sage can record of any or all of them simultaneously with no intervention on your part.

-So the hardware/software package includes all software by SageTV, in other words, the top software package? (Client, server, etc.)?

It includes the everything you need to setup one PC with SageTV. ie it includes SageTV which provides User Interface and Playback functionality, as well as server and recording functionality. SageTV can run standalone.

If you wish to setup additional PCs, you would need a copy of SageClient (which provides UI/Playback, and access to the server, but not server/recording function) for each additional PC.

To put it another way (and I hope not confuse the issue), SageTV provides both client and server functionality, however it's not a true client, it's only a "pseudo-client", it's tied to the server PC. SageClient provides client functionality and requires a server somewhere on the network to run, and SageRecorder is a legacy program that's of little/no use anymore. There is no backend-only (server/recorder) program.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Maoukiji

Please tell me I'm wrong, because if I'm right... That just doesn't make any sense, a lot of shows are broadcasting in HDTV now, while a lot aren't

One more comment, if you don't have an HDTV, then don't worry about HD recording. Regardless of if an HD broadcast is available, your cable system will be providing you the SD version of it. In essence, if you have an SD card, you won't "miss" HD programs.

If you've only got OTA (Over The Air, aka broadcast) then I'd definitely consider getting an "HDTV" card, because, HD or not, pretty much everything is broadcast in digital, and as long as it's digital an ATSC (the more accurate name probably) card can receive it.

Of course there's always the option of getting both an NTSC (SD) and an ATSC (HD) card and using both.

On and one more thing....

I've been hearing good things about the new nVidia PureVideo DualTV card lately, you might want to consider it vs the PVR-150:
http://www.nvidia.com/page/dualtvmce.html

It offers two tuners (two simultaneous recordings), reportedly better PQ and/or smaller recordings than the Hauppauge cards, and is supported by SageTV and MCE (and probably the rest of the Windows PVR apps in the future).

[mayamaniac]

Maoukiji,

SageTV can be setup in a simple way or complicated way, it depends on what you want it to do. So maybe describe what you want to achieve and maybe people here can help buy the right components to make that happen.

SageTV needs to make a Video demo of what SageTV is all about, from basic info about the software to hardware and how it is setup. Eversince 4.0 was released, I see a lot of new users here asking all the basic questions. I know if they search the forum they can find all the answers, but that requires endless amount of reading. A video demo would be a nice intro to SageTV for new users like Maoukiji.

But this is still the best user-to-user support forum. Most other forums, you would get "RTFM!" or "Use Search Noob!" kinda of replies.

[k9k9]

Although not related to cards... I would have to say that this Sage forum is easily the most helpful in getting you up and running.

The users and moderators here are so much better than the MythTV forums... you will get quick responses and helpful hints that allow you to spend more time enjoying your setup than you will working on it (and by "working on it" I really mean "trying to figure out something that EVERYONE knows and won't tell you because apparently you SHOULD know it").

[Maoukiji]

Thanks again for the replies everyone...
And what I want is basically this:
I currently am using Cox Digital Cable, I have no idea if its HD or not but I do know that certain shows ARE broadcasted in HD, but since my TV can't use HD - it ... doesn't use it.
What does this mean? What exactly prevents me or lets me view HD programming? Why wouldn't a capture card do the same thing my TV does? Man am I confused

Oh yeah, and as for the GeForce card - way out of my league in terms of price... I only want to spend ~$250 (Thats with a $100 hard drive) total

[mayamaniac]

Looks like you are on a budget, then I suggest you start with a simple setup. You can buy that SageTV Media Center In-a-Box package and that should get you started.

For HDTV, you will not only need a an HD capture card, but also an HDTV set to watch it. You can't watch HD shows on a non-HD TV set. Also, you can only record shows off the air (OTA), you can't record HD shows from the cable box.

With SageTV, you can always upgrade later. So just start with the basic for now. I would suggest getting a SageTV Media Extender if you want to get a SageTV client.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Maoukiji

Thanks again for the replies everyone...
And what I want is basically this:
I currently am using Cox Digital Cable, I have no idea if its HD or not but I do know that certain shows ARE broadcasted in HD

Then for now, I would just remove HD from your decision process/confusion

but since my TV can't use HD - it ... doesn't use it.
What does this mean?

Without an HDTV, you can't see HD, in HD.

What exactly prevents me or lets me view HD programming?

At it's most basic, not having an HDTV tuner prevents you from tuning HD programming.
Lack of an HDTV prevents you from view HD programming (as HD).

Why wouldn't a capture card do the same thing my TV does?

It's no different than your TV. Without an HD capable tuner, a TV card won't be able to "see" the HD (or more generally: digital) broadcasts.

Without an HD display, even if you tune HD broadcasts, they won't be displayed as HD, they'll be converted back down to SD.

Man am I confused

Don't worry, there's lots of lingo and it takes a while for it to sink in

Oh yeah, and as for the GeForce card - way out of my league in terms of price... I only want to spend ~$250 (Thats with a $100 hard drive) total

Just a suggestion , the 150 is definitely a nice card, and in all honesty, it's a proven card (where the nVidia isn't) and I'd probably recommend going with the proven card for a new user anyway.

[Maoukiji]

Okay one last time (I'm sorry I'm so stupid )
Unless I have my cable hooked through a cable box that processes HD shows (Such as Smallville), the TV Tuner will see it as OTA? So even though WB puts 'Broadcasted in HD where available' on Smallville, as long as I can view it on a non-HD (Pre-HD even) TV, it will record correctly? I only need to worry about channels that are PURE HD, like 'Science Channel HDTV'?


Also, with my service I get 50-60 extra channels, but they're all over 100 so my current TV can't handle it without a special cable box... Will I be able to view these channels with my SageTV setup? Is it just a matter of decrypting digital TV, or is there some sort of lock so that you're forced to buy their hardware?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Maoukiji

Okay one last time (I'm sorry I'm so stupid )
Unless I have my cable hooked through a cable box that processes HD shows (Such as Smallville), the TV Tuner will see it as OTA?

OTA means "Over The Air", via Antenna.

So even though WB puts 'Broadcasted in HD where available' on Smallville, as long as I can view it on a non-HD (Pre-HD even) TV, it will record correctly?

Yup, the HD version is a different broadcast, that uses different hardware to receive it.

The tuner works exactly like your SDTV, anything you can view on your SDTV, you can record on the tuner. Any channels you can tune with your SDTV directly, you can tune with the tuner. Any channels you need the box to view, you will need the box to record.

I only need to worry about channels that are PURE HD, like 'Science Channel HDTV'?

Even then, the box will downconvert them to SD, assuming you can watch them on your SDTV, you can record them with the 150.

Also, with my service I get 50-60 extra channels, but they're all over 100 so my current TV can't handle it without a special cable box... Will I be able to view these channels with my SageTV setup?

You will need to use the box to record them with SageTV (it's a hardware limitation). You can get an IR blaster so that SageTV can change channels on the box when it needs to.

Is it just a matter of decrypting digital TV, or is there some sort of lock so that you're forced to buy their hardware?

They're encrypted and until Windows Vista with CableCard support, you'll have to use their box to do the decrypting.

[Maoukiji]

Thanks, I'm pretty sure I have it, but uh... SDTV = ?

[cslatt]

Originally Posted by Maoukiji

Thanks, I'm pretty sure I have it, but uh... SDTV = ?

SDTV = Standard Definition Television = normal old TV that everyone is used to = not HD

[cslatt]

Also, I think you've got it, but just to make sure it's clear.... if you want to be able to record ALL the channels you get from your cable company, your setup will look like this:

CABLE FROM THE WALL >>>> Cable Box >>>> Input on Capture Card

You'll then stick the IR blaster that comes with the package to your cable box so that Sage can channel the channel on your cable box when it needs to go record something on a different channel.


The output end would look like this:

Output from your video card >>>>> your TV.