Windows OS Not Showing In WideScreen

[mike1961]

Hello - I got a new 42" TV for upstairs and for some reason nothing is filling up the screen including the windows OS. So, since the Windows OS does not fill up the screen, neither does Sage or watching TV. It is not filling up the entire screen either vertically or horizontally and I've already tried setting the 16x9 as well as 4x3 settings on the TV. It filled it just fine on my other 20" TV which I had that hooked via svideo. The 42" I have hooked via component video. I'm also wondering since the 42" supports component as well as VGA which would be a better hoookup.

Anyway, I have a built in ATI graphics card on the motherboard of an AOpen cube workstation and I'm wondering why it's not filling the screen. I've already set the horz and video size settings on the TV to 100%. It's strange but got me wondering for all of you with widescreens, are you seeing the windows OS in widescreen as well?

Thanks,
Mike

[MoopZilla]

What resolution are you setting it as? I know for my widescreen, I had to set it to 1280 x 720 for widescreen.

You should definitely use the VGA connection.

[aperry]

Originally Posted by mike1961

I'm also wondering since the 42" supports component as well as VGA which would be a better hoookup.

VGA connection, without a doubt.

I just wish my TV had a VGA hookup (too old to have one, heck, it doesn't even have DVI).

[Polypro]

Find the native resolution of the TV from the manual or online, and set the graphics driver to that rez. If it still doesn't fill the screen, look for underscan adjustments in the ATI CCC (research wich ATI version is best, it may not be the latest. I don't use ATI). VGA definitely...also look for an auto-adjust option on the TV.



P

[mike1961]

By component, I didn't mean one RCA yellow cable. I meant the connection that supports 3 cables (red, green and blue) for component video. Are you saying VGA gives a better picture? So much misinformation out there. I heard that the order for level of quality was VGA then component then HDMI (with HDMI being the best).

The resolution did fix the problem but if my Plasma TV is 1024x768 would it still be okay to set it to a higher resolution (it worked in something like 1152x652 or something like that 1100 something by 6 something). 1280x768 is a native resolution but it's making the vertical too big and I can't shrink it enough and ATI does have a support for other resolutions.

Thanks again,
Mike

[mike1961]

The native for the TV is 1024x768 and it definitely does not fill the screen no matter what I do with the picture Horz and Vert size adjustments. I'm not sure what you mean by "underscan adjustments in the ATI CCC"

Also, just double checking that VGA is better than component video (with the 3 cables red, green and blue).

Thanks,
Mike

Originally Posted by Polypro

Find the native resolution of the TV from the manual or online, and set the graphics driver to that rez. If it still doesn't fill the screen, look for underscan adjustments in the ATI CCC (research wich ATI version is best, it may not be the latest. I don't use ATI). VGA definitely...also look for an auto-adjust option on the TV.



P

[thatdude90210]

Is that a 42" plasma? You might be better off just going with 1280x720, saves a lot of headaches messing with aspect ratios for different apps.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mike1961

I heard that the order for level of quality was VGA then component then HDMI (with HDMI being the best).

I expect they were thinking Composite when they said VGA is better. Though technically VGA/RGB is better than component (YPbPr), the difference is so slightly you'll probably never be able to tell, for all intents and purposes, they're the same. Basically VGA is a slightly less processed format (the display will need to convert to RGB from component anyway).

But the real difference between the two is convenience. With Component your video card should give you CE timings (720p, 1080i, etc), while you might have to fanagle with VGA to get them.

Back to the topic at hand, it sounds like you've got two options:
1) Run at 1024x768, which should fill the screen (there may be a setting).
2) Run at a 720p resolution which your display will overscan to fill the screen.

Perhaps if you posted the model number it would help.

[Humanzee]

I would try hooking up your TV to the VGA monitor input. There is a chance that the monitor will be correctly detected by the operating system and then the display settings will present you with available screen resolutions that should work with your display. 1024x768 may work but it is not a resolution that properly fits a widescreen display. Once you figure out the best resolution, then try switching back to Component and opt for which ever looks the best to you.

Also, if your plasma has a settings reset feature you might hit it each time you change the settings on the ATI. Sometime the tv will not configure it self correctly if you change the settings after it has already configured itself once.

My display has a DVI cable input, lucky for me. I just plugged it into my graphics card and selected 1920x1080 and that was the last time I had to mess with the resolution.

The 16x9 stuff you will find in the detailed set up of Sage has nothing to do with what shape your display is, but rather what shape the media content you are looking at is and what sort of overscan/scaling to do to make it fit your screen. Its all quite confusing, but you'll get it eventually. Look in the Automatic Aspect Ratio Switcher custimization by Neilm. This way with some configuration SD material with black bars can be scaled by SageTV to fill your nice new display.

Oh, and yes, the desktop fills my entire screen.

[mike1961]

I have a Maxent 42" plasma model #MX-42HPM20 and the graphics card is built onto the XC Cube 482 series the graphics card is a ATI Radeon XPRESS 200. The native recommended resolution for the plasma TV is 1024x768. The XC Cube comes with a VGA as well as a cable from the built on graphics card to allow for svideo and component video.

I just can't quite seem to fill the TV. If I set to 1024x768 it's way too small (like 25" x 25") and it doesn't matter if I go anywhere from 0 to 100 for the vert and horz size when adjusting the picture.

If I set to 1280x768 that's much better because it covers almost all of the screen. But the vertical overflows and even when I adjust the picture size it won't all fit. If I set to a nonnative resolution like the 115? x 65? (can't recall exactly) it fills all but 2 inches on each side of the hoz. I think 720x480 might work but then I can't see a lot of screens in windows because they are too big for the TV monitor.

Please help - this is frustrating.

Thanks,
Mike

[Humanzee]

I think there is some software called powerstrip that lets you define custom resolutions easily. Not sure, never used it. Anyway, when ever you run into a resolution that will fill the screen, Sage should have no problem scaling your video. There will always be cases where the video format doesn't completely fill your screen but you should be able to get the desktop to fill it eventually. That being said every TV / graphics card combo behaves differently. My old TV worked for sage but was useless for the desktop. I had to cofigure a bunch in overscan settings to get the sage interface to fit nicely onto the TV.

That's the problem with TV's vs. Monitors, and the reason I bought what is essentially a giant computer monitor. Good luck.

[mike1961]

I hooked up a VGA cable to test compared to the 3 component cables Red Green Blue cables I have now. VGA is WAY more clear than component. No comparison. The characters in windows are far far more clear. I'm not sure about TV but I would assume it could be since the windows desktop is very readable now where with component it was not nearly as clear.

Edited: not sure if it's the TV (CORRECTION from prior edited post: Both are 720P). However, I still don't know why but my Sage TV on all my computers continues to lag in quality. I am currently using Sage decoders along with Overlay (not VMR but not sure of the difference between overlay and VMR). I tried the NVidia decoders but I always get exception errors with them. Any ideas for a nice clear sharp crisp picture in Sage?

As always - thanks for the support.

Mike

[aperry]

The main reason I suggested VGA is because, without significant tweaking, most people have to tinker a lot to get it looking really good. And I actually gave up a bit, got something that looked pretty good, and stopped. I have a DVI connection, with a DVI to component adapter, and the component wires going to the TV.

With VGA, you are hooking up your TV just like a computer monitor would be. I would think that would be the "cleanest" way of hooking up to a computer.

[mike1961]

As always - one solutions leads to more questions:

1. I read that with Plasma TV's you want to watch everything in widescreen or you can have an "image burn in" effect even if the borders are black. Is this true (even with black borders)? Is this overexaggerated (I called the technicians and also read this in the tv plasma manual to verify this about plasma tvs). That can present a problem since everything is going to looked "stretched" along the horizontal. Is there anything that can be done besides returning the plasma TV for an LCD or projection?

2. Still working to try and get a nice clean crisp picture. The Guide, Sage display and all windows icons are super clear now but watching Live TV from Sage still leaves something to be desired. DVD's are clear (even when converted to mp4 and watching with Nero) but not Sage TV shows.

Thanks for all suggestions,
Mike

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mike1961

As always - one solutions leads to more questions:

1. I read that with Plasma TV's you want to watch everything in widescreen or you can have an "image burn in" effect even if the borders are black. Is this true (even with black borders)?

Yes, since it uses phosphors, if you leave a static image on the screen long enough you can wear the phosphors unevenly (ie burn in).

Is this overexaggerated (I called the technicians and also read this in the tv plasma manual to verify this about plasma tvs).

Yes, if you take a few simple steps:
1) Properly calibrate the display - ie get it out of "torch" mode
2) Avoid leaving static images on the screen

You'll probably be fine.

That can present a problem since everything is going to looked "stretched" along the horizontal. Is there anything that can be done besides returning the plasma TV for an LCD or projection?

You can enable Video Orbiting, which moves the video around the screen, which would minimize any risk of burn in.

2. Still working to try and get a nice clean crisp picture. The Guide, Sage display and all windows icons are super clear now but watching Live TV from Sage still leaves something to be desired. DVD's are clear (even when converted to mp4 and watching with Nero) but not Sage TV shows.

Well, they'll probably never quite match DVDs, but if you can get the deinterlacing setup well (ie DXVA, it's in the decoder setup), or if you've got Dscaler deinterlacing enabled, try TomsMoComp. Also calibrating your capture card settings.

[blade]

Originally Posted by mike1961

2. Still working to try and get a nice clean crisp picture. The Guide, Sage display and all windows icons are super clear now but watching Live TV from Sage still leaves something to be desired. DVD's are clear (even when converted to mp4 and watching with Nero) but not Sage TV shows.

If you're using analog cable make sure your source is good and clean. I never noticed how bad my cable signal was until I got an HDTV. If straight cable to the HDTV looks good then it's probably ok. Of course if you're using sat. then you don't have to worry.

I have a couple of PVR-500's and had to reduce the spatial filter to 2 and the temporal filter to 5.

Also the Sage decoder isn't very good. Using Dscaler is ok, but I think the nvidia decoder looks much better.

[mike1961]

First, I really appreciate this feedback. The one major thing I've been struggling with is video quality. I have some questions re: your posts:

Originally Posted by stanger89

1) Properly calibrate the display - ie get it out of "torch" mode

What do you mean by "torch mode?" Is this brightness and contrast settings? If so, what is recommended. I also did see a picture mode like standard, vivid, user and theatre.

(EDITED: you said "avoid leaving static images on the display" but the black bars on the side would be static so if I set the video orbit on what number of minutes would you all recommend)?

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well, they'll probably never quite match DVDs, but if you can get the deinterlacing setup well (ie DXVA, it's in the decoder setup), or if you've got Dscaler deinterlacing enabled, try TomsMoComp. Also calibrating your capture card settings.

I'm getting a little lost here. What are the settings I should use? I try playing the mpeg file on Nero Showtime (outside of Sage) and it still does not look really any better than in Sage and this is when I use the Sage decoder. I guess where I'm a little confused is I question whether the NVIDIA decoder is really any better than the Sage decoder if the computer is fast enough to decode. In other words, I have my file server do all the encoding so my workstations don't need to do any of that and only need to decode. Once in a while I can get the NVIDIA to work but usually it just gives me an Exception Error. I'm thinking I have to either call DTV and see if there are some settings I can go through with the STB to fine tune the signal or perhaps some settings with the Hauppauge card but I'm just not sure how to do this part.

Originally Posted by blade

I have a couple of PVR-500's and had to reduce the spatial filter to 2 and the temporal filter to 5.

Blade, that is exactly what I have. Is this done in the Hauppauge Tweaker and if so do you know if when you adjust these settings it will automatically do this for both cards I have in my server (2 WinTV 500 cards) or do I have to do it for each of the four separate tuners? How do I know what to tweak these things to?

Originally Posted by blade

Also the Sage decoder isn't very good. Using Dscaler is ok, but I think the nvidia decoder looks much better.

Blade - I keep hearing this but as per my reply above, is this the case even when my server does all the encoding and I have a fast processor in the workstation using the Sage decoder? I have the AOpen cube running (on the motherboard) the ATI Radeon XPRESS 200. I have an AMD3200 processor in the workstation and all it needs to do is decode while the server does the encode. So I was just wondering if speed is not an issue, is the NVIDIA still superior to Sage? If so, then I'm stuck because I can't seem to get the NVIDIA to work as it always gives Exception Errors. Can it work with the ATI at all? I've tried VMR9 and Overlay and NVIDIA fails. It's been horrible for me to get it to work on any of my computers. The ATI on my AOpen client does come with Cyberlink decoders (not sure how good they are).

Thanks again for any help you can provide,
Mike

[mike1961]

I found the Hauppauge Tweaker and how to set it for each tuner but there are so many settings I would not know what to tweak. How in the world can I find the best combination? Also, out of curiousity, do you like to capture 3.2gb/hour or what quality do you use? I would think I should be able to get better quality than my Tivo because my Tivo captures at a resolution of 352x480 with 2600kbps. But, at present, Sage TV does not quite look as good as Tivo. So, I'm hoping I can figure out what to tweak it to. I can't find any documentation on the hauppauge tweaker. I would like the best possible settings if I have Satellite DirecTV cable boxes (standard, no HDTV).

One last thing - does anyone know if it's possible to record HDTV yet (are there any tuner cards out there)? I doubt there are any dual tuner cards but if they will record I may want to get one.

Thanks again,
Mike

[blade]

Originally Posted by mike1961

What do you mean by "torch mode?" Is this brightness and contrast settings? If so, what is recommended. I also did see a picture mode like standard, vivid, user and theatre.

Most (if not all) TVs come from the factory with brightness and contrast cranked up way too high. I've heard a lot about calibration DVDs such as DVE.

I'm not that picky about having mine setup perfect so I just downloaded a couple of jpg test patterns and got mine as close as I could using them. You'll also want to use FFDshow and Filtergraph to calibrate your capture cards. I think the wiki has a guide that walks you through everything step by step.

I guess where I'm a little confused is I question whether the NVIDIA decoder is really any better than the Sage decoder if the computer is fast enough to decode. In other words, I have my file server do all the encoding so my workstations don't need to do any of that and only need to decode.

A faster computer has nothing to do with better deinterlacing. My XP-3200 uses around 10-20% of the CPU during playback. The Nvidia decoder is much better than the SageTV decoder. These aren't the same frame but every frame has the same differences and they're close enough to show the difference between the Sage decoder and the Nvidia decoder. The difference is much more noticable with the actual video. Still frames just don't show all that much. With the Nvidia decoder you'll have a lot less jaggies during playback.

Those captures aren't very good because that station is always a little fuzzy for me and it's from analog cable. You should be able to get much better captures and playback than those examples. Here is a little better quality capture played back with the Nvidia decoder. You should easily get that good or better because you're using a better source than I am.

Blade, that is exactly what I have. Is this done in the Hauppauge Tweaker and if so do you know if when you adjust these settings it will automatically do this for both cards I have in my server (2 WinTV 500 cards) or do I have to do it for each of the four separate tuners? How do I know what to tweak these things to?

I had to go into the encoder settings and adjust them for each tuner. The overall settings on the advance tab didn't work for me. It's just trial and error. If the temporal setting is too high you get some motion blurring, too low and playback loses some smoothness and can appear jerky.

If so, then I'm stuck because I can't seem to get the NVIDIA to work as it always gives Exception Errors. Can it work with the ATI at all? I've tried VMR9 and Overlay and NVIDIA fails. It's been horrible for me to get it to work on any of my computers. The ATI on my AOpen client does come with Cyberlink decoders (not sure how good they are).

Yes, it will work with ATI cards. Definetly try to get it working with overlay first because it can be buggy with VMR9. Some people swear by the cyberlink decoders. I didn't think they were all that great, but some people love them. It wouldn't hurt to give them a try.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by blade

I'm not that picky about having mine setup perfect so I just downloaded a couple of jpg test patterns and got mine as close as I could using them. You'll also want to use FFDshow and Filtergraph to calibrate your capture cards. I think the wiki has a guide that walks you through everything step by step.

There's a free DVD a user on AVS authored for setting brightness and contrast. I think it's in the Calibration Sticky in the HTPC forum.

As for the guide:
http://www.sage-community.org/index....ki/Calibration

Originally Posted by mike1961

What do you mean by "torch mode?" Is this brightness and contrast settings? If so, what is recommended. I also did see a picture mode like standard, vivid, user and theatre.

As blade said, it's just a term used to describe the default calibration of most sets. MFGs usually have them set to look "bright" as "brighter" TVs generally look better in a showroom and sell better, but once you get home you realize those settings just aren't good.

(EDITED: you said "avoid leaving static images on the display" but the black bars on the side would be static so if I set the video orbit on what number of minutes would you all recommend)?

It's really just important to have it moving, pick something that's not too long (like not hours) but not too short as to be distracting. I think I had it set to 15 minutes on our CRT. If you looked hard you could see it move but it wasn't really distracting.