Fine tuning channel frequencies.

[blade]

I've read most of the threads regarding the topic and am about to start the tedious task of trial and error fine tuning. I tried contacting comcast for a list of frequencies, but was told they didn't give out that information. It probably wouldn't be all that accurate anyway.

My understanding is that wintv uses it's own table with fine tuned frequencies where as Sage uses the default windows tables. Is there a way to view the frequencies used by wintv or is there another software program that could get the frequencies so that trial and error isn't involved?

[nielm]

Freqcopy:
http://www.prize.nl/software/freqcopy/
(no idea whether it works )

[mike1961]

Blade - it's not trial and error. See my post on the "fuzzy channels" and use the Freq Fixer. Frankly, I think you are much better off just using an STB but you can use the Freq Fixer. I did it a while back and the offset is the same for all the channels (I believe from 23-99). I wrote a simple program to offset them all so that I would not have to type them in but eventually I wound up building my own serial cables to tune any channel on any of my 4 STB's.

Mike

[blade]

Originally Posted by nielm

Freqcopy:
http://www.prize.nl/software/freqcopy/
(no idea whether it works )

Thanks, I'll give that a try. I just have to get wintv working. I've never installed it before and I keep getting error messages.

Originally Posted by mike1961

Blade - it's not trial and error. See my post on the "fuzzy channels" and use the Freq Fixer. Frankly, I think you are much better off just using an STB but you can use the Freq Fixer. I did it a while back and the offset is the same for all the channels (I believe from 23-99). I wrote a simple program to offset them all so that I would not have to type them in but eventually I wound up building my own serial cables to tune any channel on any of my 4 STB's.

I already have FreqFixer and have toyed around with my worst channel and it looks a lot better now. When trying to tune in the first channel do you not have to use trial and error to dial in the proper frequency? Also from my understanding cable companies sometimes intentionally shift the frequency to reduce interference. So if they were trying to reduce interference between say channels 6 and 7 why would they shift both of them by the same number of mhz? Wouldn't they shift one a little farther than the other so that the frequencies aren't so close together? I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to learn a little more about this stuff.

Using STBs is out of the question. I'm not renting or buying 4 STBs, I pay them enough as it is. Having to setup Sage to change the channels on them is just one more thing that could go wrong. The simplier I keep my setup the better IMO.

[mike1961]

Before I cancelled my cable service due to lack of support, I know for a fact that they shifted the channels an equal amount. I think it was to have a frequency for the analog channels and a frequency for the same channel in digital but I'm not positive. Either way, I know they were shifted off an equal amount and I think Sage does not check a range far enough to tune them in which is why they would come in fuzzy. But, once one is tuned, all would automatically be able to be tuned through Sage so you still have to plug in the correct frequency for each channel 23-99 with Freq Fixer or write a program as I did to just automatically create the file to load. Frankly, it's easier to just get an STB.

Mike.

[blade]

After more testing, I can say for certain that the channels on my cable are not all shifted the same amount. My worst channel needed adjusting by .75 mhz. If I shift the 3 other fuzzy channels that much they become unwatchable. It looks like .5 mhz is needed for them. The rest don't seem to need adjusting.

I never could get wintv to work. I keep getting errors about missing .dll files. I hate to tinker with my setup since it's so stable with Sage, but all the talk about how clear wintv is due to its better tuning has me curious if I could improve the PQ in Sage or not.

Like I said before I'm not going to pay an extra $20 a month for STBs that I don't need. If I were going to do that I'd just get dish or directv. I like the simplicity of cable. I can use it on any tv in my home and my sage server without having to connect a half dozen STBs and pay additional fees.

[mike1961]

Originally Posted by blade

When trying to tune in the first channel do you not have to use trial and error to dial in the proper frequency?.

There is a little trial and error but it did not take too long.

Originally Posted by blade

Also from my understanding cable companies sometimes intentionally shift the frequency to reduce interference. .So if they were trying to reduce interference between say channels 6 and 7 why would they shift both of them by the same number of mhz?

I don't know about that. All I can tell you is my prior cable co (Adelphia) shifted them all up an the same amount. I think it was to accomodate for digital frequencies.

Originally Posted by blade

Using STBs is out of the question. I'm not renting or buying 4 STBs, I pay them enough as it is. .

Yea, but you miss out on all the extended channels which are usually included and the STB's are only $5 / month. Best part of all is that if you set up a Sage Server then all the TV's in the house can share the same box. For example, if you are watching channel 7 in the family room and someone else is watching it in the bedroom then only one tuner / STB is used.

Originally Posted by blade

Having to setup Sage to change the channels on them is just one more thing that could go wrong. The simplier I keep my setup the better IMO.

Actually, it's really not so hard and works flawlessly once it is set up but I would not recommend IR. I have four boxes in one room and it works great. Now - quality is another issue. That's a Sage thing I'm still working on. I'm trying to get the best decoders to work right but I'll save that for another thread.

Mike

[mike1961]

Originally Posted by blade

After more testing, I can say for certain that the channels on my cable are not all shifted the same amount. My worst channel needed adjusting by .75 mhz. If I shift the 3 other fuzzy channels that much they become unwatchable. It looks like .5 mhz is needed for them. The rest don't seem to need adjusting..

Try .5 on all of them. I can say this though and it's a real "gotcha." I noticed that once you tuned one channel in Sage with Freq Fixer, I did not need to even use Freq Fixer on any of the other channels. It's like it "sparked" something in Sage to use a wider tuning range for all the other channels. However, there would be no way to know which channel I would go to first. So, you have to quit Sage before testing another channel. Once I got it right, I found I could offshift all my stations an equal amount. Then all I had to do was write a simple program to do it for some 70 channels and load it in Freq Fixer. Later, I wanted the upper channels so I just got some STB's so all that is history now. But, I still have the program so I can offset your channels for you and send you a PM if you don't want to enter all that.

Originally Posted by blade

I never could get wintv to work. I keep getting errors about missing .dll files. I hate to tinker with my setup since it's so stable with Sage, but all the talk about how clear wintv is due to its better tuning has me curious if I could improve the PQ in Sage or not.

Try getting the latest drivers. Something doesn't sound right.

Originally Posted by blade

Like I said before I'm not going to pay an extra $20 a month for STBs that I don't need. If I were going to do that I'd just get dish or directv. I like the simplicity of cable. I can use it on any tv in my home and my sage server without having to connect a half dozen STBs and pay additional fees.

I thought the exact same way as you only because I didn't want the hassle of telling Sage to change my STB. Then I switced to DTV and a regular box is I think $5 a month (Hi Def is around 10 for the first box then I think 5 for each additional). Believe me, in the long run it's a better way to go. Also, SVideo or composite should give better quality than coax. Also, DTV has way more digital stations (possibly all digital).

What I did was get DTV and kept cable for an extra month so I had overlap. But, I had all the STB's in one room where my computer is and played around with it until I got it working on my computer then started getting them to work on the other TV's in the house (now if I could just get NVidia decoders to work, I may get much better quality). There's always another thing one can do with this hobby. I have a set up with mpeg 4 files, arcade games, Nielms add ons...etc...fun hobby.

Mike

[blade]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Try .5 on all of them.

As I said before, when I use .5 mhz on my worst channel it's still very fuzzy.

Try getting the latest drivers. Something doesn't sound right.

After reading up on SHS's site it seems to be a pretty common problem that can be caused by a lot of different things. Even having Zone Alarm installed can cause it. So I'll have to give it another go when I can find the time.

Then I switced to DTV and a regular box is I think $5 a month (Hi Def is around 10 for the first box then I think 5 for each additional). Believe me, in the long run it's a better way to go.

I need 4 tuners for my Sage setup. I have a lot of programs that come on at the same time so there is no way I could get by with less. So that's $20 a month extra right there and my cable company charges $15 a month more for internet service if you're not a cable subscriber. So switching to satellite would cost me an extra $35/ per month.

I have 2 tvs that aren't connected to Sage. I'd need at the very least a couple of MVPs and licenses for another $260 or so.

I've considered switching before because of the better PQ I would get from satellite, but the benefits don't outweigh the cost for me. I've looked at the packages before and there is nothing extra I'd get on satellite that I'd really watch.

[blade]

I finally got Wintv to work and tried Freqcopy. It may be my imagination, but the channels look better now. I'll have to use it for awhile to really tell if there is an improvement or not. Sometimes my signal is better than others so the improvement might just be due to a good day.

Wintv did manage to tune in 2 channels that Sage has never been able to tune before. Unfortunately I don't know how to add them to Sage. I'm afraid if I scan for new channels in Sage it's going to overwrite the changes that Freqcopy made so I'm a little hesitant to mess with it.

[mike1961]

Blade - a few things: First, remember that you have to experiment with just ONE CHANNEL ONLY. Find the low point and the high point where the frequency comes in clear. I found for me it was either clear or fuzzy and nothing really in between. Sage also has a Auto-Tuning property and I can't remember if you are supposed to disable or enable it when trying this so try it both ways. Once you find the high and low point just average it. But, you must QUIT out of Sage each time you run the test and change the registry entry with Freq Fixer. Once you find it, then try it for other channels but again, you have to exit every time you tune any channel.

Regarding: your post: "my cable company charges $15 a month more for internet service if you're not a cable subscriber."
Yea - I know, mine does something like that too and it does not fly with me at all because you can easily check with your phone company for DSL in your area or other providers of DSL. I think they may be around half what my cable company charges so that is the next thing I will be checking into.

Thanks,
Mike

[blade]

Regarding: your post: "my cable company charges $15 a month more for internet service if you're not a cable subscriber."
Yea - I know, mine does something like that too and it does not fly with me at all because you can easily check with your phone company for DSL in your area or other providers of DSL. I think they may be around half what my cable company charges so that is the next thing I will be checking into.

I've already checked on DSL and I can't get it where I live. I'm around 600 feet too far away. I doubt I'd be happy with it anyway. We had it at work (which is about 2 miles down the road) and honestly my dialup was almost as fast as their DSL. I know DSL is good in some areas, but around here it's garbage. The phone system just isn't up to par. I've never known anyone around here that was happy with their DSL. Even if the DSL does work properly the cable connection is still 3 times faster here.

I've even considered keeping the basic cable package (the handfull of local stations) for $9.95 a month, which would be cheaper than do away with cable all together. Believe me, I've checked into every possible combination and there is no way around a higher bill and to me it's just not worth it.