Very poor video playback quality

[dshields]

I just set up a SageTV Windows Client. I've been using 2 MediaMVP clients and I'm happy with the playback quality. But on my Windows Client the playback quality is terrible. I'm not sure what to change...

Here is my config:
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 285 video card driving 2 HP L2335 23" monitors via DVI
1920 x 1200 resolution on each monitor
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
CORSAIR XMS 2GB RAM
ASUS A8N5X motherboard

After installing the SageTV client and noticing the poor video quality, I installed the NVidia DVD Decoder that came with my pcalchemy bundle. Is this the same as the "PureVideo" decoder mentioned here? (I have the DVD-Bronze product CD). After doing that I went into Setup and selected "NVIDIA Video Decoder" under the MPEG2 Video Decoder menu.

This didn't make any difference. Did I install the wrong decoder? Do I need to change setup somewhere else?

Is there a problem with my hardware? I would have expected that this hardware would give better quality than watching the video on a regular TV, but it doesn't. BTW, these HP monitors are HD capable, so I'm told. They are supposed to be the same as the HP 23" HDTV.

What am I missing? Will it be possible to surpass the playback quality of a regular (cheap) TV? I'm so far from that now, I wonder if I can even match it.

[dshields]

Originally Posted by dshields

I just set up a SageTV Windows Client. I've been using 2 MediaMVP clients and I'm happy with the playback quality. But on my Windows Client the playback quality is terrible. I'm not sure what to change...

Anyone have pointers to other threads? Anyone have any suggestions to get me started...? Maybe I'm searching this forum with the wrong terms, but I'm not finding anything relevant. I'm sure others have had some experiences with poor video quality. Thanks.

[roxy99]

You mention HDTV playback but not if your source is HDTV. If you are streaming to a media extender, you do realize that the signal from S-Video is by definition only SDTV?

By horible, do you mean not HDTV-like? Remember if your input source is SDTV you will still get SDTV ish quality even with scaling to 1080p type resutions.

Which brings up another point: 1920 x 1200 is not a typical HDTV setting. Try a setting with 1080 or 720 and see what happens.

What M-peg decoder software do you have installed? If you selected PureVideo, then try in SageTV just selecting Default mpeg2 decoder because that will normally select the best decoder on your system.

You have a pretty kick-ass system, so I am possitive with a little tinkering and patience you should get a very decent playback.

Also 'Horrible playback' is subjective- depends on your expectations. My system is much weaker than yours and I consider my DVI playback output to my 46" RPTV at 720p resolution to be only slighlty better than SDTV. I can live with that since afterall, my source is only SDTV.

[dshields]

Originally Posted by roxy99

You mention HDTV playback but not if your source is HDTV. If you are streaming to a media extender, you do realize that the signal from S-Video is by definition only SDTV?

By horible, do you mean not HDTV-like? Remember if your input source is SDTV you will still get SDTV ish quality even with scaling to 1080p type resutions.

Which brings up another point: 1920 x 1200 is not a typical HDTV setting. Try a setting with 1080 or 720 and see what happens.

What M-peg decoder software do you have installed? If you selected PureVideo, then try in SageTV just selecting Default mpeg2 decoder because that will normally select the best decoder on your system.

You have a pretty kick-ass system, so I am possitive with a little tinkering and patience you should get a very decent playback.

Also 'Horrible playback' is subjective- depends on your expectations.

Thanks for the feedback and the encouragement. However, I am not talking about HD at all. I'm just trying to get decent standard TV quality playback. And when I say "horrible playback" I'm talking really horrible - because I cannot even achieve quality that is equal to my $350 std TV (with a MediaMVP client).

What's confusing to me is that this "kick ass system" with really nice monitors has quality that is much worse than a $99 MVP and a $350 TV. And both are playing video from the same SageTV server over the same network, etc.

[dshields]

Originally Posted by roxy99

Which brings up another point: 1920 x 1200 is not a typical HDTV setting. Try a setting with 1080 or 720 and see what happens.
.

FWIW, playing the video files in Windows Media Player gives the same poor quality. (Again, far worse than a std low quality TV.)

It is very grainy, lots of pixelation, blurry text, flickering, etc. It reminds me of watching bad streaming video on low bandwidth.

I tried changing monitor resolutions. It didn't seem to make a difference, but I don't have any resolution choices with 1080 or 720. I have the regular choices like 1024 x 768. But again, I'm not playing HD content - I just want to match the quality of my std TV on this Windows SageTV client. Thanks.

[roxy99]

Originally Posted by dshields

FWIW, playing the video files in Windows Media Player gives the same poor quality. (Again, far worse than a std low quality TV.)

Ah now we're getting somewhere. Definately something on the Mpeg2 codec is screwed up for you. For now, uninstall Purevideo and any other DVD software. Download from Microsoft Video decode checkup at:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

Take it one step at a time and see whats avaible as an mepg2 decoder by running the utility. Then re-install Purevideo and try an mpeg 2 file. Get media player running properly with a goog mpeg decoder.

In sage, select 'default' mpeg2 decoder and give it whirl.

[dshields]

Thanks roxy99. Those are the kind of troubleshooting tips I need.

You are right that something basic is screwed up. After going thru your steps, I re-installed the NVidia decoder, used the utility you linked to set it as the default for Media Player, and now Media Player will not even play anything at all.

The first thing I see is "error downloading codec" in the bottom status bar of Media Player. Then in the "Now playing list" I drill down to get the error details, and I see this:

Windows Media Player cannot play the file because a required codec is not installed on your computer.

I tried using the utility to revert to defaults, but the same errors still occur.

I'm looking forward to any suggested next trouble shooting steps. Thanks.

[roxy99]

Thats normal because there is no mpeg2 code now. Now re-install the Nvidia DVD software and try media player. Then run the Video checkup utility again. You should see Nvidia listed. Click : set as preferred.
Run media player and see if its any clear now.

[dshields]

I'm usually pretty good at installing software (I'm a developer), but things aren't going well here...

After carefully uninstalling and reinstalling several times, Windows Media Player still fails to work, exactly as described above.

I did learn how to get the latest version of the NVidia PureVideo product for those of us who purchased it as part of a bundle:

to upgrade PureVideo:
Do not uninstall first.
go here: http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp
select Multimedia software --> NVidia PureVideo Decoder --> update kit for OEM bundles
download & run (entering your activation key again is not required)

As for me, I'm still stuck with Win Media Player not working, even after carefully going thru all steps, rebooting, etc.

[dshields]

I ran dxdiag and it reports no problems. I checked Video Codecs in Device Manager and it lists 7 Video Compression Codecs and says all are functioning properly. They have names like msvidc32.dll.

Windows Media Player still won't work. I get the same 2 errors mentioned above. In addtion, I should add that I have to manually kill the process in order to get Media Player to shut down. This has been happening since right after I started this process of changing the codec.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by dshields

I ran dxdiag and it reports no problems. I checked Video Codecs in Device Manager and it lists 7 Video Compression Codecs and says all are functioning properly. They have names like msvidc32.dll.

Windows Media Player still won't work. I get the same 2 errors mentioned above. In addtion, I should add that I have to manually kill the process in order to get Media Player to shut down. This has been happening since right after I started this process of changing the codec.

You have something fundamentally wrong with your system. Instead of asking you what you did or didn't install or have or have not done follow this guide from the Zoom Player site,

A Clean Start:
If your system is completely screwed up and you're thinking of reinstalling the operating system from scratch to fix your media playback problems, here is a way to clean start your system prior to taking drastic measures such as a complete reinstall of the operating system. Please make sure to read all the instructions carefully and don't skip any steps. This process may break certain video-editing software and web cameras from operating. Re-Installing their software/drivers should fix any issue.

Here are the series of actions you will need to take in order to reset your media playback settings to their default values (As they should be after a fresh windows install).



You will first need to obtain Zoom Player v3.10 or newer.
1. Run Zoom Player and open the "Options / Filter Control / Management" tab and click on the "Registered Filter Manager" button.
2. Select all the filters in the list (highlight the first filter, hold shift and press the End button on the keyboard).
3. Press on the "Unregister Filters" Button.
4. Close Zoom Player.
5. You will now need to re-register the filters that come with the system on a fresh install. To do this, run this batch file Download and Run(you will need to extract the ZIP archive first).
6. To restore DVD Playback capabilities without reinstalling the DVD Player, you may also need to register the DVD Filters that came with your player. You should be able to do that using Zoom Player's Customized DVD Playback interface by selecting the decoders you use and pressing the "Register" button.
Now go back to the start of this article and configure media playback accordingly.
Final Words:
Make sure you have either the "Overlay Mixer" or "Video Mixer Renderer 9" enabled without it under Windows XP, the VMR7 renderer is used and can conflict with certain media playback (makes it choppy or desynced). Don't be tempted for the quick fix, installing codec packs can cause multiple negative issues, so make sure you know what gets installed.

There is a filter called "mmswitch". This filter is used to provide old media players with the ability to play AVI files with multiple audio tracks. It is not required when Zoom Player is used and can actually cause instability and other odd behavior. Make sure you unregister it (easily done on the Filter Control options dialog).


If you have any other questions, refer them to the Zoom Player section of the forum.

Limit your codec installations. Unless you're playing Divx, Quicktime or other formats all you should really need to use is the nVidia Purevideo decoders. Try this to at least get to a good base and your videos should have excellent quality in Windows Media Player and Sage. The above will NOT remove the files from your PC that other codecs may have installed. It will just unregister them so Windows won't know they are there and won't use them. Including your nVideo decoders so you'll have to install those again after following the above procedure.

Gerry

[dshields]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You have something fundamentally wrong with your system.
Gerry

Hehe. You got that right...

Fortunately, I have things basically working again. I have a very clean setup now that performs the basic functions once again. There isn't any junk on my system, so this should be a good foundation. Thanks for all the help.

Unfortunately, I can't report much improvement in my video quality. It is better, but now I think there are problems in other areas (maybe recording quality, not just playback...?). Quite frankly, I don't know enough to say. But now that I can play videos again, I'm going to investigate and come back to the forum with some details.

SageTV has an awesome community. That alone is a big reason to use SageTV. I would have given up on SageTV after the first couple days if not for this forum.

[kltye]

This is a shot in the dark, but are your MVP clients driving CRT SD TVs? I know for sure that the low definition on CRT SDTVs "mask" the poor quality of analog signals being recompressed into MPEG2. What I'm saying is that since your 23" displays are presumably very sharp, you're seeing all the usual MPEG2 artifacts we normally would not see on a CRT TV.

[dshields]

Originally Posted by kltye

This is a shot in the dark, but are your MVP clients driving CRT SD TVs? I know for sure that the low definition on CRT SDTVs "mask" the poor quality of analog signals being recompressed into MPEG2. What I'm saying is that since your 23" displays are presumably very sharp, you're seeing all the usual MPEG2 artifacts we normally would not see on a CRT TV.

I think you are right. This is at least part of my problem. (I'm going to post my other problems in other threads.)

Is there some kind of "test" video I could download? I would like something that has a known recording quality (so I can rule out any issues with the recording side of my setup). This "test" video should hopefully make it obvious to me (a non-expert) how well my playback quality stacks up. Is there anything like this? Thanks.

[roxy99]

Originally Posted by kltye

This is a shot in the dark, but are your MVP clients driving CRT SD TVs? I know for sure that the low definition on CRT SDTVs "mask" the poor quality of analog signals being recompressed into MPEG2. What I'm saying is that since your 23" displays are presumably very sharp, you're seeing all the usual MPEG2 artifacts we normally would not see on a CRT TV.

I would'nt say 'mask' rather I would say that the defects are less magnified on a 23" screen.
In other words I was implying earlier SDTV is best viewed on a non-hdtv CRT. Ever notice how sharp a DVD looks on a 32" CRT vs a 56inch HDTV RPTV? BTW, just because a TV is small doesn't necessarily imply a poor quality display.

Another area regarding poor alalog signals is cable quality. Your typical $5 S-Video cable is not going to cut it. First of all, there is the Analog-to-Digital that takes place between your STB and Sage PC. The capture card keeps the signal digital and sends the digital mpeg2 stream to the MVP. The MVP then converts the digital mpeg2 back to analog. That's 2 generational quality losses. Now, output that to any high quality analog monitor (even a small hiquality screen) and there is bound to be noise. Analog noise is not the same a digital artifacts.

Sometimes I think HDTV was invented only to create a market for big screen TV's. The fact is SDTV is just as clear on a 32" CRT as HDTV is on a 60" screen provided that the non-HD monitor is of high quality and the cables are properly shielded and not too long.

[roxy99]

Originally Posted by dshields

I think you are right. This is at least part of my problem. (I'm going to post my other problems in other threads.)

Is there some kind of "test" video I could download? I would like something that has a known recording quality (so I can rule out any issues with the recording side of my setup). This "test" video should hopefully make it obvious to me (a non-expert) how well my playback quality stacks up. Is there anything like this? Thanks.

Why don't you simply play a DVD on your system? If the DVD is equally poor quality, then you can rule out the capture recording. Probably then there is an mpeg codec problem.

[dshields]

Originally Posted by roxy99

Why don't you simply play a DVD on your system? If the DVD is equally poor quality, then you can rule out the capture recording. Probably then there is an mpeg codec problem.

I'm almost ready to throw everything out the window. I had the same idea as you, so I stuck a DVD into my HTPC (for the first time) and found a whole new set of SageTV problems for myself.

Bottom line I cannot get DVDs to play no matter what I try. I have even used 3rd party software to rip them to the HDD and SageTV will still not play a DVD.

[dshields]

Looks like things are fixed... I hope. I can play DVDs now and the quality looks good. I'll know in a day or two whether everything is working as it should.

I did a complete reinstall, including deleting the program files folder. That is what it took to get things working again.

I have to say that when I upgraded from v4 to v5.0.2, I followed the upgrade guide referred to in this forum, and I did the 3rd option (back up everthing, reboot, etc.). So I'm surprised the upgrade created so many problems.

The list of problems was so long I was about to give up on SageTV. Just search for my name on this forum and you'll see lots of problems, and I only posted about 5% of what was happening here!

I also have to say that installing SageTV is a very frustrating experience, particularly because setup will not complete if the SageTV service is running. How do non-technical folks survive setting up SageTV???

I'm pretty upset about all the time this upgrade to 5.0.2 has cost me. Next time it breaks, I should just swear off TV completely. My head will thank me

[mike1961]

So you say everything got fixed by doing a complete reinstall. Well, perhaps I should try the same thing because my DVD stopped working within Sage also when I installed the V5 upgrade. It's no easy task doing a complete reinstall because I have all kinds of custom settings. Anyway, here goes...

Thanks,
Mike

[dshields]

Originally Posted by mike1961

It's no easy task doing a complete reinstall because I have all kinds of custom settings. Anyway, here goes...
Mike

You are right about it not being easy. The bugs in SageTV don't help either. The worst one for me has been that Video Setup doesn't work unless the SageTV service is stopped and disabled.

Good luck!