Switching to UNC Paths

[mayamaniac]

I've been using SageTV for almost 2 years now and just now switched to UNC paths. I was using local paths before. Everything works fine, SageTV seemed to accept the UNC paths and I can playback all files.

Anyway, I noticed that even though I modified all my recording folders to UNC paths, the View Recording Details screen on previously recorded shows still point to the local paths, not the new UNC paths. Only newly recorded shows after the UNC path switch display the correct UNC Path in View Recording Details. Consequently, comskip info can't be read by SageTV Client over the network without mapping the letter drives.

So my question is ... is this normal? Is there a way to update all previously recorded shows to the new UNC path locations? I was expecting SageTV to do it automatically.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

I've been using SageTV for almost 2 years now and just now switched to UNC paths. I was using local paths before. Everything works fine, SageTV seemed to accept the UNC paths and I can playback all files.

Anyway, I noticed that even though I modified all my recording folders to UNC paths, the View Recording Details screen on previously recorded shows still point to the local paths, not the new UNC paths. Only newly recorded shows after the UNC path switch display the correct UNC Path in View Recording Details. Consequently, comskip info can't be read by SageTV Client over the network without mapping the letter drives.

So my question is ... is this normal? Is there a way to update all previously recorded shows to the new UNC path locations? I was expecting SageTV to do it automatically.

I - think - if you were to rename the directory's on your system - with SageTV off and the service stopped - it would then see that you have your recordings in a new location. Just as if you moved them to a new computer. I would suggest however that you backup your Wiz.Bin file before this operation so that you can get back to the way you have it now without loosing any info - if it doesn't work.

BobP.

[mayamaniac]

What do you meaning by renaming the directories? Do you mean editing the sage.properties file while SageTV is off?

[lovingHDTV]

Here is an example:

currently you have defined in SageTV a path to record to as:

z:/sageTV

Now you want to change that to the unc path:

\\storage\sageTV

To get Sage to change the internal paths, it has to see that a recording, say show1, has moved from z:\sageTV to \\storage\sageTV.

There are lots of ways to do this.

One way is to create the new directory \\storage\sageTV, add it (while still empty) to SageTV.

Shutdown sageTV/service and app.

move all shows from z:/sageTV to \\storage\sageTV.

Restart SageTV.

When Sage restarts it will see no shows in z:/sageTV, but instead find them in \\storage\sageTV and change all the internal paths to point to them. You are now updated.

Basically you have to have SageTV see the old files in the new directory, while at the same time, having them not reside in the old directory.

hope this helps,

P.S. - backup your wiz.bin just in case

[BobPhoenix]

What lovingHDTV said.

[mayamaniac]

the problem is I'm not moving any shows to a new folder. From your example, my z:/sageTV and \\storage\sageTV is the same location, the same folder. So what you are saying is that I should make a new folder with a different name, such as z:\TVShows, then share that folder on the network, and set \\storage\TVShows as a new folder in SageTV. Then shut down SageTV, and move all the shows from z:\SageTV to z:\TVShows. Run SageTV again, and this time it should see that the shows have been moved. Then I can removed the local paths from SageTV.

Is that correct?

[BobPhoenix]

Sounds like that would work. I have moved SageTV recordings arround before and most of the time I have no problems. I think I may have lost info on about 5% one time and it probably was something I did or an older version (2.1 comes to mind). You might backup both the properties and the Wiz.Bin first so that you could restore your setup however. Also check your number of recordings before this operation and after for a count match and if equal you should be safe. Just make sure that the recordings actually show the new UNC paths after the move.

BobP.

[stevech]

this is another example of how users would benefit if Sage would provide a simple procedure for moving files.

[mayamaniac]

Or at least provide the correct instruction to convert from local paths to UNC paths. I followed this instruction in the FAQ and it wasn't 100% working. I'll have to try the advice above later. Thanks for the help, lovingHDTV and BobPhoenix.

[ToxMox]

What it boils down to is that Sage needs to see the old path as empty before it updates all the references to the new UNC location.

Just for you mayamaniac I risked losing it all just now to test this out
Here is the real world example step by step of how I successfully just did what you are trying to accomplish.

Things to know:
Server name: HTPC
Current recordings dir in Sage: G:\SageRecordings
Want to change G:\SageRecordings to \\HTPC\SageRecG

Step 1: in Windows Explorer create a share for the G:\SageRecordings folder named SageRecG

Step 2: With Sage running go into Detailed Setup and Modify the Video Recording Directories entry for G:\SageRecordings
In the modify screen chose "Specify" and entered without quotes "\\HTPC\SageRecG" and then did "Select Current"

Step 3: Quit Sage and stop the Service

Step 4: In Explorer rename the G:\SageRecordings folder to G:\SageRecordings2 It will notify you that it will remove the share we created earlier. This is fine.

Step 5: Create the SageRecG share again for G:\SageRecordings2

Step 6: Start the service etc.

Step 7: All your shows that were on G:\SageRecordings should now show up as \\HTPC\SageRecG when viewing the detailed info for those shows.

I hope this clears it up somewhat

Just a side note: I had one show on that drive that was archived. It brought it out of the archive and put it in as a regular show again.
Note 2: I guess upon restarting Sage it created an empty G:\SageRecordings folder.

After the move was complete I stopped Sage and the service. Deleted the new empty G:\SageRecordings folder that had been created and renamed my G:\SageRecordings2 to G:\SageRecordings and made the SageRecG share again just so I wouldn't have to reconfigure other things that relied on the drive name versus the UNC because I'm too lazy to change my DirMon settings

[mayamaniac]

Thanks Toxmox for testing it out. I just did as instructed and now the View Recording Detail screen correctly display the proper UNC paths for all recordings. Its an odd way of switching to UNC paths, but at least it works.

[nyplayer]

Before you go switching everything to UNC paths. One major thing to consider if the network goes down the shows being recorded will stop. Nothing will be recorded for the duration of the network being down. I switched back to regular paths after finding this out the hardway.

I dont see the benefits of UNC paths out weighing losing the scheduled recordings. In the event of a router going down.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

Before you go switching everything to UNC paths. One major thing to consider if the network goes down the shows being recorded will stop. Nothing will be recorded for the duration of the network being down. I switched back to regular paths after finding this out the hardway.

I dont see the benefits of UNC paths out weighing losing the scheduled recordings. In the event of a router going down.

I just put my switches and router on UPS's along with my PC's so I don't have that problem.

BobP.

[mayamaniac]

nyplayer, how is your network setup? Because even if my router goes down, it shouldn't affect my sagetv computer from seeing itself even when using UNC paths. It won't see other computers on the network so if you have networked drives for recordings, then SageTV won't be recorded to them, but that affects both mapped drives and UNC paths if the router is down.

Personally, I don't see how my router will ever go down unless the power goes out, in which case my sageTV computer will be down also if there's no power. So it won't be recording anything anyway, UNC paths or not.

[nyplayer]

mayamaniac,

I thought the same thing you thought about being able to see itself... but that is not true. Your server has an Ip address associated with the computer name. Anytime that Sage goes to record to a UNC path it goes to the router first to check the IP.

This can be tested quite easily. You can setup a recording and disconnect from the router you will see the recording will stop. And if you have all UNC paths in sage the space availible goes to zero.

Also you have to make sure that if you are changing anything in your router that requires recycling that your server is not recording anything. This will cause an Interrupt in your recording and it will finish recording in parts.


PS my server is directly wired to my Router.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

nyplayer, how is your network setup? Because even if my router goes down, it shouldn't affect my sagetv computer from seeing itself even when using UNC paths. It won't see other computers on the network so if you have networked drives for recordings, then SageTV won't be recorded to them, but that affects both mapped drives and UNC paths if the router is down.

Personally, I don't see how my router will ever go down unless the power goes out, in which case my sageTV computer will be down also if there's no power. So it won't be recording anything anyway, UNC paths or not.

Actually I think it might because I pulled the plug on my switch and you could see it instantly on the screen. The drive space went to zero and a confict icon showed up that went away as soon as I pluged in the switch again. This was why I started putting my switches on UPS's as well. Another thing I've done to combat this problem is to use a another recording directory and use a mapped drive and then periodically check to make sure the directory is empty. If it isn't I stop SageTV when it is next possible and move the file to the UNC directory and restart SageTV. Maybe there are settings in Windows that would prevent this but I don't know what they are so if someone else does know how to stop what I've described I would like to know what they are.

BobP.

[nyplayer]

BobPhoenix ,

I think you might be onto something. Recording to an alternate directory than move to the UNC path in the event the router fails for Extended amount of time. Do you have such a scenario setup or are you just brainstorming.

BTW I switched my router to my UPS also. Just in case.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

BobPhoenix ,

I think you might be onto something. Recording to an alternate directory than move to the UNC path in the event the router fails for Extended amount of time. Do you have such a scenario setup or are you just brainstorming.

BTW I switched my router to my UPS also. Just in case.

I had it setup that way before a HardDrive crash. It was on my Boot drive and I only allowed 20GB of my 40Gb free as recording space if I remember correctly. That way Sage would only use it as a last resort. But I don't let SageTV manage my Drive usage either. I watch it and if the space is getting too low I either move it to another media server as imported videos or delete what I don't need any longer. If you let Sage completely manage your drive usage and have it delete recordings when it needs to then this emergency storage will be used all the time. This thread reminded me that I still have some things to configure again after the crash - one being this. Which I just got done setting up.

BobP.

[mayamaniac]

This thread is getting interesting regarding how SageTV handles local and UNC paths, at least they not mentioned in details in the documentations.

When I get the chance, I'll yanked my network cable to see what happens, I can't do so at the moment (big downloads in progress). Bobphoenix's idea of doing one local path is pretty good backup plan.

But the only reason you would want to use UNC paths in the first place is if you use an STVi on a Client machine that requires direct paths to the source files, such as comskip STVi. You can map letter drives on the client computer, but you might run into letter drive conflicts if both computers already used up the same letters. I suppose I can change all my server drive letters to something like X, Y, Z, etc. and that would solve the letter conflicts as most computers don't use those letters.

OT: I say we should blame billy boy at MS for this letter drive madness. All other OSes use some sort of device ID and volume\partition number (\dev\disk01s1) They had the chance to fix this with Vista but didn't, shame on you MS.

[nyplayer]

I believe there is another advantage and that is that the Client PC's do not use the Sageserver to access the files when using UNC paths.. this allows the Server to just do recordings and not serve the files.

Instead the Clients access the files directly through the network. This is the main reason why I would use UNC paths.