What do you think of the upgrade policy?

[Naylia]

Overall, I think the upgrade policy is generally fair...being someone who is upgrading from 2.2.8 I feel it's a good deal. However, I do understand the concerns of some of the folks that just made their original purchase in 2006. I'd like to have seen a 1 yr mark in the sand or maybe a v4 and higher (not sure when v4 vs v5 was).

[acrowe]

doh I shouldda picked the last option

personally I think the $30 is just fine. They could have charged full price for everything.

I guess this to me is a hobby. When you have a hobby it costs some money. If you want to keep with the hobby you pay a bit of cash here and there for it.

I think what has happened is that there is a second group of people who this is more of an appliance to them. They just want it to work, and don't necissarily want to keep paying for it. I understand the frustration for people who missed the cutoff by a little bit, but as others have said: if you don't want the new features stay with what you have.

Think of it this way, you could have been paying $12 a month for tivo

[bradsjm]

I'd be happy with a $20/year maintenance fee, I've had Sage since I think version 2 so I'm more than happy with the value for money etc. Especially as I also paid for Meedio TV in that time too and that wasn't really worth it!

[DynamoBen]

Let me start by saying I will likely spend the money for the upgrade; however there is a small sting to it. When I originally purchased the application, I liked the idea that upgrades where free. Call me selfish or cheap but it was a selling point for me. Then the official stance changed to the following:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...3&postcount=16

This was fine and understandable, features that cost money for the company would be passed onto the consumer. Once they released the licenses for MVP and placeshifter I say this change coming. I had hoped their commercial and hardware sales would sustain the company enough to continue to offer the consumer software at no cost.

I understand that the company needs income to continue. I’m also aware that the previous policy was not the industry norm. However, as a long time customer, it is a little shot in the arm to pay ½ the cost of the software as an upgrade periodically.

For me its not entirely about the money. Something to consider is that in the past I’ve been very lacks about expectations when releases had occurred. The features related to the media center portion haven’t always been that comprehensive or competitive. In addition there are Sage “quirks” that I have dealt with for years. In the end I remained patient and didn’t push the issues simply because they didn’t charge for upgrades, I didn’t have room to complain. That isn’t the case anymore, now I have certain expectations for future releases since I’m financially investing in the companies future on a regular basis. By charging an upgrade fee, in my mind, the expectations are much higher. Being happy with excellent TV recording won’t be enough anymore.

I hope that Sage will also be careful about the frequency of major releases. I have seen a number of companies release software so as to generate revenue, ala Microshaft, and not focus on squishing old bugs before moving on. In addition as new releases occur maintenance cannot stop on previous releases. (this was mentioned in this thread) There are going to be a share of people who are not interested in 6.0 or 7.0… Those previous versions will still need to be maintained as problems are found. This promotes good customer relations and could promote a future upgrade.

If Sage stays focused on tight code, limits major releases, continues to maintain previous releases, and becomes competitive feature wise I don’t have an issue with the upgrade fee.

[tmiranda]

1 Sage server, 2 SageClients, 2 MVP licenses: total cost to upgrade = $30. No brainer decision for me.

[Radar]

I think the policy and price is fair, especially when it's just for the server. I'll probably buy the upgrade, since $30 isn't that much and I like Sage and have gotten free upgrades since v2 beta. However, to be honest, other than Placeshifter I don't think I've used a single new feature since v3, and looking at the list for v6 Google Video support is about all I see of interest there.

If I had HD it might be a different story, but I just have lowly non-digital cable with simple needs! I keep looking for something that would "wow" me, but so far that's been just from STV authors (SageMC, comskip, webserver, etc). Those are the guys I'd like to donate to!

[Muchacho]

I am fine paying the $ for the upgrade. However, I feel that they should have fixed known issues in the v5 release in the interim. It has been a while since they have put out an upgrade and I think they could have relatively easily fixed a few known issues before dropping all the eggs in v6.

For example, the MVP has a known A:R problem with mpeg4. It was not present in some of the v5 betas, which leads me to think that a fix would have been extremely easy. My family has come to rely on sageTV and I dont really have the time now to mess around with a beta.

I am happy to spend the $ when the v6 is stable, as it works great and with sageMC looks great!

[garcia21]

^ I agree.
I dont mind paying for the upgrade....as long as its stable. Im just not too crazy about paying for a beta upgrade. Ive never heard of having to pay for a beta anything. BUT....I do understand where they are coming from and I will be paying for the upgrade once its out of beta.

[DynamoBen]

You know now that you mention it that is weird, paying for a beta. I would guess a fair number of current users don't spend time in the beta area. They will lose out on the discount.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by DynamoBen

You know now that you mention it that is weird, paying for a beta. I would guess a fair number of current users don't spend time in the beta area. They will lose out on the discount.

It's Sage's way of encouraging more users to beta test the product so they can produce a better product. The upgrade is $29.95 until Nov. 1 when it becomes $39.95. So basically they're paying you $10 to beta test. And I'm only guessing that they are shooting for a Nov. 1 production version.

Gerry

[JonTom]

Ha, I said yesterday that I don't mind paying $30 for an upgrade, and I don't.

But then this morning I thought about it and realized that I was paying $30 for beta software and got a little cranky. I see others have made the point already for me. And I get the 'paid $10 to beta test' argument too.

But the beta should be free. I'd happily pay $30 for a stable version of v6.

[garcia21]

Originally Posted by gplasky

It's Sage's way of encouraging more users to beta test the product so they can produce a better product. The upgrade is $29.95 until Nov. 1 when it becomes $39.95. So basically they're paying you $10 to beta test. And I'm only guessing that they are shooting for a Nov. 1 production version.

Gerry

I guess thats ONE way of looking at it.

[jptaz]

I say pay $30....then again I bought SageTV in May 2003 at Version 1.3.8 and I have probably purchased over $300 in products from Frey, with the majority beig for software licenses. I will probably buy the upgrade now, but I am on the fence on actually installing the beta...I am on the road too much right now and my wife would kill me if stuff didn't get recorded or worse she could not watch 1 of the 80 recorded british Comedies on the MediaMVP at bed time.

EDIT: it would really annoy me to get home and have missed something too as I never watch Live TV anymore and load up the laptop with recordings to watch on the road.

[Deadbolt]

Absolutely!!! When SageTV support tells us bugs (ex. mvp bursting) are supposed to be fixed in the 'next version' I figure it isn't a big deal with Sage's selling point of "trying their best to provide updates at no fee" initially then later changing that policy to only charging if they incured a new licensing fees (DivX for example). However, now it is a big deal...we are paying for bug fixes...and beta bug fixes no less ???

http://web.archive.org/web/200503090...tml?sageSub=tv

and

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...3&postcount=16

I'm wondering if Dan's statement when they changed their policy to charge for upgrades due to licensing is still true. Is the reason they are charging because of a new licensing fee?

Originally Posted by Muchacho

I am fine paying the $ for the upgrade. However, I feel that they should have fixed known issues in the v5 release in the interim. It has been a while since they have put out an upgrade and I think they could have relatively easily fixed a few known issues before dropping all the eggs in v6.

For example, the MVP has a known A:R problem with mpeg4. It was not present in some of the v5 betas, which leads me to think that a fix would have been extremely easy. My family has come to rely on sageTV and I dont really have the time now to mess around with a beta.

I am happy to spend the $ when the v6 is stable, as it works great and with sageMC looks great!

[GTwannabe]

$30 for a new version isn't too bad... so long as it's really a new version with new features and not just a rebadged point release. v6 is the first major overhaul of Sage since the v2 days... considering v3 was renamed v4 and v5 was just v4 with official Placeshifter support.

I will be upset if in a few months Sage puts out a point release (6.1), renames it v7, and charges me to upgrade from 6.

[willgill]

How many versions and updates does everyone expect to go through for free? As soon as v6 beta came out, I upgraded both servers as fast as I could. $30 a pop? That's cheap for all the years I got by for free. For the ones that think it's too expensive, don't look at the price for Windows Vista.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Deadbolt

Absolutely!!! When SageTV support tells us bugs (ex. mvp bursting) are supposed to be fixed in the 'next version' I figure it isn't a big deal with Sage's selling point of "trying their best to provide updates at no fee" initially then later changing that policy to only charging if they incured a new licensing fees (DivX for example). However, now it is a big deal...we are paying for bug fixes...and beta bug fixes no less ???

http://web.archive.org/web/200503090...tml?sageSub=tv

and

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...3&postcount=16

I'm wondering if Dan's statement when they changed their policy to charge for upgrades due to licensing is still true. Is the reason they are charging because of a new licensing fee?

The first link stated:

We will do our best to provide upgrades at no additional cost to our current customers.

I saw no change in policy in second link you provided:

we reserve the right to charge for an upgrade if it adds functionality that causes us to incur additional licensing fees (i.e. Divx or CDDB). Our goal for the future is to still do our best to provide upgrades at no charge like we are doing for version 2.0.

This does not say licensing fees are the only reason they would charge an upgrade fee. Neither link promised free upgrades and both said they would do their best to provide upgrades at no charge, not that there would never be an upgrade charge.

I don't see where you get your paying for bug fixes when many additional features have been added to v6.

Have you contacted Sage to see if they plan to offer you a solution without having to upgrade to v6? Everyone seems to be assuming that Sage isn't going to provide fixes for v5 problems. They may not, but why not contact them and find out instead of speculating?

[Goodspike]

I don't understand the poll that well, but of the choices I'd be inclined to vote I don't give a crap.

But as I mentioned in the other thread, I'd prefer a date of purchase policy since I basically got my license to use the original HD beta. Now I'm going to have to buy another license to try another beta because they changed the version number of that beta when they released the final product. Somehow, paying to try betas just doesn't seem right. But it worked out well before, so I'll do it again.

(And I did just pay $2.00 to use MSFT's Office beta on a second machine.)

[davidk21770]

I think there should be a 3rd component on grace period. 1 year. I bought 4 as 5 was coming out. That was less than 9 months ago. I shouldn't have to pay yet... (I haven't tried to see if I got a v4 or a v5 license -- if sage becomes unstable now, my wife will be very unhappy ).

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by davidk21770

I think there should be a 3rd component on grace period. 1 year. I bought 4 as 5 was coming out. That was less than 9 months ago. I shouldn't have to pay yet... (I haven't tried to see if I got a v4 or a v5 license -- if sage becomes unstable now, my wife will be very unhappy ).

That's a variation on what I said. My concern is that if I upgrade now, it will be considered an upgrade to the version 5, not an upgrade to 6, even though I'm only paying an upgrade fee to use 6.

It's basically what happened previously because I bought a license for 3 only to use the beta of 4, which was released as 5. (I think that's how the numbering worked). Whatever the numbering, I never used the product I bought the licensing from, but instead only to use the beta.

As to the non-upgrade option, that won't work for be because of what I basically consider a bug with 5--a stutter on some sports programming. 6 seems much better in that regard, and seems to work with more combinations of codecs (although I'll admit I haven't tried the same combinations with 5.04) So to me it seems like a worthwhile upgrade not because of any new feature, but instead because it's been tweaked to work a bit better.