New 7600GT - nasty issues ensue

[blade]

Originally Posted by Keenan

It reads "4096 bytes in each allocation unit", so I'm assuming I need to re-setup everything? How do I reformat the HDD for 64k clusters? I'm also assuming this is critical for smooth video playback?

The only drives that should be 64k are the recording drives. Do not format the operating system partition to 64k. Doing so will actually hurt performance and take up a lot of extra space. Also you should not be using your C:/ for recording. Partition the disk so that you can have a dedicated area for your recordings and each can use the ideal allocation size.

Go to administrative tools in the control panel. Click on computer management then disk management. Right click on your recording drive and select format then choose 64k for the allocation unit size. Of course all data will be wiped out. There may be programs that allow you to resize without losing the data.

It is critical for smooth playback. When dealing with large files like your recordings using a larger allocation size is going to greatly reduce the amount of disk fragmentation you suffer. For example a 3,200,000KB recording with 4k clusters is 800,000 clusters compared to 50,000 for 64K. Obviously it is impossible for the 64K drive to become as fragmented as the 4K can become.

I noticed in another thread someone mentioned that using an earlier version of Java, a 1.4.x release as opposed to 1.5.0, which is what I'm using solved their stuttering problem. I also notice a thread where a poster indicated polling of his video card temperature was causing a stuttering problem.

You should go back to a 1.4v of Java. The version you're using has a memory leak. Basically as soon as you start playing a video memory usage is going to skyrocket and continue to rise.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Keenan

It reads "4096 bytes in each allocation unit", so I'm assuming I need to re-setup everything? How do I reformat the HDD for 64k clusters? I'm also assuming this is critical for smooth video playback?

Yes, you would be much better off using 64K clusters. Is there anything important on the drive where you are storing the recordings? If not, just use Windows to reformat it using 64K clusters.

If the drive has important data on it, you can use something like PartitionMagic or one of the tools from Acronis to change the cluster size w/o reformatting. If Windows is on that drive, then you probably ought to resize the partition to make it smaller & then add a new partition just for recordings. In either case, make a backup of the drive before using those disk tools.

Edit: I didn't see that the next post was on the next page, so the only info in my post may be that you could use the Acronis or PartitionMagic tools. A lot of people prefer Acronis lately.

- Andy

[Keenan]

Okay, then I definitely have some work to do then as everything is on the C drive. I must have missed, or neglected to read, some important setup information regarding installing Sage.

Adding another drive to the system has been on my to do list, would that be the simplest way to create a recording drive with 64k units? And leave the OS and Sage program on the original C drive? I think re-partitioning the current drive would seem to be a messy way of doing things, no?

Plus, how do you roll back the version of Java?

Edit: I think I may give one of the partitioning programs a shot first, OTOH, with drive prices being so reasonable probably be a better idea just to get another drive.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Keenan

Okay, then I definitely have some work to do then as everything is on the C drive. I must have missed, or neglected to read, some important setup information regarding installing Sage.

I doubt you missed much. There is mention somewhere of using 64k, but not much about keeping things on a seperate paritition and such. They are just things you can do to reduce the amount of fragmentation. The less the drive has to jump around to play the file the better off you're going to be. You can imagine installing programs, temp files, other small files, etc.. would work against that goal.

Adding another drive to the system has been on my to do list, would that be the simplest way to create a recording drive with 64k units? And leave the OS and Sage program on the original C drive? I think re-partitioning the current drive would seem to be a messy way of doing things, no?

Adding a new drive would be simple, but it's really up to you. I was using a 200 gig drive with a 10 gig partition for the OS and the rest as a recording drive. If you're going to have a lot of free space going to waste as a C:/ it would probably be worth partitioning the drive.

Plus, how do you roll back the version of Java?

Go to your control panel and add/remove programs. You should see all the versions of java installed on your computer. Sage will use the newest version you have installed so just uninstall anything newer than 1.4.2_xx.

If you don't have a 1.4 version installed you'll have to install it and then remove the newer ones.

[fyodor]

You may want to try installing reclock and configuring it as your default audio renderer. It helped me with some of the lack of fluidity you were describing.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by blade

I doubt you missed much. There is mention somewhere of using 64k, but not much about keeping things on a seperate paritition and such. They are just things you can do to reduce the amount of fragmentation. The less the drive has to jump around to play the file the better off you're going to be. You can imagine installing programs, temp files, other small files, etc.. would work against that goal.



Adding a new drive would be simple, but it's really up to you. I was using a 200 gig drive with a 10 gig partition for the OS and the rest as a recording drive. If you're going to have a lot of free space going to waste as a C:/ it would probably be worth partitioning the drive.



Go to your control panel and add/remove programs. You should see all the versions of java installed on your computer. Sage will use the newest version you have installed so just uninstall anything newer than 1.4.2_xx.

If you don't have a 1.4 version installed you'll have to install it and then remove the newer ones.

I went with re-partitioning the current drive as there was over 230gb of free space. It's formating with 64k clusters right now. Once that's done I'll rollback the Java version and give it a shot and hoping the problem is solved.

Again, I appreciate all the help everyone's been giving.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by fyodor

You may want to try installing reclock and configuring it as your default audio renderer. It helped me with some of the lack of fluidity you were describing.

I'll see what happens with the re-formatting and if I still have a problem I'll take a look at reclock.

[Keenan]

So far, so good. I think I've seen an occasional stutter in the last 30 mins, not really watching, but letting in run in the background with a look now and then, but it's a huge, huge improvement over what it was.

I think, I'm hoping, you guys have helped me lick this problem. Much thanks!!

Of course, you'll from me if it isn't.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Keenan

So far, so good. I think I've seen an occasional stutter in the last 30 mins, not really watching, but letting in run in the background with a look now and then, but it's a huge, huge improvement over what it was.

I think, I'm hoping, you guys have helped me lick this problem. Much thanks!!

Of course, you'll from me if it isn't.

Maybe that got the kinks out.

Your card may be powerful enough that it isn't an issue, but FSE only works when Sage is actually in full screen. Many lower end cards need FSE and will perform smoother with Sage in fullscreen than in a window. Also sometimes when switching from window or minimized to the task bar back to fullscreen something doesn't go right and stuttering can occur. Sometimes I have to restart Sage and other times I require a full reboot. Just a few things you might look out for if stuttering occasionally pops back up.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by blade

Maybe that got the kinks out.

Not quite. I went to watch a few of the HD recordings I made and they suffered from the same old ailment, the stuttering-skipped or dropped frames, and there is actually some audio dropouts now which is something new. Earlier yesterday I was viewing live TV, mostly SD, and a small amount of HD, and everything seemed much better. But last night, everything seems worse. It's possible that it could be the source, a Star Choice R5000 equipped sat STB-it was already too late to check the live feed-shows were over-but I doubt that was the problem. I'm going to try and grab a few HD programs today and see what happens.

I also tried Reclock and that seemed like it made it worse so I removed it through the Windows Add/Remove app, although I can't swear that it had an actual effect on the problems. There's also a strong possibility that I did not set it up right, I just used the defaults as it was quick and dirty check to see if it helped the situation.

So, I don't know, I have a HDHomeRun coming today so I should be able to get some clear-QAM HD to compare with, hopefully I'll have better results and then I can go back and figure out what's wrong with the Star Choice stuff.

It's frustrating as I love the Sage interface and it's capabilities, and frankly, if I could just get decent HDTV recording playback I would be happy.

[Keenan]

Well, I'm watching another recording from last night, Heroes, and it seems to be fine, even the recording I had trouble watching last night seems to be fine today. I should add that I believe the data is being stored intact as pausing, rewinding, and playing forward through the same scene eliminates the video/audio problem I would experience on the initial play through last night. Today, the same scenes are playing fine without issue. Weird.

[corykim]

Originally Posted by Keenan

Well, I'm watching another recording from last night, Heroes, and it seems to be fine, even the recording I had trouble watching last night seems to be fine today. I should add that I believe the data is being stored intact as pausing, rewinding, and playing forward through the same scene eliminates the video/audio problem I would experience on the initial play through last night. Today, the same scenes are playing fine without issue. Weird.

I'm still trying to remember what I had to do to fix this problem. Just bear in mind that it is resolvable, and that you can expect eventually to have smooth playback of HD content. I'll let you know if I recall what it was.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by corykim

I'm still trying to remember what I had to do to fix this problem. Just bear in mind that it is resolvable, and that you can expect eventually to have smooth playback of HD content. I'll let you know if I recall what it was.

That would be fantastic, I haven't given up on the whole thing yet as it seems most are not having problems, I guess I just got "lucky". HD is really the only purpose for the whole setup, so fixing that is paramount.

[hechacker1]

The nvidia purevideo decoder doesn't always get deinterlacing correct, especially on my 6800gt. I believe that purevideo performance is dependent on the power of the GPU. The lastest 8800 can get a perfect score in that video test benchmark.

Anyways, here are screenshots of the nvidia decoder properties and the control panel options.. maybe there is something in here you forgot to set or check?



I know I get smoother video performance when Vsync is turned off in VMR9 + FSE. It does introduce tearing, but the tearing is preferable to jerky synced images for me. I created a SageTV profile in the nvidia drivers to force SageTV to use no fancy effects (no anti-aliasing, aniso, high quality, etc) and set the vsync.

Finally, update your DirectX to the latest month's version because there are lots of fixes.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/sdk/

[Keenan]

Tried all the above and still have the problem. It seems to not effect SD channels/video much at all, it's primarily with HD content and mostly 1080i content at that, 720p channels seem to fair much better.

Watched a recording of "Bones" tonight(a 720p broadcast), and while the playback was pretty smooth, there was tearing, especially on horizontal pans, and that just isn't going to work.

Not sure where to go from here, I'm tempted to get the latest and greatest video card but I really don't think that is the right fix. It's a shame as I have the HDHomeRun up and running and it's a pretty sweet unit, but with the lousy video, it's currently a waste of money.

One thing I haven't tried is by-passing the DVDO VP50 video processor as that will upset the way everything is connected with the rest of my system, and I really don't think it's the problem. Although, in the spirit of due diligence, I will undoubtedly have to eliminate it as a possible contributor/source of the problem.

I also haven't tried using component out from the video card as the first time I tried when installing the card I wasn't very successful at even getting an image to the display. May have to take a look at that method again.

[Keenan]

Another clue. 720p native broadcast definitely do better than 1080i broadcasts. 720p has smooth playback whereas 1080i is jerky in every station I checked. Both have tearing on mostly horizontal panning though.

My limited knowledge on this would seem to indicate this is an encoder/deinterlacing problem, but I'm really just guessing.

[Keenan]

Played around so more last night. I set the card output to 1280x720p after seeing a post by blade somewhere else where he mentioned it help smooth out his video. My setup was previously outputting 1920x1080i.

Nearly all the stuttering is gone from 1080i source channels with just some tearing happening. 720p channels and even SD programs being broadcast on 1080i/720p channels being nearly perfect. Even commercials seem to do much better with practically no stuttering or tearing.

So, I'm not sure what to make of that. Could it be the vid/card just doesn't have the horsepower? Could it be the output timing from the card at 1920x1080i needs adjustment from the standard setting? I'm not sure what else to do, I find it hard to believe it's the video card, but I am willing to invest some more money in a better one. I'm at the point where SageTV is some great software, and along with my modified Star Choice sat STB and the recently purchased HDHomeRun for cable, it should be a great setup, but if I can't get rid of this problem, it's all pretty useless to me.

Hoping someone has some more clues/suggestions.

[jkohn]

That card should be able to handle 1080, but maybe the interlaced resolution is giving it a hard time for some reason. 1080p is doable with a 7600GT, I'm using one with VMR9 and FSE output to a 1080p display over HDMI (without FSE 1080 content doesn't play back smoothly though). I'm surprised you're still getting tearing, as all the feedback I've seen is that enabling FSE fixes that particular problem.

I have to say I'm really disappointed in the drivers/decoders from NVidia, they're so buggy the pretty much invalidate the advanced features of these cards. I too just got a 7600GT, as an upgrade from a Radeon x1600. A big part of the reason for the ugprade was for HDCP compatibility since I hope to have a BR/HD DVD playback solution soon. But I also bought into the hype in places like AVSForum that the NVidia cards with PureHD and PureVideo would give me the best picture available for HDTV viewing thanks to VMR9 and advanced HD acceleration including IVTC. Well, it turns out that if I enable IVTC and/or "smart" deinterlacing I get these intermittent flashing/pulsing frames that are extremely distracting. So I've had to disable those features in order to get a watchable picture which means I wasted money on the more expensive 7600GT over the cheaper GS. And the HD picture I have no is no better than what I was getting from the Radeon x1600 with PowerDVD decoders.

[jkohn]

Originally Posted by hechacker1

The nvidia purevideo decoder doesn't always get deinterlacing correct, especially on my 6800gt. I believe that purevideo performance is dependent on the power of the GPU. The lastest 8800 can get a perfect score in that video test benchmark.

Anyways, here are screenshots of the nvidia decoder properties and the control panel options.. maybe there is something in here you forgot to set or check?

Which drivers are you using? Do you have the "frame-pulsing" problem when IVTC is enabled? I don't see a "smarter" deinterlacing option just Auto, Weave, Bob, and Smart. I'm using the latest drivers (93.71) because they're supposed to have the PureHD acceleration.

[blade]

Originally Posted by jkohn

Do you have the "frame-pulsing" problem when IVTC is enabled?

No one really knows what causes it. Two people can have identical setups and one will have the problem and the other won't. It happens a lot for me with certain content and not at all with other shows. Also it only happens on one of my clients the other one never has it on any content.

I don't see a "smarter" deinterlacing option just Auto, Weave, Bob, and Smart.

Those settings have nothing to do with the Nvidia decoder. You select the deinterlacing type in the Nvidia decoder tray icon.