New 7600GT - nasty issues ensue

[Keenan]

What is IVTC and what is the deinterlacing method that should work the best? Do either of those have any effect on the problems I'm having?

And if PureVideo, etc. is not the best solution for HD, what is?

I'm not afraid to throw money at a problem to get it fixed, but I would hope there would be a reasonably high probability that it would, in fact, solve the problems. As I've estated earlier, the current configuration/issues is useless to me.

I would prefer a passively cooled card for noise considerations, but if it takes a fan-equipped card, so be it. I've seen some mention of, primarily at AVS, that the 7600GT is prone to video problems, but I really have no idea how true that is.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Keenan

What is IVTC and what is the deinterlacing method that should work the best? Do either of those have any effect on the problems I'm having?

I'll let someone that knows what they're talking about explain IVTC. Stanger made an excellent post not long ago explaining it in detail. If you do a search you may find it.

Basically there is no easy answer. Many things can cause stuttering. If you're serious about trying to track down your problems you should install FRAPS. When using VMR9 it can display the framerate within Sage. You should be seeing 24, 30, or 60 fps depending on your content and decoder settings.

I can tell you using per-pixel adaptive deinterlacing is much more demanding than vertical stretch. Per-pixel is supposed to be superior though. I didn't read through the entire thread and don't recall what all has been suggested and tried up to this point. If you haven't already I would suggest selecting vertical stretch instead of per-pixel. If you're still getting stuttering you have something wrong somewhere.

Also if you're seeing stuttering when playing back film content (24 fps) something is seriously wrong.

I won't go into the details, but I have tested various content types and deinterlacing modes and over and underclocked my 6200 and 6600gt to find out how demanding different content types and deinterlacing modes were and I can assure you that neither of those situations should be stressing your video card. So they would be a good test IMO.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by blade

I'll let someone that knows what they're talking about explain IVTC. Stanger made an excellent post not long ago explaining it in detail. If you do a search you may find it.

Basically there is no easy answer. Many things can cause stuttering. If you're serious about trying to track down your problems you should install FRAPS. When using VMR9 it can display the framerate within Sage. You should be seeing 24, 30, or 60 fps depending on your content and decoder settings.

I can tell you using per-pixel adaptive deinterlacing is much more demanding than vertical stretch. Per-pixel is supposed to be superior though. I didn't read through the entire thread and don't recall what all has been suggested and tried up to this point. If you haven't already I would suggest selecting vertical stretch instead of per-pixel. If you're still getting stuttering you have something wrong somewhere.

Also if you're seeing stuttering when playing back film content (24 fps) something is seriously wrong.

I won't go into the details, but I have tested various content types and deinterlacing modes and over and underclocked my 6200 and 6600gt to find out how demanding different content types and deinterlacing modes were and I can assure you that neither of those situations should be stressing your video card. So they would be a good test IMO.

If IVTC means inverse telecine, then I know what that is. I've tried with it set on and off, and it doesn't seem to make much difference.

I'll try the vertical stretch setting and see what that does, and also install FRAPS and see if it can tell me anything.

[Keenan]

Well, with all my fooling around, 720p channels seem to be fine now. It's the 1080i channels that have the problem. 1080i recordings of film based material, like ER and 3Lbs, even seem to playback fine with just the occasional stutter, but live TV, like a football game, forget, a stuttering mess.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Keenan

If IVTC means inverse telecine, then I know what that is. I've tried with it set on and off, and it doesn't seem to make much difference.

Yes, it's inverse telecine. Well it can make a difference. For me turning it on in the driver just increased cpu usage and caused a lot of problems so I'm not really sure how that is supposed to work. If you leave it off in the driver and select smart in the decoder you should see some content played back at 24 fps and other content at 60 fps. It isn't applied to everything, only the content that needs it. The shows with IVTC applied to them will playback at 24 fps and shouldn't have any stuttering.

For example my 6200 can easily playback 1080i HD content with IVTC applied (24 fps). With HD video content it is only doing 34-44 fps (not the full 60). Some HD clips still look fluid at those framerates and others don't. All I have is test clips so I don't have a lot of different content to test with. Anyway you can see why using IVTC and playing back at 24 fps should be much easier on your video card than deinterlacing and playing 60 fps video content.

[Keenan]

I'll need to re-read your last post thoroughly, but, I installed FRAPS, and 1080i channels are flipping around all over the place from 4-5 when the screen is black to 35-45 range during live action like a football. During commercials it will drop down into the 20's. 720p channels seemed to be locked at 60. I'm not sure how to interpret that info, it would seem to indicate there's something wrong at 1080i...but I already know that.

BTW, I do have IVTC checked in the PureVideo setep.

Recorded playback, Bones(720p) stays locked at 60, 3Lbs(1080i) seems to stay close to 24 but does jump around to higher numbers, not as high as live TV, and it does stutter, but not as much as live 1080i TV which shows even higher numbers.

What's also interesting, is when I'm on a 1080i channel, the Sage menu stutters as well, when pulling up the guide for example. When on a 720p station, the Sage interface is smooth.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Keenan

Well, with all my fooling around, 720p channels seem to be fine now. It's the 1080i channels that have the problem. 1080i recordings of film based material, like ER and 3Lbs, even seem to playback fine with just the occasional stutter, but live TV, like a football game, forget, a stuttering mess.

Are you still using per-pixel adaptive? Your card should have plenty of power so that none of this is even an issue. Something has to be wrong somewhere. You do have the most recent release of DX9.0c and FSE enabled don't you?

[blade]

Originally Posted by Keenan

I'll need to re-read your last post thoroughly, but, I installed FRAPS, and 1080i channels are flipping around all over the place from 4-5 when the screen is black to 35-45 range during live action like a football. During commercials it will drop down into the 20's. 720p channels seemed to be locked at 60. I'm not sure how to interpret that info, it would seem to indicate there's something wrong at 1080i...but I already know that.

BTW, I do have IVTC checked in the PureVideo setep.

Recorded playback, Bones(720p) stays locked at 60, 3Lbs(1080i) seems to stay close to 24 but does jump around to higher numbers, not as high as live TV, and it does stutter, but not as much as live 1080i TV which shows even higher numbers.

It is normal for shows to jump around some, but 24, 30, or 60 are the main numbers you should be seeing. For example 3lbs is mainly 24 fps with some variations. There is no content that should be primarily 35-45 fps. I would assume it should be playing back at 60 fps if your video card could manage it. Assuming there isn't a problem with your captures and the problem is playback related it sounds like your video card is choking for some reason. Are you 100% certain FSE is working and you have 3d accelleration enabled? Record some shows that you get smooth 60 fps playback and some that you get 35-45 fps with and disable FSE and try it. If FSE is working I would expect to see a drop in framerate. If there is no change then I would suspet that FSE isn't working for some reason.

Apparently 1080i content is more taxing on the video card than 720p, just like playing back at 1080i is more demanding than at 720p.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by blade

Are you still using per-pixel adaptive? Your card should have plenty of power so that none of this is even an issue. Something has to be wrong somewhere. You do have the most recent release of DX9.0c and FSE enabled don't you?

This I'm positive of,

"You do have the most recent release of DX9.0c and FSE enabled don't you?"

This I'm not positive of, if this is the setting you mentioned earlier about the vertical stretch, then yes.

"Are you still using per-pixel adaptive?"

In order to make these adjustments I have to direct the output to a 17" LCD as trying to do this on the 73" CRT display it becomes to hard to read the type. I tried running multiple displays before and didn't have much luck with it, so I have to shut the machine down, switch the cable, then reboot. I have been able to make some changes while staying with the CRT but it's really hard on the eyes. At a 720p output res it's easier, but at 1080i it's just too hard to read.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by blade

It is normal for shows to jump around some, but 24, 30, or 60 are the main numbers you should be seeing. For example 3lbs is mainly 24 fps with some variations. There is no content that should be primarily 35-45 fps. I would assume it should be playing back at 60 fps if your video card could manage it. Assuming there isn't a problem with your captures and the problem is playback related it sounds like your video card is choking for some reason. Are you 100% certain FSE is working and you have 3d accelleration enabled? Record some shows that you get smooth 60 fps playback and some that you get 35-45 fps with and disable FSE and try it. If FSE is working I would expect to see a drop in framerate. If there is no change then I would suspet that FSE isn't working for some reason.

Apparently 1080i content is more taxing on the video card than 720p, just like playing back at 1080i is more demanding than at 720p.

Yes, playback of both resolutions "seems" to be fine with 1080i having an occasional stutter. 720p is smooth. I'll record some live football tomorrow at both res and see what happens when I play them back.

The 1080i material does seem to stay close or right on 24fps upon playback, but it does jump around, not near as high as live TV-football though.

[Keenan]

I tried playback and live TV using VLC and the 1080i channels seem to be fine, although I'm not sure what that means.

Also tracked my CPU usage and with 1080i channels it's running about 40-65% with an occasional peak to 80%. From what I've read elsewhere here, that is way too high, but I don't know why it's running that high, or if it's related to my problem.

At this point I'm thinking of wiping the HDD and starting from scratch, although I have my doubts that that will make much difference.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by Keenan

I tried playback and live TV using VLC and the 1080i channels seem to be fine, although I'm not sure what that means.

I double-checked this again tonight and when using VLC I have no video problems. I feel as if the answer to my problem is close, but I don't know what it is, seems as if it's a decoder problem of some sort.

[Keenan]

It looks like I may have solved my stuttering video problem thanks to postings located elsewhere here, the following combination of changes seemed to do the trick, so far anyways.

1) disabled write caching on the recording HDD
2) changed the following line in the Sage properties file, from "true" to "false"

[logging_flush_each_entry=false]

3) overclocked my 7600GT to 600MHz from the stock 560MHz.

On video-sourced 1080i channels, I usually get a FRAPs reading of 60, or just below 60, it will fluctuate a small amount. With film-sourced 1080i channels, I'll get 24fps unless there's some added data, like a fake skyline in a window say, like on a CSI show where it's actually filmed in LA but they use some Las Vegas backdrops.

Tomorrow will be the real test with live NFL as it's readily apparent with that type of material if there is a problem.

My CPU, an Athlon 3800+ still seems to running with high usage numbers, 40-60, sometimes into the low 80's. I still don't understand how some here can run the same programs, SageTV, etc. and have much lower CPU load numbers. So far, it doesn't appear to be a problem. I've definitely got my fingers crossed.