Now that Vista has been released

[mightyt]

I know the consumer release will not be on store shelves until January, but I am sure some of you have access to the real (non-Beta / RC) release of Vista. Now that it is out, have any of you tried SageTV with it? I am considering upgrading my Sage server version 4.x to 6.x when it comes out (hopefully) some time soon. I may just go for the OS upgrade as well? Was it a good experience? Any words of wisdom?

Thanks, T.

[0x1a4]

I was running Vista RC1 for about a month, just installed the final release of Vista Enterprise. Sage works fine (6.0.15). Had a small issue with the time in Sage, but installing the new beta of Java fixed that right up. (There's a thread about this). All I can say is install lots of RAM, Vista is a memory hog.

[Motofreak75]

what do you mean about Vista being a memory hog ?



So you only need 2 gigs to run smoothly

[stevech]

Originally Posted by 0x1a4

All I can say is install lots of RAM, Vista is a memory hog.

memory hog probably means tons more Object Oriented Programming bloat and that leads to eating CPU speed faster than Moore's law. Microsoft's kiddies graduate and often never experience the real business world.

[mightyt]

Originally Posted by 0x1a4

I was running Vista RC1 for about a month, just installed the final release of Vista Enterprise. Sage works fine (6.0.15). Had a small issue with the time in Sage, but installing the new beta of Java fixed that right up. (There's a thread about this). All I can say is install lots of RAM, Vista is a memory hog.

Thanks! No issues with tuner cards / drivers? Did you run it with 2 gig? Did it perform well?

Heck, I've invested in a boat load of other stuff in my PVR, more memory is OK if it really makes a difference.

[0x1a4]

My system:

P4 2.8
512MB RAM
Hauppage PVR-150
Nvidia 5600 ultra
Creative X-Fi Platinum
two SATA hard drives, 250GB and 180GB

It runs Vista OK, But if I get a couple things running, it slows down a lot due to swapping to the hard drive. The final release seems a little better than RC1, but that could be my imagination. 2GB of RAM for a Vista machine seems pretty accurate. I certainly wouldn't use less than 1GB.

No video issues, and Vista had drivers built in for my Hauppage. I use this as my main computer, and as a sage server. I do 99% of my watching on a client. The Vista Areo interface is pretty (and no, I don't want to get into if the KDE or Mac interface is prettier ). It appears that Microsoft has protected the OS better against spyware. Every time you install something it bugs the crap out of you to make sure you really want to install it. Time will tell on that one, those guys are good at getting their junk on your system.

I do computer support for a living, so I need to get familiar with Vista before my customers start using it, otherwise I'd be perfectly content running XP. We're recommending to wait for Service Pack 1 before implementing Vista just to make sure no major bugs surface when everyone starts running it.

Just my opinion, but if you're only running Sage on the box, stick with XP. I can't see anything you'd gain by running Vista other than a higher hardware requirement. When I build my new box early next year, this one will get moved to the TV and be the main sage box there. And I'll use XP for it.

[SHS]

My opinion about Vista

1: Does not support DirectSound 3D Hardware Acceleration which mean no EAX through DirectX so only few mustly newer games already have OpenAL support will work so your SOL with older games that build around EAX.

2: Vista is a major memory hog with Vista Ultimate what I'm seeing 450MB on clean install and that was with out enable MCE, I wonder what Vista Home Basic is going to be like on clean install to bad MS didn't give us an option to try the diff ver of Vista.

3: Problem with XP and Vista is that MS owns you with the WPA (Windows Product Activation) & WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage) with that phones home carp, What you all think going happing when MS turn off validation process for XP which is most likely going happing in a few years which mean you being force to move some other OS.

4: Reinstall XP or Vista on a new assembled system becuases your old system die mean you going re-do the validation process which is not going to match old system hash so now you have CALL MS and think XP bad just wait in tell you get load of Vista, Read this http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11..._eula_worries/

5: You all should be worries about MS planning annual rental fee meaning you be force each and every year to paid in order to keep using windows, office and etc.

[Crazedz]

Hey been gone long lol!


Went fulltime at work transfer to new store big mess with Journeyman baker and manager stupid back and forth tet e tet or however you say that blah blah!

Anyway got time round Christmas missed out on last RC release and got my final a tad late but do have some info on the beta of vista Sage thing.

First had issues with vista clock jumping ahead 6 hours while using sage. Later after posting bugs and having issues supposedly fixed time began jumping back 2 hours.

As for the memory thing I had no real issues with vista slowing down or slamming the hhd while running but my current system is a 3800+ dual core with 1 gig 400mhz ddr ram and a Evga 7800gt CO video card so at least take it to mean vista needs at least 1gig to run proper or more. And a fast or multi CPU is a plus as well. Also Aero/Glass needs a nice higher end card to work properly so take that into consideration as well.

BTW I couldn't get sage to see my tuners in the 64bit version when I tried it though I’ll admit I did it earlier on in the beta and haven't tried it in the later beta's so I can't say for sure if it still doesn't work. It had been worthless to me to run 64 bit without being able to record my shows and later with my job becoming a big headache stress yada yah I just didn't have time to get back to it to see if it's gotten better or not. If I get a chance in the up coming weeks I’ll post my results. Or if anybody else has tried it would be nice to here what they found out with the final and sage.

[AngelofDeth]

Originally Posted by SHS

My opinion about Vista

3: Problem with XP and Vista is that MS owns you with the WPA (Windows Product Activation) & WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage) with that phones home carp, What you all think going happing when MS turn off validation process for XP which is most likely going happing in a few years which mean you being force to move some other OS.

5: You all should be worries about MS planning annual rental fee meaning you be force each and every year to paid in order to keep using windows, office and etc.

Time to switch to linux. Well, at least I probably will sooner switch to linux than ever install Vista. Fortunetly my copy of XP can never be deactivated, and XP should work for at least another five years, most stuff still works on windows 2000, a lot of stuff even still works on windows 98...

[Fountainhead]

Originally Posted by mightyt

Thanks! No issues with tuner cards / drivers?

I'm a SageTV beginner. When I evaluated SageTV I installed it on a P4 2.8 with 2 GB RAM, running Vista RTM. I also installed the Placeshifter client on a laptop (Pentium M 1.73, 1 GB RAM) running Vista RTM. Both worked just fine.

After purchasing Sage though, I rebuilt the server PC with XP. Even though it was working fine under Vista, I wanted to make sure I was using the most stable and proven platform available for sage to run on. I still use a placeshifter client on Vista though. No problem.

My tuner is a Hauppage USB2 PVR, btw. Vista installed drivers for it and I didn't even need to install additional Hauppage drivers. Worked fine out of the gate.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by Motofreak75

what do you mean about Vista being a memory hog ?



So you only need 2 gigs to run smoothly

Personally I think Vista RC 2 (32 bit) runs just as smooth as XP. I am only running a gig of RAM and was runnign 512 and it runs just like XP did. Now when I tried one of the beta releases of Vista is ran so freaking slow I went back to XP the next day.

Also, If you run the 64 bit it takes double the RAM as any OS will need double the RAM. XP also takes a lot of RAM too. When I did a clean install of XP it still used roughly about 500 megs of my 1 gig of RAM, same as Vista. I'd also never go back to XP. I tried for a day or two and hated it.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by Crazedz

Hey been gone long lol!
BTW I couldn't get sage to see my tuners in the 64bit version when I tried it though I’ll admit I did it earlier on in the beta and haven't tried it in the later beta's so I can't say for sure if it still doesn't work. It had been worthless to me to run 64 bit without being able to record my shows and later with my job becoming a big headache stress yada yah I just didn't have time to get back to it to see if it's gotten better or not. If I get a chance in the up coming weeks I’ll post my results. Or if anybody else has tried it would be nice to here what they found out with the final and sage.

I'm just curious, did you even have the drivers installed for the tuners? The 64 bit version will only install certified drivers. I tried usin git but I couldn't get one of my HDTV cards to work on the 64 bit so I decided that really their wasn't a point, yet, to run 64 bit and now I run 32 bit.

[mikejaner]

Also, If you run the 64 bit it takes double the RAM as any OS will need double the RAM. XP also takes a lot of RAM too. When I did a clean install of XP it still used roughly about 500 megs of my 1 gig of RAM, same as Vista. I'd also never go back to XP. I tried for a day or two and hated it.

There's something wrong here. 500 Megs of RAM being used by XP?!?!?!?!?
A clean install of XP only uses about 80-120 Megs of RAM for me.

I am running Vista Ultimate Final with Media Center going to my two Xbox360's as extenders, and it's sitting at 360 Megs of RAM used.

Mike

[Ken C]

Has anyone else read this ?

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt

Is there any validity to this ?

Ken C

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

There's something wrong here. 500 Megs of RAM being used by XP?!?!?!?!?
A clean install of XP only uses about 80-120 Megs of RAM for me.

I am running Vista Ultimate Final with Media Center going to my two Xbox360's as extenders, and it's sitting at 360 Megs of RAM used.

Mike

Dunno, maybe 400 is closer to it but all in all, XP and Vista RC 2 function the same to me and I will never go back to XP. Some things are fruterating about it but it's more on just learning how MSFT moved things around.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by Ken C

Has anyone else read this ?

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt

Is there any validity to this ?

Ken C

I skimmed some of it and overall it seems pretty legit. Cost though? I don't see hardware costing more. Some things do right now for the HDCP but it's not a real cost, it's more of they jacked up the price to get you to pay more to be the first to buy it. Not that I'm for HDCP.

[Crazedz]

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

I'm just curious, did you even have the drivers installed for the tuners? The 64 bit version will only install certified drivers. I tried usin git but I couldn't get one of my HDTV cards to work on the 64 bit so I decided that really their wasn't a point, yet, to run 64 bit and now I run 32 bit.

Sorry had been busy and didn't get back to this before now.

Yes i did use the drivers that both Vista and hauppauge supplied for 64 bit windows. Niether worked. As well as I posted i ended up with that annoying time bug that ended up forcing me into using the 32 bit version of vista. I never did have the time to get back to trying out later versions of vista in 64 bit as the holidays were murder at work.

BTW I did try finally the release version of Vista 64 that I was awarded for posting bugs (Speccifically my bugs with External USB DVD drives as well as some other things) with sage and my Tuner software and sage did see the hauppauge drivers but as you pointed out I was still unable to get my HDTV tuner to work in it but I had not as much problems with the 32 bit version and sagetv.

Anyway as christmas and Newyears came closer I got so bogged down i had almost missed out on my retail copy Of vista if you get my meaning. But MS let me get my Product ID finally so i was happy about that. I also bought a laptop over the holidays and it came with a free vista upgrade so i got a double bonus. The laptop only comes with 512 meg of ram so i may have to upgrade it in the end as well.

I did notice one thing with the Final Vista release that hasn't seemed to have changed or rather changed a little for the worse and that is that Glass still dissables when Sagetv runs because of Java (Though I am using the old version of java so it may have changed some under version 6 of java as well as version 6 of Sage) what seams to be worse is that now glass still seams to be dissabled when Sage is sitting in the taskbar which it didn't used to in the beta versions of vista i had tried.

Im still deciding which version of vista I am going to use but i would prefer the 64 bit version of windows Ultimate over the x86 version. In the end though im going to use the one that works best with my system. Though i intend my Sage server that will be in the living room to run on XP which as other have posted works better and is more responsive.

Anyway I do intend that other PC's in the house run on Vista because of the higher control it gives over the kids pc time (you know what i mean) but for the greater flexibility i want XP on the server with my tuners because i just don't trust MS's latest OS in that role. And everybody that understands me and knows the Media industry as well as MS knows what i mean when i say that.

But please I in no way meant this as a jab at MS or the entertainment industry so please don't use it as such or as a chance to turn this thread into one.

[gplasky]

If you're running Vista you need to use Java 6. It solves your time problem and your Glass problem.

Gerry

[Crazedz]

Well right now im testing the 64 bit ultimate release but before i put it in as my desktop OS I want to determine which works the best as well as will have the best support etc.. Right now the 64 bit works with everything but my Dvico HD tuner. Even with the latest 64 bit drivers which while admitidly not Vista specific I had hoped would work but nogo though everything else does seem to work. I know the x86 version of vista does work better with my hardware or at least the versions i have tried have. So the question is do i want to go 64 bit and wait for 64 bit drivers for vista for my remaining hardware or stay with the old x86 that works better for now?

I want 64 bit as it's arguably the future though my laptop is a x86 pc so it's stuck in 32 bit. Anyway I don't want to have to reinstall my main desktop more than once when I do replace my XP install. Currently I have it setup as a dual boot with 70 gig for the test partition for vista but intend to recover...... Sorry I digress.

Anyway I'll have to try out the new java this weekend if I have time and see how that works out.

Thanks gplasky

[Crazedz]

Ok I messed up my system and right know am in the misdt of recovering my data from my backup after trying to correct a data error on my drive that happened when i installed Vista X64 on my main partition. Long story short i tried to reformat my D drive that had my test install of vista on it at one time but had been formated during install of vista on my main partition but had developed errors so i decided to retry formating it after the install but in the end it joined and formated the other two drives. Not sure how it happened but Vista joined my E and F drives which contained all my important files that I had collected over the last 10 or so years and formated the joined drives as one large 400 gig drive. I don't know how the heck that happened as I had never selected the drives to begin with but it convinces me not to trust Vista 64 at this point, It was problematic before and had driven me to 32 bit in the beta but i had hoped it had gotten better by release time which i guess it has but at least as far as I can tell is still not ready for primetime as evidence by it joining and formating 2 partitions that hadn't even been selected.

FYI be carefull if you choose to install vista 64 don't trust it's disk management program it's not good enough to trust with data at this point.

Just a heads up for thoughs interested.