seems like FIOS TV is for the birds

[reboot_this]

I have, on a few different occasions, tried to call Verzon about getting their Fios tv service (I currently have their internet and phone service which is great) but from what I've heard from different reps... it's a no go for me.

To explain, I currently have Time Warner cable and although the price is questionable, service and channel lineup is pretty good. I figured that I might as well try out their tv service too, heck no. I was informed on a few different occasions by different Verizon reps that I would have to get their standard stb ("read" about $4/mo fee each) for each tv in the house! well let's see I have five tuners in the ol' sage box so that would be about $20 per month for just the needed stbs for "regular 2-99 channels" !?!?!? Forget that!!! I don't think so.

I enjoy having the 2-99 channels through each of my pvr250s and will not pay extra just to be able to tune to those channels! I do have 2 HD (time warner) stbs right now which I use a USB-UIRT to tune those through two of the pvr250s with SageTV. With Verizon Fios TV, those stbs would cost an extra $10 a month each.

So let's add that up:

34.95 for basic extended service through Verizon Fios TV (since I have internet/phone service with them "I save 5 bucks)
3.95 (x5 for each pvr) for standard stbs through coax
9.95 (x2) for HD channel recording above ch 99
11.95 for the "starz, encore channel package"
plus about $10 taxes/fees (which I've been told "those will be around 10 bucks more" buy Verizon reps)

Grand total... 84.60

Now we have to "add" 3 more USB-UIRTs to control the standard stbs to that amount (that's about $150 plus the headache of having to keep them in sync) plus all the IR emitters (5 to be exact) we'll say 4 bucks each for those because I have to get the wires to connect them to the USB-UIRT (ah another $20)

So to start enjoying that good ol' FIOS TV, it will cost me about $254.60 in the first month to get started then about $85/mo thereafter...

WHATEVER, my Time Warner bill is less than Verizon's monthly bill anyway, I'll just stay where I am.....

off the soap-box now

[ToxMox]

Just so you know. You do get some channels via analog. Albeit not that many. Pretty much just local programming.
From Verizon's site:

FiOS TV service is compatible with all TV types. A cable ready tuner TV will allow reception of local service below channels 49

[stanger89]

Welcome to the world of digital TV.

[Fluffdaddy]

I would love to have the option of having FIOS TV whatever the cost. But I fear us Big city folk will not see F-TV anytime soon

[blade]

I felt the same way when I was considering going with satellite. At first glance the price was very good, but after stb fees it would end up costing me more and I would have the hassle of channel changing on the stb. Pretty much the same story for digital cable. It wouldn't be bad if it weren't for all the stbs I'd need. I have 4 tuners in my server and 2 tvs that don't have Sage clients.

I'd love to go digital, but I can live with analog for awhile longer instead of shelling out more $$$.

[stevech]

I suppose the cable companies will send out the end-of-life notice for analog cable any day now, or whittle the content down to local broadcast only/must-carry.

the almighty buck and the monopolies.

[lobosrul]

I suppose the cable companies will send out the end-of-life notice for analog cable any day now, or whittle the content down to local broadcast only/must-carry.

I kind of look forward to that day. More bandwidth available for digital (incl HD) channels available! That is of course unless they decide to 5C encrypt everything. Then I shall rue the day.

[blade]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

I kind of look forward to that day. More bandwidth available for digital (incl HD) channels available! That is of course unless they decide to 5C encrypt everything. Then I shall rue the day.

If it's unencrypted and can be viewed using a PC tuner card I'd love it, but if I'm going to be stuck with stbs just to see extended basic channels I dread it.

[lobosrul]

Originally Posted by blade

If it's unencrypted and can be viewed using a PC tuner card I'd love it, but if I'm going to be stuck with stbs just to see extended basic channels I dread it.

Well you can always output to a pc tuner's s-video port.

I'm talking about encrpytion via firewire. Thats the only (reasonable) way to get hi-def premium cable content on a pc at the moment.

[blade]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

Well you can always output to a pc tuner's s-video port.

I'm talking about encrpytion via firewire. Thats the only (reasonable) way to get hi-def premium cable content on a pc at the moment.

Connecting via s-video would not benefit me. I'm talking about not having to use an stb period. I do not want stacks of stbs lying around the house and I sure don't want to be charged a rental fee for every tv and pvr encoder in my home.

When everyone first went from OTA to cable many tvs in use weren't cable ready and required a stb. Now you don't see anyone using a stb unless they subscribe to the premium channels or digital because almost all new tvs are cable ready.

Once there is no more analog and everything is digital it would be a real pain in the arse if the digital version of the current analog extended basic was encrypted and required a stb or cable card. Forget about PVRs and such. Think about your parents, grandparents, etc.... who just want to buy a tv from the store, connect the coax, and watch it.

It may never happen, but IMO what should happen is that once analog is no more the standard digital package should be unencrypted and function with a tvs built in qam tuner. Then a stb or cable card be used for premium channels. Right now the debate only affects a very small portion of users. When cable companies tell everyone they're required to use an stb there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers if they're being charged $5 a pop for every tv in their home.

Personally I'd rather see us go to something like DRM and be able to capture unencrypted (entire digital basic lineups) on our PCs than to not have DRM and be stuck with a very limited lineup and using stbs.

[lobosrul]

Comcast is getting pretty damn limiting when it comes to analog only cable. In fact I think their CSR told me a couple of years back you cannot even get HBO w/o a box. If however, you have at least one digital box, then you get HBO on any TV (without a box). Looking at the channel lineup on their website, kind of confirms this.

This is what the content providers want, a completely closed system, and the cable co's its way harder to steal cable.

OTA signals will be going all digital in 26 months time. Cable will probably follow suit. It may take the smaller co's many years however.

DRM systems arent going to work with programs like Sage (OK I dont know that for absolute sure).

[blade]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

Comcast is getting pretty damn limiting when it comes to analog only cable. In fact I think their CSR told me a couple of years back you cannot even get HBO w/o a box. If however, you have at least one digital box, then you get HBO on any TV (without a box). Looking at the channel lineup on their website, kind of confirms this.

I would think the majority of cable customers are running extended basic and don't care about digital cable or premium channels. I know they have a monopoly and aren't too concerned, but if they force everyone to go digital and charge them a rental fee for each box they may see a mass exodus to satellite. You're not talking about the customers who want premium or digital programming you're talking about every customer forced to use a stb on every tv in their home.

This is what the content providers want, a completely closed system, and the cable co's its way harder to steal cable.

Currently even the most basic digital lineups offer more programming than the analog extended basic. At least that's the case with my cable company so I assume it's true everywhere. I can see why they'd be concerned about someone with the analog package stealing a basic unencrypted digital lineup; however, once there is no analog and everyone has at the very least a basic digital package there is much less of a reason to encrypt the basic digital package. I'm not saying they won't, but it would make sense.

DRM systems arent going to work with programs like Sage (OK I dont know that for absolute sure).

If MS locked everyone else out so that MCE was the only PVR program capable of capturing from the cable company they'd be in for another lawsuit. At least hopefully someone would stick it to them.

[Narflex]

A Verizon guy came buy my house last night to tell me that they'd laid fiber in my hood so I could finally get FIOS. So I'm all happy about getting my new 15M down and 2M up and while he's on the phone with the office they inform him that I don't have service at my house....what a tease! Not that I know why it's a problem...that'll take some time to find out.

Not that I care about FIOS TV, but I really want a fatter upload pipe at home. And he did say I'd get 3 STBs with the deal (I asked a bunch of questions based on this thread which I'd read earlier that day)....but also FIOS TV wasn't going to be available for at least another month in my area.

[lobosrul]

Blade I pretty much agree with you. But I do see it (digital conversion) happening eventually. First, realize that with sat. you still need 1 box per TV.

And no, once they get a box in your house they dont need to encrypt the firewire port out... however it seems every new channel comcast has added whether SD or HD in the past several months has 5c turned on. I get the feeling they've simply forgotten to switch it on with older channels. For instance they added ESPN2-HD a few months back, but its 5c'd. ESPN-HD is still in the clear.

Hopefully, they'll allow anyone with a QAM tuner to get all the basic channels. And only require a cable-card/digital box for premium chans.

And im not suggesting this is going to happen next week. It will be years after the OTA digital switch over.

[Naylia]

Originally Posted by Narflex

but also FIOS TV wasn't going to be available for at least another month in my area.

There are delays in most communities between Internet and TV availablity as the communities negotiate with Verizon over franchise licenses and town bene's.

[blade]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

First, realize that with sat. you still need 1 box per TV.

Duh, that's the only reason I stuck with cable instead of going with satellite to begin with. I had sat before I moved because cable wasn't available so I'm familiar with how it works, but your missing my point. The basic satellite package provided more content at a lower price than what cable offered, but the monthly fee for the additional receivers drove the price up where it was more expensive than cable. Not to mention the hassle of changing channels on the stb. If customers end up needing stbs and are charged additional fees with cable there is much less incentive to stay with the cable company especially if their packages continue to be more expensive and offer less programming than satellite does. On top of that, if sat companies were smart enough to offer a PC card for use with a PVR and the cable companies lock everyone out and we're forced to use s-video and such there is no way I'd stay with cable.

You keep talking about firewire, but the average consumer doesn't know or care what firewire is. I'm talking about the general public, not the small fraction of customers who use homebuilt PVRs. I don't care if everything is unencrypted via firewire to a PC, if Mom and Pop have to pay an additional $5 per TV in their home just to watch cbs, nbc, abc, etc... they're going to get pissed pretty quickly. That's why I expect and hope they'll have enough sense to unencrypt the basic digital packages once analog is extinct. Many people would likely switch out of anger and spite at being forced to pay additional fees for a box that allows them to watch the same programming they have for years without a box. Unless the cable company plans to let you use them for free.

Hopefully, they'll allow anyone with a QAM tuner to get all the basic channels. And only require a cable-card/digital box for premium chans.

That's what they should do. If not there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers.

[lobosrul]

blade I HOPE a lot of ppl get pissed off at their cable co's. The firewire encrpytion will go hand in hand with pci cablecard and to a lesser extent QAM tuners. Do you think the cable co would be encrypting channels via firewire if they plan on letting anyone with a pc cable card tuner have it in the clear??

Im tired of paying an arm and a leg for 100's of channels when I really watch about 12 of them.

And Im tired of needing cable at all when dozens of channels could be broadcast via digital OTA. Why in hell should we be paying for commercial TV?! Other countries, ie britain, get over 30 channels ota, free and clear.

[Naylia]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

blade I HOPE a lot of ppl get pissed off at their cable co's. The firewire encrpytion will go hand in hand with pci cablecard and to a lesser extent QAM tuners. Do you think the cable co would be encrypting channels via firewire if they plan on letting anyone with a pc cable card tuner have it in the clear??

Firewire encryption exists because without it you could freely make digital copies of all the premium content, any cable card based solution will likely involve significant DRM and potentially HDCP requirements a la the high def movie formats...you'll never get it in the clear, but they may very well DRM it to death and charge you $5 a month for the cable card