Video Stutter with v6

[Kirby]

HTPC is clean install from a week ago (rest of system specs in sig):

• BFG 7800GTX PCI-e, 256MB
• XP Pro SP2 with all windows updates
• DirectX 9.0c (December re-dist)
• Sage 6.0.18 client installation
• Jave JRE 1.6.0 release
• Nvidia 93.71 driver, single display, 1920x1080i resolution
• Nvidia PureVideo 1.02-223, automatic deinterlacing set, Prefer VMR9,everything else default
• Sage settings: VMR9, FSE on, 3D on, Nvidia Video Decoder, AC3filter Audio decoder.

Also in reference the the FSE losing focus issue, I dont do anything that would steal focus from Sage, never minimize it. Also, when I start sage client, I have it go directly into full screen, not windowed mode, if it matters.

[Keenan]

Just found this thread thanks to a PM from the OP.

I as well am having stuttering problems with 1080i material, specifically high data, high movement like football. Stuff like Conan or Letterman seem to be fine, although film-based stuff like ER will look okay until there's a horizontal pan, and then it jerks when panning instead of being smooth. 720p material looks great and I' haven't come across any issues with that format.

I'm not sure what that means other than somewhere in the processing chain the system is getting tripped up by 1080i material.

Currently using:

7600GT
Athlon 3800+
2GBs RAM
PureVideo(latest)
VMR9
FSE.
Smart
IVTC on
AC3Filter(not sure which version)

I grabbed of few lines from some previous posts, how does one go about setting what's discussed below?

If Sage ever drops FSE it will never pick it back up. I set the property for it to not release FSE, but it still drops is sometimes.



Kirby, I see you're using Windows XP Pro, using Windows MCE version shouldn't have anything to do with this problem would it? Also, is Java 1.6 "fixed"? I've read here that 1.5X was having memory leak problems so I'm still using 1.4, been wary of upgrading to 1.6.

[Kirby]

I havent had any memory bug issues with 1.6.0 JRE so far. I did experience them with 1.5.x versions, and even a few times on the beta's of 1.6. So far 1.6.0 has been good for me. Of course now that I say that, it will probably go nuts. When all else fails, I drop back to 1.4.2_11.

I dont think MCE vs. Pro would be an issue, but my knowledge of MCE isnt that great. I thought it was basically Pro with the MCE addons, and domain functionality stripped. But I really dont know.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by Keenan

Just found this thread thanks to a PM from the OP.

He sure can be a pain cant he? Just kidding Ron!

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by Kirby

I havent had any memory bug issues with 1.6.0 JRE so far. I did experience them with 1.5.x versions, and even a few times on the beta's of 1.6. So far 1.6.0 has been good for me. Of course now that I say that, it will probably go nuts. When all else fails, I drop back to 1.4.2_11.

I dont think MCE vs. Pro would be an issue, but my knowledge of MCE isnt that great. I thought it was basically Pro with the MCE addons, and domain functionality stripped. But I really dont know.

That was my take on MCE as well, should not be an issue, but as you can probably tell, I'm at the grasping at straws point with this problem. The fact that it works fine for some and not for others certainly doesn't make it an easy problem to diagnose.

I've actually screamed at my display and thrown remotes into the couch over this problem.

[TBacker]

Every HTPC software I have tested has some issues with HD jitter / studder. Sage has been the only one that I have used that had the issue, but I was able to clear up.

I have the "standard" nVidia setup - 7600GT card, PureVideo decoder (v 1.02.223). Sage is running VMR9 FSE 3D accelerated. It is set up to start in FSE, and I have TweakUI installed just to prevent anything else from stealing focus from Sage (and thus kill FSE).

The one thing that killed my jitter problem is going WAY back to version 84.26 of the driver for the 7600GT.

Numerous posters in other forums report that after that version of the driver, nVidia broke many things affecting HD performance.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by Keenan

That was my take on MCE as well, should not be an issue, but as you can probably tell, I'm at the grasping at straws point with this problem. The fact that it works fine for some and not for others certainly doesn't make it an easy problem to diagnose.

I've actually screamed at my display and thrown remotes into the couch over this problem.

At least you arent throwing the remotes at that display! I agree with the issues of diagnosing this. Its not going to be easy.

It would be much easier if this didnt work for anyone. I'm wondering if anyone has tried another video decoder, as everything seems to be concetrated on Nvidia. How about Cyberlink's from PDVD7, or Elecard's?

Better yet, are you guys seeing stuttering if you drag a HD file into graphedit and play it from there? This would rule Sage out of the equation. Unless of course its grabbing a Sage decoder by default, instead of Nvidia or other.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by salsbst

I have stuttering in v6 where there wasn't any under v5.

I think I must have mentioned it in another thread, but there is a process that goes one when you first install 6 that takes some time and eats processor time. I think on my machine it lasted about two days.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by Kirby

At least you arent throwing the remotes at that display! I agree with the issues of diagnosing this. Its not going to be easy.

It would be much easier if this didnt work for anyone. I'm wondering if anyone has tried another video decoder, as everything seems to be concetrated on Nvidia. How about Cyberlink's from PDVD7, or Elecard's?

Better yet, are you guys seeing stuttering if you drag a HD file into graphedit and play it from there? This would rule Sage out of the equation. Unless of course its grabbing a Sage decoder by default, instead of Nvidia or other.

Haven't tried it in about a week, but everything seems to play fine with VLC, so my assumption is the problem lies with Sage and/or the Nvidia decoders, with the audio decoders possibly adding to the mix--I haven't played too much with those, setup AC3 Filter and just ran with it.

Haven't tried the other decoders or graphedit, not even sure what that is.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by TBacker

The one thing that killed my jitter problem is going WAY back to version 84.26 of the driver for the 7600GT.

So are you saying that rolling back to 84.26 solved you stuttering problem? I've seen that mentioned before but haven't tried it yet. I think I looked for 84.26 and couldn't find it.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Keenan

So are you saying that rolling back to 84.26 solved you stuttering problem? I've seen that mentioned before but haven't tried it yet. I think I looked for 84.26 and couldn't find it.

Here's the link:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_84.26.html

Please let us know if this solves your issues, if you try it.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by Keenan

Haven't tried it in about a week, but everything seems to play fine with VLC, so my assumption is the problem lies with Sage and/or the Nvidia decoders, with the audio decoders possibly adding to the mix--I haven't played too much with those, setup AC3 Filter and just ran with it.

Haven't tried the other decoders or graphedit, not even sure what that is.

Graphedit is a tool that you can drag a media file into, and it will display the entire filter chain for the file. So you can see exactly which mpeg splitter is being used (sage, nvidia, etc) which video and audio decoders, and you can manipulate the filters, and change filters. You can get it from here:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=GraphEdit

When you say you setup ac3filter and ran with it, are you talking about the whole ac3filter program downloaded from the internet, or just the audio codec supplied by Sage? If the download version, I believe there is an AC3 encoder involved as well, and it might be enabled by default. Not sure if this could be causing some issues or not, but encoding AC3 audio would certainly increase the load on the playback system. I have mine set to pass thru AC3 and DTS sound to my sound card.

[Keenan]

Ron, Kirby, I'll be checking both of these tonight.

Kirby, I DL'ed the AC3Filter from the net and installed it. Chose it in the Sage setup and have been using it that way. Are you saying I may have it setup wrong, or using part of it that is not necessary?

[Kirby]

Yep, you need to go into the Ac3filter configuration program from your start menu. Define your speaker type on the first tab, probably something like "3/2+SW 5.1 Channels". And I select "use SPDIF" to utilize it on my soundcard. Then on the "System" tab, you will want to probably pass through AC3, maybe DTS and MPEG audio if your receiver can handle it, or if your sound card is doing something with those. Far right of that screen is the option to use ac3 encoder, which I have turned off. Its really quite configurable, as you will see. There is a very long, but decent, instruction guide on the ac3filter site as well.

And lastly, if you want to make sure Sage is using this AC3filter, and not the one they send along, copy the ac3filter.ax file from the AC3filter install directory into the SageTV directory (overwriting the Sage supplied one).

[Keenan]

Okay, installed the 84.26 Nvidia drivers, didn't seem to make a difference. What did make a difference is using overlay instead of VMR9, stuttering is gone.

Does that mean anything useful?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Keenan

Okay, installed the 84.26 Nvidia drivers, didn't seem to make a difference. What did make a difference is using overlay instead of VMR9, stuttering is gone.

Does that mean anything useful?

Jim:

I haven't tried rolling back driver, however in my setup I've found that with overlay, instead of VMR9, I get perfect playback. But it still doesn't address why some can get perfect playback with VMR9 and others can't. I stated that in my original post.

Hang in there. There's enough of us having this issue. We'll get it resolved..... eventually (I hope).

[Keenan]

I'd settle for Overlay, but the picture quality doesn't seem to be as good as using VMR9.

I'm not giving up yet, at this point it's the principle of the thing, it should work, so by golly, I'm going to make it work, one way or the other.

As I've noted in other threads, I'm fully prepared to throw money at the problem, but I simply don't think that's the answer. If someone could say with conviction, "buy this", it's bought, but right now, it's basically fiddling with settings and hoping for the best.

[gateslinger]

I tried V6 today after a few setbacks, got nothing but stutter. Running a 6600GT, purevideo decoder, VMR9, no HD inputs (2 H150 cards). Could not get the stutter out of the system.

Went back to V5. It's stable, it works, maybe V6 will be fixed. Very disappointing experience.

[cummings66]

I really hope ALL of you guys are filing bug reports on this. It's a MAJOR issue as I tried to point out to them and they're ignoring it. They had this reported numerous times in Beta and yet they released it without one single attempt made at a fix.

They need to know of the new guys having problems and maybe just maybe they'll get around to fixing it.

As I said before, this V6 should not have been released, it's got some serious bugs in it that should not be there. When a person with a working V5 system installs the V6 program and it now will not playback HD without stutter it's not a driver issue, it's not hardware, it's software. Ask yourself, what changed? Simple answer is Sage changed.

I told sage to not drop FSE and it seems to have helped out a lot, but once in a while I have to exit and restart because it still drops FSE for some reason or another. How do I know that? Simple, I can display windows menus on top of Sage when that should not be possible.

Sage has not returned an email to me since I've reported the bug and the fact that their suggested fix didn't work. Sage changed how V6 deals with FSE and they broke it in the process.

What I did notice is this, it looks like a pattern is forming. I have AGP, as do most others who have stutter. Kirby has PCI-e and I'm wondering...

[Ron]

Originally Posted by cummings66

What I did notice is this, it looks like a pattern is forming. I have AGP, as do most others who have stutter. Kirby has PCI-e and I'm wondering...

I also have PCI-e.