Congrats on the HD media extender and Sage Server system

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gblinckmann

I just saw a video on WHS (Windows Home Server). It seems that it really can run pretty much anything that Windows Server 2003 SP2 can run. We should be able to build our own servers.

Well for that situation, you should be able to just move your license, like you can today from one PC to another.

I don't think that this will be a special "Sage Only" specific server.

Supposedly (from the first post I believe) Sage was showing a dedicated, out of the box SageTV server at CES.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Supposedly (from the first post I believe) Sage was showing a dedicated, out of the box SageTV server at CES.

It was. It was running in an antec Aria box and had a TB of storage in it, for something like $1200. I didn't ask too many questions about it, but there should be a press release for this. I think it was an AMD based system.

Thanks,
mike

[ozfiles]

I have been looking at getting an extender for a while now.
I think, I will wait for the new extender to come out and get all the advantanges of hdtv thru the extender.
Sagetv just keeps getting better and better in my book.

[davefred99]

I sure hope we are not getting all excited over over nothing here. I guess I am just skeptical about any new HTPC stuff until I here all the details. It has not yet been confirmed that this new HD extender will be compatable with our current Windows XP based (version 6) Sagetv systems. What if it only works on this new SageTV Server and requires Vista. I am sure this would really pissoff a lot of current loyal customers but the way the industry is moving towards locking down everything it would not surprise me.
I know that I am not going to pay for anything new that resticts fair use any further.
I can only hope that SageTV continues to support us the way they have in the past. I hope it takes few more years until Vista becomes mainstream. By then I hope that the industry gets smart and backs off or some smart folks figure out how to defeat all the restictions like they have with DVD's.
The devil is in the details and like most of you I want to get excited but until I here someting definetive from SageTv I am just a little cinical.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by davefred99

I sure hope we are not getting all excited over over nothing here. I guess I am just skeptical about any new HTPC stuff until I here all the details. It has not yet been confirmed that this new HD extender will be compatable with our current Windows XP based (version 6) Sagetv systems. What if it only works on this new SageTV Server and requires Vista. I am sure this would really pissoff a lot of current loyal customers but the way the industry is moving towards locking down everything it would not surprise me.

It doesn't make sense, technical or otherwise, to only support Vista. There's nothing(currently) to what an extender does that would require Vista. Plus I don't think SageTV is inclined to commit suicide.

[gblinckmann]

Yeah, I wouldn't be looking at Sage supporting CableCard, even with at dedicated server. The DRM and certification process would be crazy! Since Sage is built on Java, I don't think that they are going to have any compatibility problems. That's really the point of Java, to make the software portable. I'll be happy with OTA ATSC until some other reasonable HDTV format is available. (CableCard and the associated restrictions just isn't reasonable!)

Looking how Sage is done, I really think that Sage would work out-of-the-box on Windows Home Server as soon as it ships. They really would just want to make a special version to change the UI so that it shows up in the management console. If one wanted to manage it via a remote desktop console, it would just look like it's on Windows Server 2003 R2. I manage mine this way now on XP and just use extenders to watch.

I was skeptical of Sage being done in Java when I started looking at it, but it's been rock-solid. Even the Sage betas have been better than a lot of the production code that I run.

[davefred99]

Originally Posted by Lucas

It doesn't make sense, technical or otherwise, to only support Vista. There's nothing(currently) to what an extender does that would require Vista. Plus I don't think SageTV is inclined to commit suicide.

I agree that to you and me it makes now sense. I only put that out there for someting to think about. I am very skeptical about the long term future for all PC based solutions. Too me it is very important for companies like Sage to continue to offer alternatives to MS and the content providers. Nothing to date has made me think that they will cave in to the industry pressures but my guess is that being a for profit business they might feel they have to, just to stay in business.
Actualy I hope that someone from Sage puts out a statement real soon so that we can all know what there plans are going forward. If everyting gooes as we hope the new HD Extenders will sell like hotcakes and I will be one of the first ones in line.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by davefred99

I sure hope we are not getting all excited over over nothing here. I guess I am just skeptical about any new HTPC stuff until I here all the details. It has not yet been confirmed that this new HD extender will be compatable with our current Windows XP based (version 6) Sagetv systems. What if it only works on this new SageTV Server and requires Vista. I am sure this would really pissoff a lot of current loyal customers but the way the industry is moving towards locking down everything it would not surprise me.
I know that I am not going to pay for anything new that resticts fair use any further.
I can only hope that SageTV continues to support us the way they have in the past. I hope it takes few more years until Vista becomes mainstream. By then I hope that the industry gets smart and backs off or some smart folks figure out how to defeat all the restictions like they have with DVD's.
The devil is in the details and like most of you I want to get excited but until I here someting definetive from SageTv I am just a little cinical.

The system the extender was running off of at CES was not Vista.

Vista is Oinkware - it's a pig. We don't need it, sage doesn't need it, and while Sage can run on it, the neutered Vista support for Cablecard makes it uninteresting, even if Sage could use it's features, which it can't.

I find it interesting that people keep saying there is no way to compete aginst MSFT at the very moment in history when MSFT's monopoly influence on computing is near an all time low. Look at Google, Apple, etc...

There is plenty of room in this market for something like Sage. High end media users need something like Sage rather than MCE.

Thanks,
Mike

[davefred99]

Originally Posted by mikesm

The system the extender was running off of at CES was not Vista.

Vista is Oinkware - it's a pig. We don't need it, sage doesn't need it, and while Sage can run on it, the neutered Vista support for Cablecard makes it uninteresting, even if Sage could use it's features, which it can't.

I find it interesting that people keep saying there is no way to compete aginst MSFT at the very moment in history when MSFT's monopoly influence on computing is near an all time low. Look at Google, Apple, etc...

There is plenty of room in this market for something like Sage. High end media users need something like Sage rather than MCE.

Thanks,
Mike

Well I am glad to here at least the prototype sytem was not using or requireing Vista. Gives me some sense of optimism. I am with you on Sage's unique opportunity to to buck MSFT's monopoly influence. But we need a better option than just OTA & unencrypted HD for the future. As Providers like Direct Tv & Cable get more National HD channels, mainstream users will not be satisfied with a glass half full. That is why I am so skeptical. I am already planning on getting a Direct Tv HD PVR so I can atleast timeshift those channels for now. I use Sage mostly for my non HD tv's and for stored DVD playback.
Dave,

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by davefred99

Well I am glad to here at least the prototype sytem was not using or requireing Vista. Gives me some sense of optimism.

Having used Sage for, what probably 4 years (since version 1.2 IIRC), I find the fears of us being "sold to Vista" completely unfounded, one need look no further than the linux support to see that.

That said...

I am with you on Sage's unique opportunity to to buck MSFT's monopoly influence. But we need a better option than just OTA & unencrypted HD for the future. As Providers like Direct Tv & Cable get more National HD channels, mainstream users will not be satisfied with a glass half full.

If we have any hope of getting these, I think the best (meaning most likely not necessarilly preferred) opportunity will be for Sage to provide the options of leveraging Vista's security mechanisms to satisfy the content owners fears and provide CableCard and/or direct D* recording.

Not that it couldn't be done in some proprietary solution on XP, but, well, if MS couldn't convince the content owners they could secure XP, Sage won't be able to.

[Ryokurin]

I can think of two reasons not to run the server product on vista in public until more information can be given. for one Java for the most part is still kind of wonky and untested in vista and people assuming that you'll need vista for it to work.

[lobosrul]

The more I read about Vista, the more I dislike it:

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/12/2240214

I seem to go thru hardware insanely fast. A copy of Vista may only last me 2 or 3 years with those restrictions.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

The more I read about Vista, the more I dislike it:

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/12/2240214

I seem to go thru hardware insanely fast. A copy of Vista may only last me 2 or 3 years with those restrictions.

I dont have any linkage, but I do believe this was already addressed and eliminated from MS.

[Stuntman]

Originally Posted by Opus4

complaints and rants about licenses and extender details

That should read concerns and worries rather than complaints and rants... I think most of us here hope that by posting concerns and worries that these issues may be brought to light by those people at SageTV that need to be concerned about what us, the consumers, are thinking and wanting.. nobody, or should I say, most of us can't and won't complain about things we have no information on.. rather we discuss our wishes and concerns about a product we are excited about..

Would no discussion be better? I'd think discussion, concerns and even rants and complaints would all be helpful in the end, in creating a product that will best fit what the market is looking for...

Sage does a good job of ignoring most of our discussions and rants, but I can't believe that no concern, worry or suggestion that has ever been posted here has not at some point ended up turning on a light bulb in some developers head..

My concerns and complaints are simply that.. mine.. but perhaps others share those same things.. perhaps not.. but it will, if you believe in open discussion, all blend together for a better product.. whatever that ends up being, and whenever that product ends up appearing..

<Stepping down>....

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Kirby

I dont have any linkage, but I do believe this was already addressed and eliminated from MS.

Yeah, it came up on AVS, and I'm 99% sure it was debunked/retracted.

Most of the negative news about Vista is FUD. Granted MS hasn't been the best about explaining it all, and even if it were, many of the issues are complex with significant nuances, for example the difference between supporting content protection, and forcing it.

[lobosrul]

Maybe VISTA is being over-negativley-hyped, however Ive yet to see a really positive review of a release candidate, other than "it looks shiny".

[blade]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

Maybe VISTA is being over-negativley-hyped, however Ive yet to see a really positive review of a release candidate, other than "it looks shiny".

I'm sure that's the case. I find it funny that people forget how much everyone complained when win95 and XP were released. I remember reading how they were resource hogs and people were going to refuse to run them. Remember how terrible having to activate XP was? There were many people who complained that it was unacceptable and they would never upgrade because of it. I'm sure there are things we won't like, but I don't think it's going to be so terrible that people don't eventually upgrade.

[Bathel]

Originally Posted by spike5884

Hey maybe this is what SageTv is keeping secrets about:

Cisco Taking on Apple TV with Secret Competitor.

How cool would that be!

Since Cisco owns Scientific Atlanta, I'd assume that it would be something released via SA and not SageTV.

I have several friends at Cisco (one is a Director) I'll see if they have any information on that.

[tmiranda]

Ditto blade. In 5 years most "PC people" will have at least one copy of Vista. I personally have 6 PCs in my house:

1. A Sage server. Right now it runs XP Home and I won't upgrade it until I have to. If Sage comes out with some great feature that needs Vista (read encrypted HD recording) I will upgrade without complaint.

2. An Ubuntu machine. I use this for "everyday tasks" and will probably continue to do so.

3. A PC for the kids. Right now they are 5 and 7 so XP Home works just fine. As they get older I am almost certain they will need Vista to run whatever games they are interested in.

4. A laptop running XP Home. I will not update this but when the machine finally dies I am almost certain the replacement will have Vista preinstalled. I'm not going to reformat the drive and install XP......

5. A PC that my wife uses. It uses XP Pro but, like the laptop, when it dies I will probably buy a machine with Vista preinstalled.

6. A NAS machine that is Linux based. Unless the folks at ServerElements suddenly go stupid they will almost certainly continue to use Linux.

The right tool for the right task. In some cases Vista will be the right tool and in some cases it will not.

[AngelofDeth]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Yeah, it came up on AVS, and I'm 99% sure it was debunked/retracted.

Most of the negative news about Vista is FUD. Granted MS hasn't been the best about explaining it all, and even if it were, many of the issues are complex with significant nuances, for example the difference between supporting content protection, and forcing it.

It actually was in the license for the retail editions, but it has since been changed. This was always supposed to be the case even for XP, for the OEM editions. They just haven't enforced it as far as I know. Will be interesting to see if they start enforcing the no new hardware for the OEM copies...