Recommended NAS?

[toricred]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

But you have green chile.

Actually you can get canned green chile almost anywhere, but we have good green chile. We also have sopapillas.... Maybe one of those would make me feel better.

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by toricred

Actually you can get canned green chile almost anywhere, but we have good green chile. We also have sopapillas.... Maybe one of those would make me feel better.

nothing like New Mexico green chile

[toricred]

Alright, I guess there are some benefits to NM, but I'd still like to have something like Fry's or Microcenter.

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by mikesm

For 6 disks, you should be seeing double that. You are running XFS, and the stripe size on the disks is 128KB or 256KB? Is the xfs volume very fragmented?

hdparam isn't the best tool by the way. Try running bonnie++ and see what it says...

I am running XFS in a 128K stripe. When I formatted the raid 5 array, I used defaults. When I did the raid 0, it was mkfs -V -t xfs -f -d su=128k,sw=8 /dev/md1

I run a nightly cron for fragmentation
B

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by toricred

I was afraid of that. It's in store only. The nearest Fry's is about 1000 miles away. I really hate living in a state that is so backwards.

It's on sale on the website too... You just have to pay shipping. It appears there is no difference between this and the normal seagate 1TB drive in specs - just a 3 yr warranty as opposed to 4.

http://shop4.outpost.com/product/552...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

I am running XFS in a 128K stripe. When I formatted the raid 5 array, I used defaults. When I did the raid 0, it was mkfs -V -t xfs -f -d su=128k,sw=8 /dev/md1

I run a nightly cron for fragmentation
B

Sorry, I was referring to raid5 chunk size, which should be 128K... If this is too low, you won't get good sequential transfer rates...

[toricred]

Originally Posted by mikesm

It's on sale on the website too... You just have to pay shipping. It appears there is no difference between this and the normal seagate 1TB drive in specs - just a 3 yr warranty as opposed to 4.

http://shop4.outpost.com/product/552...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Now that's the link I was looking for. Unfortunately they are now sold out and it looks like the price is for today only. I'll have to keep a closer eye on this in the future.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by toricred

Now that's the link I was looking for. Unfortunately they are now sold out and it looks like the price is for today only. I'll have to keep a closer eye on this in the future.

Sorry, for some reason I thought you were in LA.

[toricred]

I understand. We frequently run into people (mostly back east) that think New Mexico isn't even in the US.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by toricred

I understand. We frequently run into people (mostly back east) that think New Mexico isn't even in the US.

No, I just didn't bother looking at the location listed in the upper right hand corner... Even though I went to a public school, I know where New Mexico is... :-)

[toricred]

I certainly didn't mean to imply you didn't know about us, just stating that we are used to people not knowing. I assume you were joking, but I wanted to make sure there are no hard feelings.

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by mikesm

Sorry, I was referring to raid5 chunk size, which should be 128K... If this is too low, you won't get good sequential transfer rates...

chunk size is 128K

B

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

chunk size is 128K

B

You aren't using the last two SATA ports of the ICH9R are you in your RAID5? SATA5 and SATA6? Apparently they have may some issues with them that can impact performance. And in RAID5, the array is basically slowed down by the slowest disk.

You might get a cheap 3132 based PCIE sata card and try those ports for the two disks on SATA5 and SATA6. For about $20, it's generally worth trying. Also, check your local best buy. Many have a PNY PCI-E 2 port SATA card that has the SI chipset on it on closeout for $11.99. I picked up a couple last week at a local BB.

The other issue could be the mixing of the two kinds of disks. The firmware differences coupled with geometry differences can yield seeking that gets out of sync. That's why folks recommend using only the same model disks in a RAID5 array...

Still, your performance should be more than adequate for NAS use...

[bcjenkins]

5 and 6 are used on raid0. sounds like I should keep my config the way it is. replacing disks is not an option. thanks for your help.

B

[ScottK]

Hi Mike (and all),

I'm looking to build a NAS and stumbled across this incredibly helpful thread and forum. My plan is to go with Linux software-RAID5 + LVM2 using 1TB drives. Initially with the minimum (3 drives, 2TB of storage), but expanding with additional drives later as needed. I'm not expecting to need more than 5TB storage.

This is my proposed list:

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P (ICH9R, 6+2 SATA II, Realtek 8111B Gigabit)
CPU: Intel Core2Duo E4500 (2.2GHz)
RAM: 1GB DDR2-667
Case: CoolerMaster Centurion 5 SE 460W, 5x5.25 exp, 1x3.5 exp, 4x3.5 int, 8cm front fan, 12cm rear fan
RAID5: 3x 1TB 3.5" SATA-II Western Digital Caviar GP Hard Drive, RoHs Green Power 7200rpm 16MB [WD10EACS]
OS Drive: Miscellaneous old SATA (or IDE if I ever want to use all 8 SATA for the RAID5 -- unlikely)

Given that I'm unlikely to need more than 5TB, PMP shouldn't be a concern.

From what I've read, the 460W PSU should be plenty so long as I can ensure staggered spin-up. Is the case reasonable?

How does this config sound?

I'm planning on using EXT3 for the file-system because of the issues XFS has with corruption on power loss. Also interesting I just read that XFS doesn't support shrinking at all -- may not be needed, but you never know. EXT3 can be grown online or offline, and can be shrunk offline. XFS can only be grown, and only online.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

5 and 6 are used on raid0. sounds like I should keep my config the way it is. replacing disks is not an option. thanks for your help.

B

If you can find a cheap PCIE SATA2 controller, try sticking SATA5 and SATA6 on it and retest. It may help...

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by ScottK

Hi Mike (and all),

I'm looking to build a NAS and stumbled across this incredibly helpful thread and forum. My plan is to go with Linux software-RAID5 + LVM2 using 1TB drives. Initially with the minimum (3 drives, 2TB of storage), but expanding with additional drives later as needed. I'm not expecting to need more than 5TB storage.

This is my proposed list:

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P (ICH9R, 6+2 SATA II, Realtek 8111B Gigabit)
CPU: Intel Core2Duo E4500 (2.2GHz)
RAM: 1GB DDR2-667
Case: CoolerMaster Centurion 5 SE 460W, 5x5.25 exp, 1x3.5 exp, 4x3.5 int, 8cm front fan, 12cm rear fan
RAID5: 3x 1TB 3.5" SATA-II Western Digital Caviar GP Hard Drive, RoHs Green Power 7200rpm 16MB [WD10EACS]
OS Drive: Miscellaneous old SATA (or IDE if I ever want to use all 8 SATA for the RAID5 -- unlikely)

Given that I'm unlikely to need more than 5TB, PMP shouldn't be a concern.

From what I've read, the 460W PSU should be plenty so long as I can ensure staggered spin-up. Is the case reasonable?

How does this config sound?

I'm planning on using EXT3 for the file-system because of the issues XFS has with corruption on power loss. Also interesting I just read that XFS doesn't support shrinking at all -- may not be needed, but you never know. EXT3 can be grown online or offline, and can be shrunk offline. XFS can only be grown, and only online.

On the hardware side, the config should be fine, but I would go with 2 GB of ram, as it's dirt cheap and will allow you to aggressively use memory for disk buffer i/o, which will help with performance.

Folks have reported some issues with the last 2 SATA ports on the ICH9R, so I might suggest getting a cheap 2 port SATA2 PCIE controller rather than using SATA5 and SATA6 for the array. Putting an optical disk on system disk on those ports should OK though.

Also, that realtek GbE controller is a bit of a dog - either get a MB that has a Marvell onboard, or get a marvel or better yet intel PCI-E based GbE controller. It will do a lot better in being able to serve clients at very high data rates. Intel GbE PCIE's are fairly expensive, but can be found on ebay for a lot less. I got one for $29 shipped awhile back.

System drive doesn't really matter, but stay away from the GP series form WD. They are not good for raid, but the non GP WD drive is fine.

The PSU is more than adequate, as linux does staggered spinup by default, and the other components are pretty low power. The only thing to watch out for is that if you are not using a sata rack that provides it's own cooling, you need to make sure the disks have good cooling. The coolermaster stacker is is a great case for this, with lots of room for expansion, and is usually available for about $60 on their refurb store...

As for filesystem, do you NOT want to go ext3. It has serious performance problems for the kind of operation media serving requires. Stick with XFS, and stick a UPS on the system to deal with power failures, though personally I never seen issues with it. XFS is really the way to go.

Good luck!

[lobosrul]

Originally Posted by toricred

I understand. We frequently run into people (mostly back east) that think New Mexico isn't even in the US.

Thats why we have USA printed on our license plates (at least the old yellow ones did).

Originally Posted by toricred

Alright, I guess there are some benefits to NM, but I'd still like to have something like Fry's or Microcenter.

Not even Albuquerque has a very good PC store. Either they're small with limited stock (and over-priced), or theres Best-buy (over-priced), or Comp-USA (UGH! and over-priced).

[ScottK]

Thanks for the detailed responses!

Originally Posted by mikesm

On the hardware side, the config should be fine, but I would go with 2 GB of ram, as it's dirt cheap and will allow you to aggressively use memory for disk buffer i/o, which will help with performance.

Fair enough. I agree, it is cheap.

Folks have reported some issues with the last 2 SATA ports on the ICH9R, so I might suggest getting a cheap 2 port SATA2 PCIE controller rather than using SATA5 and SATA6 for the array. Putting an optical disk on system disk on those ports should OK though.

Okay, even without those two, it would still leave 6 remaining SATA ports. (SATA1-SATA4 on the ICH9R, and GSATA1-GSATA2 on the Gigabyte chip -- I believe this is a Jmicron controller). That should be enough for my needs without needing to get another controller.

Also, that realtek GbE controller is a bit of a dog - either get a MB that has a Marvell onboard, or get a marvel or better yet intel PCI-E based GbE controller. It will do a lot better in being able to serve clients at very high data rates. Intel GbE PCIE's are fairly expensive, but can be found on ebay for a lot less. I got one for $29 shipped awhile back.

Thanks, I had a feeling that might be the case. Maybe I remember you saying something similar way earlier in the thread. I might take a look at the list of motherboards again.

System drive doesn't really matter, but stay away from the GP series form WD. They are not good for raid, but the non GP WD drive is fine.

Doh, it was consistently the cheapest in multiple stores near me. How about the next cheapest? 1000Gb 1Tb Samsung SATA2 32Mb Cache; HDD; Serial ATA300 Hard Drive HD103UJ. This one also explicitly states that it has staggered spin-up support which is comforting.

The PSU is more than adequate, as linux does staggered spinup by default, and the other components are pretty low power. The only thing to watch out for is that if you are not using a sata rack that provides it's own cooling, you need to make sure the disks have good cooling. The coolermaster stacker is is a great case for this, with lots of room for expansion, and is usually available for about $60 on their refurb store...

Good to know about Linux. I'm not sure I follow you on the cooling. The CM Centurion 5 I mentioned has (according to another description), "Excellent cooling is provided by the 120mm exhaust fan and the 80mm intake fan, and the chassis is equipped with a side air duct for further ventilation.". Is that not going to be adequate? Or when you say "sata rack" are you actually referring to some kind of special mounting inside the chassis and not the chassis itself?

Wow, I didn't know about their refurb site. Those prices for the Stacker are awesome, but it doesn't look like they'll ship to Australia.

As for filesystem, do you NOT want to go ext3. It has serious performance problems for the kind of operation media serving requires. Stick with XFS, and stick a UPS on the system to deal with power failures, though personally I never seen issues with it. XFS is really the way to go.

Good luck!

Hmm, I was hoping to avoid getting a UPS as well. While high performance would be ideal, I'm probably more concerned with data integrity. From some brief reading up on EXT3, I see the main performance issues are the journalling speed, and fragmentation. I'm not needing particularly high write speed (I won't be adding files that often, and I won't need to a high sustained transfer rate when I do), so the journalling shouldn't matter. I'm guessing the fragmentation is what turns you off EXT3 for your needs. I might do some testing with them both to see if EXT3 is fast enough for my needs (though I realise fragmentation issues are not likely to show up in testing with fresh volumes).

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by ScottK

Thanks for the detailed responses!

Fair enough. I agree, it is cheap.
Okay, even without those two, it would still leave 6 remaining SATA ports. (SATA1-SATA4 on the ICH9R, and GSATA1-GSATA2 on the Gigabyte chip -- I believe this is a Jmicron controller). That should be enough for my needs without needing to get another controller.
Thanks, I had a feeling that might be the case. Maybe I remember you saying something similar way earlier in the thread. I might take a look at the list of motherboards again.Doh, it was consistently the cheapest in multiple stores near me. How about the next cheapest? 1000Gb 1Tb Samsung SATA2 32Mb Cache; HDD; Serial ATA300 Hard Drive HD103UJ. This one also explicitly states that it has staggered spin-up support which is comforting.
Good to know about Linux. I'm not sure I follow you on the cooling. The CM Centurion 5 I mentioned has (according to another description), "Excellent cooling is provided by the 120mm exhaust fan and the 80mm intake fan, and the chassis is equipped with a side air duct for further ventilation.". Is that not going to be adequate? Or when you say "sata rack" are you actually referring to some kind of special mounting inside the chassis and not the chassis itself?

Wow, I didn't know about their refurb site. Those prices for the Stacker are awesome, but it doesn't look like they'll ship to Australia.

Hmm, I was hoping to avoid getting a UPS as well. While high performance would be ideal, I'm probably more concerned with data integrity. From some brief reading up on EXT3, I see the main performance issues are the journalling speed, and fragmentation. I'm not needing particularly high write speed (I won't be adding files that often, and I won't need to a high sustained transfer rate when I do), so the journalling shouldn't matter. I'm guessing the fragmentation is what turns you off EXT3 for your needs. I might do some testing with them both to see if EXT3 is fast enough for my needs (though I realise fragmentation issues are not likely to show up in testing with fresh volumes).

Sorry, I didn't notice this one had the extra jmicron ports. Yes, they should work just fine then.

The PCI-E gigabit controller should be able to be found for cheap, so unless you find another motherboard with the exact config you are looking for, I'd probably just keep your MB choice and get the NIC.

I am unfamiliar with that case, but what you care about is the way the ventilation of the hard drives section is done. Sometimes a case may have decent airflow, but not have it oriented well with the drives. Other times drive cooling is designed into it. For example, a P180 case I have has a HDD cage that can house 4 drives, and it's in a tunnel seperate from the rest of the case, with a 120mm fan blowing air over the drives, and then being exhausted out via the PSU fan. It keeps the disks nice and cool. With 6 disks, you just need to be careful unless you have a cage that provides localized cooling for the drives.

Yeah, the GP drives are cheaper in general, those discount prices here in the states sometimes have specials on other vendors drives that are cheaper. The GP drive runs at speeds varying from 5400 rpm to 7200 rpm, which is not what you want in a server. Plus, if one drive is spinning at 5400, and the other at 7200, they will not be in sync, which is an issue for raid. So I would recommend against them.

You can try and benchmark the array with ext3, and then go back and try xfs before you put files on it, but in any case, I think it's foolish not to put such a unit on UPS. A sudden power loss may result in a mess even with ext3 if it hits at the wrong time. You don't need a big UPS, just one that provides enough time for the system to flush the write buffers and take things down in an orderly manner. 5 mins of power should be enough, and that's not a big UPS.