Recommended NAS?

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by KJake

It typically does work just fine when you use the same hardware. Mike's point was that I would be moving the drives to different controllers (nVidia to Sillion Image) and that if you try to do that with hardware raid controllers it won't work...which I confirmed in my reply. I moved drives from an NV raid to a HighPoint and the data was history.

True but then I wouldn't expect it to work on different manufactures anyway for a hardware solution. I just wanted to make sure he wasn't trying to say it couldn't be done in any configuration with hardware RAID because I just did it successfully.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

True but then I wouldn't expect it to work on different manufactures anyway for a hardware solution. I just wanted to make sure he wasn't trying to say it couldn't be done in any configuration with hardware RAID because I just did it successfully.

If your purpose in having a RAID is to protect from the inevitable drive failure (mechanical failure or head crash), then simple mirrored pairs (RAID1), though inefficient in cost per byte, do allow you to move the drives to different controllers, since they're not in a proprietary format (striped). You do lose the status of mirrors-are-in-synch, because this status is in a non-standard format. But you can take either of the disk and use it alone, or take the pair and use a new RAID1 controller to re-synch them (dupe one to another).

My $75 ASUS motherboard supports 4 SATA drives and this can be two mirrored pairs. I use one pair of 500GB, partitioned as 50GB for the OS, and the rest for video in 64K blocks.

That's my rationale for what I have. RAID5 is nice, but, it's all proprietary formatting and exceeds my needs.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by stevech

If your purpose in having a RAID is to protect from the inevitable drive failure (mechanical failure or head crash), then simple mirrored pairs (RAID1), though inefficient in cost per byte, do allow you to move the drives to different controllers, since they're not in a proprietary format (striped). You do lose the status of mirrors-are-in-synch, because this status is in a non-standard format. But you can take either of the disk and use it alone, or take the pair and use a new RAID1 controller to re-synch them (dupe one to another).

My $75 ASUS motherboard supports 4 SATA drives and this can be two mirrored pairs. I use one pair of 500GB, partitioned as 50GB for the OS, and the rest for video in 64K blocks.

That's my rationale for what I have. RAID5 is nice, but, it's all proprietary formatting and exceeds my needs.

Can't really afford enough drives to do that and the other reason I use Raid5 is to consolidate that space into one drive (at least up to the 2TB that Windows XP/2000 will allow). I got started just before 200GB drives were the sweet spot - so I have a lot of smaller drives(200&250GB) that I still use. No reason to upgrade them if I don't need to. Although I am slowly because I needed more space anyway. I went with Windows because I have a few Windows only apps that I have running on them as well as serving as storage devices. The two 9500S controllers were purchased on ebay at less then half the new price and I didn't want to chance a cheaper brand. One of them should be a new OEM version too - looked it anyway.

[stevech]

those 500GB SATA 2 drives are around $100-110 now.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by stevech

those 500GB SATA 2 drives are around $100-110 now.

Yep! I just bought 5 at Fry's. That's what I've been adding to my arrays so that I don't run out of space as soon.

[toricred]

I've got an Nforce4 939 mobo (Foxconn 6150BK8MC-KRSHN2) with an x2 3800+ and 2GB of RAM. I'm assuming what you're basically doing is running a recent linux (I'll be using Ubuntu 7.0.4 probably) and creating an LVM with the various disks then running Samba. I don't plan on doing any RAID5, but maybe RAID 0. Do I have this basically correct?

[KJake]

Originally Posted by toricred

I've got an Nforce4 939 mobo (Foxconn 6150BK8MC-KRSHN2) with an x2 3800+ and 2GB of RAM. I'm assuming what you're basically doing is running a recent linux (I'll be using Ubuntu 7.0.4 probably) and creating an LVM with the various disks then running Samba. I don't plan on doing any RAID5, but maybe RAID 0. Do I have this basically correct?

I'm using Ubuntu 7.04. I have 6 drives in RAID5 for now and will be adding another RAID5 set tonight (of 4 disks). nForce SATA ports are supported, but not for port multiplying. I would read some of the posts on Page 3 if you haven't already for Samba tuning advise. Mike and I are using EVMS to manage the LVM sets, but yes, that's basically what's going on.

I'll probably be posting back here tonight since I'm really sketchy on how to add another RAID5 volume, but it is supposed to be possible

[KJake]

Originally Posted by KJake

I'll probably be posting back here tonight since I'm really sketchy on how to add another RAID5 volume, but it is supposed to be possible

Holy crap that was easy. Mike, many thanks to you for turning me on to EVMS. I had to use both ports on the new Syba card because the onboard 3132 freaked out and would cause the system not to POST fully. But once that was resolved, I booted up, added the new drives (DOS segment, LVM partition, MD region, expanded LVM container), and then expanded the EVMS volume and viola!

Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
4.4T 1.5T 3.0T 33% /export

[toricred]

Where did you guys get the port multipliers?

[KJake]

Originally Posted by toricred

Where did you guys get the port multipliers?

These are what I bought:
http://www.addonics.com/products/hos...er/ad5sapm.asp

I'm pretty sure that is what Mike uses too.

The latest patch for the 2.6.22-rc6 Linux kernel has been tested with the following controller chipsets:
* Silicon Image 3124
* Silicon Image 3132
* Intel ICH9R
* JMicron JMB360
* JMicron JMB363

and works with the following port multiplier chipsets:
* Silicon Image 3726
* Silicon Image 4726
* Silicon Image 5744

I personally use the 3132 controller and that Addonics Port Multiplier uses the 3726 chipset.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by KJake

These are what I bought:
http://www.addonics.com/products/hos...er/ad5sapm.asp

I'm pretty sure that is what Mike uses too.

The latest patch for the 2.6.22-rc6 Linux kernel has been tested with the following controller chipsets:
* Silicon Image 3124
* Silicon Image 3132
* Intel ICH9R
* JMicron JMB360
* JMicron JMB363

and works with the following port multiplier chipsets:
* Silicon Image 3726
* Silicon Image 4726
* Silicon Image 5744

I personally use the 3132 controller and that Addonics Port Multiplier uses the 3726 chipset.

Yup, I got mine from addonics too. They make nice 5in3 racks also. The addonics one is resold through coolgear and other places. Almost all the standalone multipliers are SI3726 based, which works great with Linux.

Any AHCI controller should work fine. The late model nvidia SATA ports are supposed to be AHCI too. If the kernel sees nv_sata, it's not AHCI.

I'm glad you like EVMS. One you get the hang of it, you realize just how powerful it is. And it works on the filesystem live. Really nice.

All this stuff is overkill, but I'm used to working with datacenter tools, and I like powerful storage at home. Overkill is really cool..

Kjake, how is your performance these days? What's your local I/O look like? Is Samba back at 50 MB/s?

Also, on your Vista issue with network performance, look at this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=881089
What a POS...

Thanks,
mike

[KJake]

Originally Posted by mikesm

Kjake, how is your performance these days? What's your local I/O look like? Is Samba back at 50 MB/s?

I haven't run another IOZone test since the last one and it was outstanding. The new md is still syncing (40% now), so I'll wait to test again. Samba is 50+ MB/s for sure...just not on Vista because of it's odd networking. I just have to make sure that I basically have all other network/internet apps closed and then I'll get 50+ MB/s with it. Otherwise, I get 10MB/s...which is normal for CIFS shares :-P hehe

Originally Posted by mikesm

Also, on your Vista issue with network performance, look at this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=881089
What a POS...

I've upped my receive buffers to 2048 from 512, maybe that'll help. [edit]nope, no help there...iTunes playing music and Samba [Vista] sucking. I can live with it. My main concern was for my SageTV clients (MVPs and client PC in the living room). I just want to make sure that the server and clients can stream HD across the network. Now I know that I'll be able too, but even my gigabit is going to be saturated I think.[/edit]

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by KJake

I haven't run another IOZone test since the last one and it was outstanding. The new md is still syncing (40% now), so I'll wait to test again. Samba is 50+ MB/s for sure...just not on Vista because of it's odd networking. I just have to make sure that I basically have all other network/internet apps closed and then I'll get 50+ MB/s with it. Otherwise, I get 10MB/s...which is normal for CIFS shares :-P hehe


I've upped my receive buffers to 2048 from 512, maybe that'll help. [edit]nope, no help there...iTunes playing music and Samba [Vista] sucking. I can live with it. My main concern was for my SageTV clients (MVPs and client PC in the living room). I just want to make sure that the server and clients can stream HD across the network. Now I know that I'll be able too, but even my gigabit is going to be saturated I think.[/edit]

Cool. I wish MSFT would fix the network performance problem. It's going to cause a lot of people to chase their tail looking for problems with their NAS servers.

Glad performance is acceptable. :-)

PS EVMS really is the best way to deal with LVM. The command line tools for LVM don't make it easy. Suse has a LVM graphical setup tool which makes it OK, but I find EVMS a nice one stop shot for managing lvm and raid arrays...

Thanks,
mike

[KJake]

Originally Posted by mikesm

Cool. I wish MSFT would fix the network performance problem. It's going to cause a lot of people to chase their tail looking for problems with their NAS servers.

Yeah :-/
I also just disabled MCE from starting and turned off TCP Scaling and rebooted, no changed. Pretty borked still.

[KJake]

Here's a silly question...my SATA cables had right-angle connectors on them and they were short enough that it made it diffucult to connect them to the 4 new drives I just put in...so my solution was to flip the drives upside down and then I didn't have to twist the SATA connectors around and they reached much better.

Is it OK to have them upside down? There is still equal room between them, but I'm seeing from their sensors that they're running hotter than the original 6 that are right-side up. Now, the 6 drives are up front with a fan blowing on them too. The air is supposed to be drawn across all the drives with the PSU being behind the drives...but I'm a little worried.

The original 6-500G drives are averaging 41C and the new 4-750G drives are averaging 55C and 60C is listed as their "danger zone".

Maybe this is just because the disks are syncing right now?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by KJake

Here's a silly question...my SATA cables had right-angle connectors on them and they were short enough that it made it diffucult to connect them to the 4 new drives I just put in...so my solution was to flip the drives upside down and then I didn't have to twist the SATA connectors around and they reached much better.

Is it OK to have them upside down? There is still equal room between them, but I'm seeing from their sensors that they're running hotter than the original 6 that are right-side up. Now, the 6 drives are up front with a fan blowing on them too. The air is supposed to be drawn across all the drives with the PSU being behind the drives...but I'm a little worried.

The original 6-500G drives are averaging 41C and the new 4-750G drives are averaging 55C and 60C is listed as their "danger zone".

Maybe this is just because the disks are syncing right now?

up/down shouldn't make that much a difference, unless they are in a caddy/cartridge style holder that covers up one side. In that case, they need to be in the proper orientation.

They probably are hot due to load, but what kind of case/ventilation/hotswap rack are they in. It's VERY important drives have excellent airflow over them.

My 5in3 hotswap racks tend to keep them pretty cool, even when ambient is high. Noisy though...

Thanks,
Mike

[KJake]

Originally Posted by mikesm

They probably are hot due to load, but what kind of case/ventilation/hotswap rack are they in. It's VERY important drives have excellent airflow over them.

I'm thinking it is a combination of the two. I notice now that mounting them this way ruins the airflow design of the case. I'm ordering longer cables now [edit]Also ordered a fan to replace the stock one. The stock fan doesn't seem to push much air. New one pushes 114CFM.[/edit].

Here's the inside of the case:
http://www.lian-li.com/product/20070315034037.jpg

[KJake]

Originally Posted by KJake

I'm thinking it is a combination of the two. I notice now that mounting them this way ruins the airflow design of the case. I'm ordering longer cables now.

Here's the inside of the case:
http://www.lian-li.com/product/20070315034037.jpg

Ghetto cooling to the rescue...took both sides of the case off and put a little, but powerful fan right in-front of the drives...their sensor thinks they're cool already

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by KJake

I'm thinking it is a combination of the two. I notice now that mounting them this way ruins the airflow design of the case. I'm ordering longer cables now [edit]Also ordered a fan to replace the stock one. The stock fan doesn't seem to push much air. New one pushes 114CFM.[/edit].

Here's the inside of the case:
http://www.lian-li.com/product/20070315034037.jpg

Ok, I see the problem. You're not using a hot-swap rack, so there isn't localized cooling over the drives.

Yes, putting a massive fan on the front intake should do the trick. It's a lot of airflow that's important in that case. Does the PSU have a strong fan on it? If it's software controlled, you may need to up the speed too. You'll need to also try and get a good seal between the lower compartment and the upper one. If the lower intake fan creates overpressure because the PSU can't exhaust it, you may get airflow diverted into the upper chamber if there is an open path.

Thanks,
Mike

[KJake]

Originally Posted by mikesm

Ok, I see the problem. You're not using a hot-swap rack, so there isn't localized cooling over the drives.

Yes, putting a massive fan on the front intake should do the trick. It's a lot of airflow that's important in that case. Does the PSU have a strong fan on it? If it's software controlled, you may need to up the speed too. You'll need to also try and get a good seal between the lower compartment and the upper one. If the lower intake fan creates overpressure because the PSU can't exhaust it, you may get airflow diverted into the upper chamber if there is an open path.

Thanks,
Mike

Yeah, the air is supposed to move across the hard drives tho from the front of the case to the rear and exit via the PSU. I just don't think the front intake fan is all that powerful and I've screwed up the airflow design by putting them upside down.

PSU is rated for 85CFM, but I think it slows down if it isn't hot in the case...
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/produc...ru/w0129ru.asp