License Keys and Privacy

[highlands]

I have a problem with the way Sage registers the product using a license key AND user's full name.

Why should a user's FULL NAME be encoded in the license? Does anybody else have a privacy concern with this procedure?

[nielm]

And when you buy a licence, you give them you full name, email address *and* credit card details?! They might use this information to... uh... charge your credit card and email you a licence key!

It only becomes a privicy concern if you share/sell your licence to a third party, both of which are not permitted under the licence agreement.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by nielm

And when you buy a licence, you give them you full name, email address *and* credit card details?! They might use this information to... uh... charge your credit card and email you a licence key!

It only becomes a privicy concern if you share/sell your licence to a third party, both of which are not permitted under the licence agreement.

I agree. I have no problems with this. This isn't the only key I have purchased in the last couple of years that requires my full name to be entered with the key. *thinks about all the business cards floating around the US with his name, phone number, cell, email address*. Maybe I should stop giving out my business cards?

[highlands]

If I were to share my license with anybody then that would be a piracy concern, not privacy.

I give my name and credit card info to lots of companies when I buy their goods. But does that mean they should [I]hack[I] my name into the product? Would I let a car company etch my name across the windshield just because they already know who I am?

When you have elevtronic products, embedded information can always be hacked and used/misused. In case of Sage TV, not only data can be collected about my viewing habits, it can even be associated with my name. Would I want Sage TV, or some other entity, know about what I watch, what I record, what I convert, etc.? Can anyone assure us that this data is not being collected, or that it will not be collected in the future?
I'm afraid Sage is playing fast and loose with our private information.

Think about it.

[jdamore]

Originally Posted by nielm

And when you buy a licence, you give them you full name, email address *and* credit card details?! They might use this information to... uh... charge your credit card and email you a licence key!

It only becomes a privicy concern if you share/sell your licence to a third party, both of which are not permitted under the licence agreement.

I also agree, theres not much you can do with just a name.

Theres lots of names in the phone book and they're just tossed in people's front porch!

[sainswor99]

So give them another name when you purchase the software; tell them it's a gift for a friend.

Originally Posted by highlands

If I were to share my license with anybody then that would be a piracy concern, not privacy.

I give my name and credit card info to lots of companies when I buy their goods. But does that mean they should [I]hack[I] my name into the product? Would I let a car company etch my name across the windshield just because they already know who I am?

When you have elevtronic products, embedded information can always be hacked and used/misused. In case of Sage TV, not only data can be collected about my viewing habits, it can even be associated with my name. Would I want Sage TV, or some other entity, know about what I watch, what I record, what I convert, etc.? Can anyone assure us that this data is not being collected, or that it will not be collected in the future?
I'm afraid Sage is playing fast and loose with our private information.

Think about it.

Check the privacy policy: http://www.sagetv.com/privacy.html

Methinks you should unplug your computer and throw it away. If you're that concerned with privacy, a shack in Montana is calling you....

[highlands]

Originally Posted by sainswor99

So give them another name when you purchase the software; tell them it's a gift for a friend.

Brilliant! How's another name going to get on my credit card, then?

I see you are a trusting "community" and are quite happy leaving your front doors unlocked. I'm not. I'll return the software, which, this issue notwithstanding, is a terrefic product with enormous potential. I'll move back into my virtual shack in Montana, as you suggest, where I can have a good view of sheep walking off the cliff.

[highlands]

Originally Posted by sainswor99

Check the privacy policy: http://www.sagetv.com/privacy.html

Thanks for the link sainswor99. I hadn't read it. The only thing missing from this privacy policy is any respect for privacy. It's disgraceful. You can drive a truck through this policy.

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by highlands

Brilliant! How's another name going to get on my credit card, then?

Two separate issues; payment and your name on the license. You pay as yourself, but you're buying software for your friend Guy N. Montana. His name is associated with the license; you're responsible for the credit card.

I see you are a trusting "community" and are quite happy leaving your front doors unlocked. I'm not. I'll return the software, which, this issue notwithstanding, is a terrefic product with enormous potential. I'll move back into my virtual shack in Montana, as you suggest, where I can have a good view of sheep walking off the cliff.

If it bothers you that much, then you're (almost) doing the right thing. Complain to the manufacturer (not the user community). If they can't satisfy your complaint, return the software.

I can understand your basic concerns, but there are SO many other ways that your viewing activity could be monitored, it seems a bit over the top to be concerned about something like Sage.

[highlands]

Originally Posted by sainswor99

If it bothers you that much, then you're (almost) doing the right thing. Complain to the manufacturer (not the user community). If they can't satisfy your complaint, return the software.

I thought I bring it up here first see if anyone else shares my concerns; just to gauge if my time for a shack in Montana has arrived or not. Absent any dittos, I did request a refund from the manufacturer.

Originally Posted by sainswor99

I can understand your basic concerns, but there are SO many other ways that your viewing activity could be monitored, it seems a bit over the top to be concerned about something like Sage.

You are right, in a pragmatic sense. There ARE so many other ways my activities can be monitored. With all due respect, somehow that doesn't comfort me so much as freighten me. I'm an old timer who's been on this internet since 1993. I've watched privacy and neutrality erode bit by bit. I believe the only way to protect our privacy is to take a stand. When users comply, game is over. It's over and done with. I am a dinasour!

[Opus4]

Privacy concerns have been dealt with before around here. The only way you could possibly be tracked is when you contact SageTV's servers to update the EPG info. So, here is some info that came from a SageTV co-founder, regarding contacting the EPG server to update your TV listings:

Originally Posted by dkardatzke

The information we collect from your SageTV system when you hit the server is hardware specific. For example what tuners you are using, how many and other information that helps us with support situations. It's also helpful to know how many users are using single tuner verse multi-tuners and how many are using SD vs. HD when making decisions about future features for the product.

As far as show information, this is housed locally on your PC in the Wiz database and that information is not sent back to us so we can't tell how many of you enjoy a late night program on Cinemax compared to those of you that enjoy the occasional episode of Barney. If we ever did any tracking or reporting we would definitely notify you and this would be considered a major change to our privacy policy.

Hope that helps.
Dan

It is up to you whether you choose to believe that or not. I can only give you the info; it is up to you to decide what to do with it. I don't understand the issue about using the name + key as the registration info on your PC because if you really think they are tracking you, despite the policy statement and additional clarification, then they wouldn't need your name as part of the license, since that license would already be associated with a purchase.

BTW: You should probably complain to the forum software developers too, though. Your IP address is tracked when you sign up and when you post. For your protection, I deleted your other forum account, where you signed up using what looks like your full name as part of the email address right before you signed up for the account you used to post here. I realize you could have made up that name, so this might not actually offer any protection, but we allow only a single forum account per person anyway.

- Andy

[nielm]

Originally Posted by highlands

But does that mean they should [I]hack[I] my name into the product

um, I would hardly call saving a licence key hacking... and it is not exactly easy to retrieve.

Would I let a car company etch my name across the windshield just because they already know who I am?

Effectively they already have... the VIN is on display, and can surely be linked backed to you...

I am sorry, but if you are that worried about your privacy, there are a many other places on your PC where your personal info can be unobtrusively obtained by a malicious program, you just have to decide who you trust, or unplug your PC now...

(Do you have any IE toolbars installed, any firefox plugins? All of these have full access to everything you can read and everything you type into any web page)

[TakeFlight]

I had to check my calendar and make sure it wasn't April 1st.

[highlands]

I realize now I am alone in my argument. I do not hope to change anyone's mind at this point, much less Sage TV polict. Neverthless, I'll reply to some comments for argument's sake.

Originally Posted by nielm

Effectively they already have... the VIN is on display, and can surely be linked backed to you...

Good point. Except that there is a crucial distinction: a VIN is akin to a license key. MY full name is different story. I have no problem if a company i buy something from cross liknks my VIN or serial no. or license key with my name in their own internal databases. My problem is when they hack- as in brand, or blazon my NAME into the actual product. If my name was etched in my car window next to the VIN, then that would be a different privacy concern, wouldn't it?

Originally Posted by Opus4

BTW: You should probably complain to the forum software developers too, though. Your IP address is tracked when you sign up and when you post. For your protection, I deleted your other forum account, where you signed up using what looks like your full name as part of the email address right before you signed up for the account you used to post here. I realize you could have made up that name, so this might not actually offer any protection, but we allow only a single forum account per person anyway.

- Andy

This is a gem. Thanks Andy for reassuring me how much the company and the founder respect my privacy while revealing just how meticousely you've been tracking my IP's in this forum, monitoring my activities, etc. "for my protection". I feel better already.

Originally Posted by TakeFlight

I had to check my calendar and make sure it wasn't April 1st.

Check the year. It's 1984.

[MeInMaui]

I, for one, welcome our new SageTV overlords.

Edit: Sorry, I thought this was /. for a minute there.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

I, for one, welcome our new SageTV overlords.

Awesome!

Oh. Wait. Do you really mean that, or are you just saying that because you're worried you might get tracked down? I see you are in Hawaii, but there seems to be some uncertainty about the exact location at the moment.

- Andy

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Awesome!

Oh. Wait. Do you really mean that, or are you just saying that because you're worried you might get tracked down? I see you are in Hawaii, but there seems to be some uncertainty about the exact location at the moment.

- Andy

That's because I'm currently hiding in a concrete bunker surrounded by a faraday cage. All of my communications are being tight-beamed by via a laser link to a secure location, and then relayed 4815162342 times across 88 countries. What I want to know is how did you ever figure out I'm in Hawaii?

Aloha,
Mike

[KJake]

Where's my tinfoil hat?! They're out to get us!

[sakker]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

I, for one, welcome our new SageTV overlords.

Edit: Sorry, I thought this was /. for a minute there.

Haha, thanks for a good laugh.

You could have also said " In Soviet Russia... "
yeah yeah, you know the rest

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

That's because I'm currently hiding in a concrete bunker surrounded by a faraday cage. All of my communications are being tight-beamed by via a laser link to a secure location, and then relayed 4815162342 times across 88 countries. What I want to know is how did you ever figure out I'm in Hawaii?

I have my (undocumented) ways. I refuse to tell you how I knew that, lest you manage to cover up one more clue to your identity. You can sit in your bunker, but you can't hide!

- Andy