License Keys and Privacy

[AWS]

I really wouldn't say this individual is a "paranoid nut job". I disagree there. Frankly, I don't even like the supermarket discount cards you have you assign to your name/address. I give fake info there all the time.

I see his point and agree there is something there, but the amount of info harvested from trying to hack a SageTV install CD Key would be not worth what you'd get in return. It's like eatting crab! Too much work for the amount of return!

If all the possible data being returned from a hacked CD Key is the name, I can think of 5 easier ways to gleam that same info from either a cookie, the registy for 'RegOwner', various software registration keys in the registy, etc.

[highlands]

Thanks Stanger. I did look up some threads on privacy. They do look like they have more teeth than this one, so I'll read them.
But the ferocity of attacks on anyone who even questions Sage is strange. To quote from one of the threads there "Originally Posted by joe123
I sometimes get the feelings that I may be in a cult here."

It is also good in that it shows there is an enthusiastic user base here.

My comments are repeatedly misrepresented here as if I objected to license keys or giving out my credit card info and name. IT IS NOT SO.

I wondered about the neccesity of pairing my real name with my license key, and whe=ther it would be branded int the copy. I also worried about the larger issue of VIEWING HABITS being collected by the software, which, to me, would be a serious concern (ala Tivo).

[Menehune]

Originally Posted by highlands

I must admit I'm more sensitive to Sage because the information involved has to do with what I do in my home in my spare time. We have a more intimate relationship with Sage than most other software.

I am much more concerned about my ISP's logs of my web browsing and my billing statements than I am with entering my name in a screen while installing a piece of software.

There are telephone whitepage search engines online that display much more sensitive data than just my name. I entered in my name and state and was shown the last five addresses I lived in the last ten years, immediate family members and street addresses. Perfect information for stalkers to have. That was the "free" search. I didn't buy for a subscription to see what other data is available.

Heck, I discovered that the publicly domain, free, online death records for California show DOB, DOD, SS# and full names. An excellent resource since I was attempting to determine when my grandfather passed. But, a perfect database of SS#s for identity thieves to steal. The records are only available up to 2000 so I would assume those SS#s are flagged as dead by the SS administration anyway and useless.

I tried obsessing about privacy and such over the last two decades that I've been online, but the returns have not justified energy expenditures since the data is being released anyway. You need to pick your fights and focus your energy on ones you can win.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by highlands

I wondered about the neccesity of pairing my real name with my license key, and whe=ther it would be branded int the copy. I also worried about the larger issue of VIEWING HABITS being collected by the software, which, to me, would be a serious concern (ala Tivo).

This has been answered, but you don't seem to want to believe it since you keep bringing it up.

1) No one here knows if the name is stored with the license info because it isn't readily retreivable. If you forget your license, for example, you can't retrieve it from your system; you have to contact SageTV or the place of purchase to have the info sent to you again. So, for argument's sake, let's pretend the name is with the key... what does it matter? It would be a lot harder to retrieve it than some hacker getting into your email and other files.

The license and name isn't even displayed in SageTV anywhere. I've got several programs that do so -- example: Photoshop includes my name, business name, and what looks like my license number on the splash screen at startup. All my friends will see my name if they come over and I start PS while they are here! It has been pointed out that this same info is easily available all over your PC, while SageTV hides all registration info, yet you think SageTV is the security risk?

2) It was already pointed out that SageTV isn't tracking personally identifiable info, nor are they tracking your viewing history info.

Most people in this thread just don't understand what your issue continues to be.

Exactly what is still unclear? Your questions were answered, but you persist with the same things, so I'm beginning to wonder if you don't really care what answer you get; you just want to start and continue an argument.

You've also pointed to the privacy policy page & then posted your concerns here. Since you say you read that closely, you should have noticed that it includes an email address to contact with questions about the policy.

- Andy

[Menehune]

I think you may be able to replace your "viewing history file" (the win.biz) regularly with a copy of the 'clean' database file created when the program got installed. That way your viewing history is constantly being cleaned out. Intelligent recording and your watched programs database would probably not work correctly.

I wonder if the manual records are saved in the win.biz? Maybe you can not use the favorites feature (which tracks the viewed programs and your viewing history) and make every recording a manual record. Not as convenient as favorites and the software will function just like a VCR-sage will only record what you tell it to.

[nielm]

Originally Posted by Menehune

I wonder if your manual records are saved in the win.biz?

yes, and the history of watched liveTV, and watched intelligent recordings...

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by highlands

I wondered about the neccesity of pairing my real name with my license key, and whether it would be branded int the copy.

If you had simply wondered politely "Does Sage store my name anywhere?" this thread might have taken a very different course.

But that's not what happened. Instead, you started by assuming, without evidence, that your name was in fact being stored and that Sage was "playing fast and loose with our private information." It was those unfounded accusations, not the overall issue of privacy, that got people riled up.

I'm all for vigorous defense of privacy rights, but I don't see how crying wolf where no wrongdoing has been demonstrated advances that cause. Your righteous anger should be directed against real bad guys rather than imaginary ones.

[highlands]

Dear Opus4,
if most people don't understand what my issue is, why don't we limit the discussion to those who do, and spare everyone the snide comments? It's a discussion and will run its course. Is that OK?

As for having answered my questions, is this an answer to anything:

Originally Posted by Opus4

1) No one here knows if the name is stored with the license info because it isn't readily retreivable. - Andy

Here's a simple hypotethical with a yes or no answer:

If I watch a porno tonight on my TV, will Sage know I watched it? If tomorrow, my boss, or the government, or some church guy shows up at Sage with a court subpoena and asks for that info, will Sage give it to them?

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by highlands

Dear Opus4,
Here's a simple hypotethical with a yes or no answer:

If I watch a porno tonight on my TV, will Sage know I watched it? If tomorrow, my boss, or the government, or some church guy shows up at Sage with a court subpoena and asks for that info, will Sage give it to them?

Actually, your yes or no answer is a bit more complex than that, so I'll try to break it down as simply as I can:

1. Sage (the program) knows what you watch. It's the design. Now, it doesn't know who you are, since you can be any name registered to the program (which I believe was your original concern).

2. Sage (the company) has issued a statement saying that they do not now know what you are watching. It's up to you to determine if you trust the company. I do, and others do. However, ultimately (and I'll bold this for emphasis) you're asking the wrong people. This is a user community; I don't think anyone here can tell you if Sage is spying on you. If you think they are, go ask them.

At this point, this thread is moving toward being little more than an instigation for an argument, which can be fun, but is ultimately pointless.

[highlands]

Thank you. That sums it up.

Originally Posted by sainswor99

Actually, your yes or no answer is a bit more complex than that, so I'll try to break it down as simply as I can:

1. Sage (the program) knows what you watch. It's the design. Now, it doesn't know who you are, since you can be any name registered to the program (which I believe was your original concern).

2. Sage (the company) has issued a statement saying that they do not now know what you are watching. It's up to you to determine if you trust the company. I do, and others do. However, ultimately (and I'll bold this for emphasis) you're asking the wrong people. This is a user community; I don't think anyone here can tell you if Sage is spying on you. If you think they are, go ask them.

At this point, this thread is moving toward being little more than an instigation for an argument, which can be fun, but is ultimately pointless.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by highlands

If I watch a porno tonight on my TV, will Sage know I watched it? If tomorrow, my boss, or the government, or some church guy shows up at Sage with a court subpoena and asks for that info, will Sage give it to them?

We're right back to my basic question above: what part of the previous answers about all this do you not understand? This has been answered repeatedly, yet you just asked it again.

My very first post in this thread answered your question with an old clarification from SageTV's cofounder. Did you not read it? You indicated that you did. Go read it again. Then, before you ask the same question again, read the answer again.

I'm sorry now that I removed your second forum account so quickly. I should have left it to see if you planned to use it to post 'second opinions' from someone else presenting the same view as you, as has happened on this forum before. This thread could have taken on a very interesting turn after that. Oh well, live and learn, I suppose.

BTW: My very first post in this thread answered your question with an old clarification from SageTV's cofounder. Did you not read it? You indicated that you did. Go read it again. Then, before you ask the same question again, read the answer again.

- Andy

[nielm]

If tomorrow, my boss, or the government, or some church guy shows up at Sage with a court subpoena and asks for that info, will Sage give it to them?

I really worry about the US if a boss or church guy can get a subpoena to see if you watched a porn movie last night...

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by highlands

But the ferocity of attacks on anyone who even questions Sage is strange.

"Ferocity of attacks"? You haven't been online long, have you?
Show me "ferocity" in this thread!

If porn is transmitted and received legally (e.g. via SageTV), I can't see that anyone would give a toss. But that departs slightly from the original key/name argument.

[Mahoney]

I don't even like the supermarket discount cards you have you assign to your name/address. I give fake info there all the time.

Neither do I. Because I know they keep that info on central databases to allow them to profile me. Which is why I don't have a supermarket loyalty card.

That, however, is a flipping mile away from Sage putting my name in a license that states that I'm allowed to run a bit of software! A license on my own computer. When they don't store any info about my behaviour beyond the fact that I've bought their software. It's about as unobtrusive as you can get.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by Mahoney

Because I know they keep that info on central databases to allow them to profile me. Which is why I don't have a supermarket loyalty card.

Except, of course, I don't buy anything at the supermarket that I need to be secretive about, and don't shop at places I'm not allowed to be, so if they send targeted offers and give me savings, it's not really a big deal...

If I shopped once a week with my mistress and once with my wife, I wouldn't have a loyalty card.

[mattdcknsn]

For the loyalty cards, just use fake info.

Address: 1313 Mockingbird lane
Phone: (area code) 555-1212

I have yet to be at a supermarket where that phone number doesn't work.

Originally Posted by Mahoney

Neither do I. Because I know they keep that info on central databases to allow them to profile me. Which is why I don't have a supermarket loyalty card.

That, however, is a flipping mile away from Sage putting my name in a license that states that I'm allowed to run a bit of software! A license on my own computer. When they don't store any info about my behaviour beyond the fact that I've bought their software. It's about as unobtrusive as you can get.

[Opus4]

Or, you could do what someone has been doing every time they applied for a mortgage over the past few years... make up a phone number and always use that same 'fake' number. Someone else (me) will get all the sales calls from every other mortgage company that buys lists of recent mortgage applications. Luckily, I never answer my phone any more & my answering machine can be programmed to play the "this number is no longer in service" message for specific numbers. That seems better than telling everyone that Lydia doesn't live here.

- Andy

[Jere_Jones]

Originally Posted by Opus4

my answering machine can be programmed to play the "this number is no longer in service" message for specific numbers.

I don't mean to hijack this very entertaining thread, but...

How, oh please tell me how, do you do that?!?!?!?

Jere

[AWS]

Originally Posted by Opus4

... play the "this number is no longer in service" message for specific numbers. ...

- Andy

Can you post that MP3 (hopefully DRM-free ) in the Downloads section?

So to recap - what is Sage doing with my name again?

Kidding.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Jere_Jones

I don't mean to hijack this very entertaining thread, but...

Riiiight... sure you don't...

How, oh please tell me how, do you do that?!?!?!?

With the best answering machine ever made (that I know about). I just hope it never breaks, because unless there is a new model somewhere that can do this, nothing like it is for sale now. I mentioned it in this old thread split from some old discussion -- a GE model 2-9992, which I bought nearly 10 years ago. It lets you program responses by caller ID.

And, no, there is NO way I would sell it.

Originally Posted by AWS

Can you post that MP3 (hopefully DRM-free ) in the Downloads section?

I just dialed a number that didn't exist & recorded the response over the phone.

So to recap - what is Sage doing with my name again?

I don't know... what made you think of this & who are you, anyway?

- Andy