What are people doing for ...

[PGPfan]

This sounds like a fantastic idea! Can't help much with coding (Studio learning 'curve' is more like a cliff for me) but would be happy to donate hosting, or funds, or something else to help get this off the ground. FWIW, I'm also a devoted unRaid user as well.

-PGPfan

[Brent]

mikehaney,
I've been thinking about your post and I like your idea - a lot. I have a few questions about the concept though:

• What media would this be for? Movies, TV Shows, Music? anything else?
• I'm currently using DVD Profiler for my movie collection, export the DVD Profiler database into a file, then import into SageMC. This works fine for me except that it doesn't pull in or use the date added, release date fields for sorting and organizing. I guess this thing you're talking about would replace the need for DVD Profiler for movies?
• What kinds of things would you need help on? I can help with documentation, testing and that sort of thing, but no coding skills so let me know if you want/need help.

Thanks!

[mikehaney]

Originally Posted by Brent

mikehaney,
I've been thinking about your post and I like your idea - a lot. I have a few questions about the concept though:

Good questions. Let me tackle these one by one.

[*]What media would this be for? Movies, TV Shows, Music? anything else?

All of the above, plus photos, and anything else we can think of that makes sense. The architecture will be extensible, so that if we think of something useful to add later, we can write a plugin for it.

For example, I've always wanted something like My Movies/Movie Night that helps me organize my home movies (My Home Movies?). Of course there would be no central metadata site to get that info from, but if it could make it simple to catalog my videos (take a screenshot, suck the date/time from the timecode, add a description, apply tags, etc.) and present them in an organized, searchable fashion, then it would probably be worth the effort for me to organize the tens of hours of camcorder footage of the kids.

[*]I'm currently using DVD Profiler for my movie collection, export the DVD Profiler database into a file, then import into SageMC. This works fine for me except that it doesn't pull in or use the date added, release date fields for sorting and organizing. I guess this thing you're talking about would replace the need for DVD Profiler for movies?

Yes, this would replace DVD Profiler/Ant/My Movies, etc. Of course, we would want to make importers to suck in your existing data from the more popular programs (those 3 I mentioned would probably be at the top of the list).

On that note, we would also look at exporters to help us work in the different environments as well. For example, once we get the backend database up and running, an interim approach would be to write an exporter that can generate .properties files for your media for use with Sage. This would allow people to start leveraging their metadata catalog without having to wait for the Sage plugin to be completed. A similar approach could be taken for other environments as well.

It's all about flexibility. Given the lack of widely adopted standards for media metadata, the next best thing is to have a central database of the metadata and the ability to convert it to whatever format you need. And heck, if this all catches on, maybe it will even become a defacto standard some day.

[*]What kinds of things would you need help on? I can help with documentation, testing and that sort of thing, but no coding skills so let me know if you want/need help.[/LIST]Thanks!

Help anywhere would be appreciated. I'm a programmer, so documentation isn't exactly my strong suit, so that would definitely be an area to help in. I also need to get the project website up soon, so if you have any experience with setting up forums/wikis/blogs, that would be a big help too. And of course we will need lots of testers - the more the better, and with as many variations of setups as possible.

I think the next step is to get the website going and start a forum where we can start fleshing out the requirements, figure out what needs to be done when, and who can help on each piece.

[Brent]

Awesome. Count me in. I'll PM you by this weekend with some ideas on how I might be able to help.

Thanks!

[Fuzzy]

I'd like to help where possible, though unfortunately (fortunately?) I've never really even looked at Java programming. Also, for interest of true portability, and since speed is not really of an issue when dealing with this information, It might be best to simply use a set of XML files for the information. If a standard XML Schema could be generated that would contain the library and metadata information, and a standard set of calling parameters for external importer/exporters, then the individual 'plug-ins' (importers, exporters, scavengers, etc) could be programmed in any language/platform. All that would be required of the actual FlexMC would be to recieve the feedback from these apps, do some error checking (to make sure the incoming changes are not going to jack up the database), and providing this information to the user/user app.

An Example:

• SageTV starts recording of an episode of South Park.
• FlexMC is monitoring the recording directoies and sees the new media file.
• It checks, based on file type and location rules, and determines that it should get the enhanced metadata from the www.theTVDB.com importer.
• It calls in_thetvdb.exe taskid==12345 mode==getdata type==tv series=="South Park" episode=="Starvin' Marvin" file=="S:\SouthPark-Starvin'Marvin-028374.mpg"
• in_thetvdb gets the information from the web site, and generates an XML file (12345.xml) with the Metadata in a designated temp folder, and exits with a satisfactory return code.
• FlexMC reviews the xml to make sure it meets it's requirements, and if so, adds that information to the database.
• FlexMC goes on to the next task in its ruleset for sagetv recordings and calls the sagetv exporter in a similar fashion, which generates a .properties file for the show.

[onlydarksets]

Count me as another Sage user who is extremely interested but who has no relevant programming experience.

[mikehaney]

Fuzzy - now that's the kind of feedback I'm looking for. And the real world usage scenario (i.e. use case) really helps to visualize things.

For the backend storage, I was considering using db4o which is an opensource object oriented database that is usable from java and .net (although I'm not sure you can share databases between the two - that would be a technical nightmare). Storing the database as XML files is a good idea, but I would be concerned about performance. As the library grows, the process of reading/parsing/modifying the dom/writing the XML file could get pretty lengthy.

It's still worth considering though, because I like the "openness" of XML, and one thing I really want to do is keep this open. Then again, we don't really want our frontend apps and utilities accessing the database directly, so maybe it's not a huge deal. My plan was to provide a web service API that the clients can use, and maybe a lightweight RPC-type API for clients that don't know or can't afford the overhead of web services.

onlydarksets - welcome aboard! We can always use testers, documentation people, website people, and cheerleaders. And as we start getting something more concrete, I would like to setup a Paypal account for donations and use the donated money to pay "bounties" to developers, i.e. people can vote on what features they want the most, and we can offer a bounty to whatever developer implements it, to encourage more participation and development work. So that's another way people without coding skills will be able to contribute.

[mikehaney]

BTW - if anyone has any experience with setting up and/or running open source projects, I could really use your help. I've never really been involved with these types of projects (other than as a user), so any help with licensing, legal issues, oversight, etc. would be appreciated.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by mikehaney

For the backend storage, I was considering using db4o which is an opensource object oriented database that is usable from java and .net (although I'm not sure you can share databases between the two - that would be a technical nightmare). Storing the database as XML files is a good idea, but I would be concerned about performance. As the library grows, the process of reading/parsing/modifying the dom/writing the XML file could get pretty lengthy.

As I said, I dont' know much about Java, but I do know that the XML services in .net 3 and 3.5 are extremely fast (and VERY easy to use). XML files are connected and used in exactly the same way as any other database file. Also, as far as database performance, we're not really going to have any problems in this type of application no matter what size the databse gets. The number of queries will be so low (as we're talking at most maybe 3-5 users even using, let alone querying). 'LINQ to XML' is everyone's friend...

[jaminben]

This sounds very interesting, I dont have any programming skills but I can offer my services as a tester if you require one. The biggest attraction for me would be the TVDB for tv series which hopefully would turn out to be something similar to what media portal has at the moment.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mikehaney

For example, I've always wanted something like My Movies/Movie Night that helps me organize my home movies (My Home Movies?). Of course there would be no central metadata site to get that info from, but if it could make it simple to catalog my videos (take a screenshot, suck the date/time from the timecode, add a description, apply tags, etc.) and present them in an organized, searchable fashion, then it would probably be worth the effort for me to organize the tens of hours of camcorder footage of the kids.

OK, I'm a little confused, are you planning on creating a web-based metadata source/repository, like Invelos or MyMovies have for their apps? Or just a "local" (LAN) metadata server for the whatever frontend(s) you're running that would support pulling data from web or app-based sources?

Because if it's the former, you have to be careful or you can run into all sorts of legal issues with data rights (don't want some user uploading their DVD Profiler info into a central server).

I kind of* like the later though

Yes, this would replace DVD Profiler/Ant/My Movies, etc. Of course, we would want to make importers to suck in your existing data from the more popular programs (those 3 I mentioned would probably be at the top of the list).

With what? Just curious because MyMovies is about as close as I've found to DVD Profiler data quality/completeness wise and MyMovies always butchers my collection when I have it scan. DVD Profiler seems to have the best data of all the "accessible" options out there.

On that note, we would also look at exporters to help us work in the different environments as well. For example, once we get the backend database up and running, an interim approach would be to write an exporter that can generate .properties files for your media for use with Sage. This would allow people to start leveraging their metadata catalog without having to wait for the Sage plugin to be completed. A similar approach could be taken for other environments as well.

It's all about flexibility. Given the lack of widely adopted standards for media metadata, the next best thing is to have a central database of the metadata and the ability to convert it to whatever format you need. And heck, if this all catches on, maybe it will even become a defacto standard some day.

No offense, but IMO we've already got too many "central databases", DVD Profiler, MyMovies, etc. I don't really thing another one will help matters.

Help anywhere would be appreciated. I'm a programmer, so documentation isn't exactly my strong suit, so that would definitely be an area to help in. I also need to get the project website up soon, so if you have any experience with setting up forums/wikis/blogs, that would be a big help too. And of course we will need lots of testers - the more the better, and with as many variations of setups as possible.

Originally Posted by mikehaney

BTW - if anyone has any experience with setting up and/or running open source projects, I could really use your help. I've never really been involved with these types of projects (other than as a user), so any help with licensing, legal issues, oversight, etc. would be appreciated.

Haven't seen much from nielm lately, but he (IIRC) setup the sageplugins project on sourceforge, where a few of us have housed some projects, like DVDPro2Sage.

[ewelin]

Originally Posted by mikehaney

I think the next step is to get the website going and start a forum where we can start fleshing out the requirements, figure out what needs to be done when, and who can help on each piece.

I can help out here... i do web development and would be willing to give some time getting this up and running. Drop me a PM and we can hash out the details.

I too am migrating away from MCE and I'm extremely impressed with SageTV and their TV support. I have a huge DVD Library of over 400 movies in My Movies and that's the only feature from MCE I'm missing in Sage. Since this will give us a My Movies for sage I'm definitely on board for helping out where I can.

[Quazeye]

I am moving from VMC to Sage for the HD200. I have most of my movies ripped to my hard drive on the server in VOB format. I use MyMovies currently and I like it alot. This would be great to have in Sage. Is this still being worked on?

Thanks,
Q
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roor bong

[mikehaney]

Originally Posted by Quazeye

I am moving from VMC to Sage for the HD200. I have most of my movies ripped to my hard drive on the server in VOB format. I use MyMovies currently and I like it alot. This would be great to have in Sage. Is this still being worked on?

Thanks,
Q

If you are talking about my project, it is still in the works, but I had some delays getting things up and running. I have a couple of developers on board, and we are just now starting up development.

So yeah, it's on the horizon, but not happening as quickly as I would have hoped. I'll keep everyone updated as we start to make some progress.

[Quazeye]

Good to hear! Looking forward to it.

Q
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Aprilia SL1000