$250.00 USB 2.0 HDTV Hardware Encoder based TV tuner . Out this month too!!!

[mikejaner]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=342201

[edmc]

Just so there is no confusion:

1 - The OnAir device doesn't DEcode Anything - they rely on S/W to decode MPEG-2
2 - The OnAir device doesn't ENcode HDTV - it's already encoded in MPEG-2 when it's received
3 - The OnAir device does, however, ENcode Analog tuned programming

Now that said, I like this device BECAUSE it doesn't DEcode and lets my HTPC's display system do the work - just like FusionHDTV and Elecard.

And one intriguing hint is possible support for QAM although I fear this is again a confusion list of features being inappropriately combined. My fear is that it incorporates a "cable-ready" analog tuner and, hence, optimists jump to concluding that this means QAM support. Fortunately, other posters have indicated that the H/W does, at least, support it and that a S/W upgrade is on its way to enable it... someday...

[stanger89]

From what I've read over at AVS, it sounds like the hardware QAM capable but the software doesn't support it (yet?) kind of like the AccessDTV.

[edmc]

I believe we need more specifics to make any such assumptions...

From what I understand, the AccessDTV does, true enough, have a QAM-capable
Demodulator chip. However, it does not have the memory to do it with the way
the Cable Industry has/will use QAM Modulation. So do not expect any S/W-only
upgrade for AccessDTV. There is, however, a discussion among folks hacking
the card to add the additional memory required and updating the S/W. Don't
know what the state of that work is yet...

As for this OnAir product, the Demodulator referenced in the specs also is
QAM-capable. However, there is no indication that the necessary memory is
present nor any commitment to enhance the S/W to enable QAM. We're all
just hoping I'm afraid... But I'd like to be pleasantly surprised :-)

[stanger89]

I'm holding my breath for QAM since most likely the only stuff on cable that won't be encrypted will be local channels which are available OTA. I don't hold out much hope that QAM support will be useful.

[edmc]

> ...stuff on cable that won't be encrypted will be local channels which are available OTA.

Would that this were true for me and the other 40% of TV viewers unable to receive HD Locals OTA. Don't forget us please...

[mikesm]

As for this OnAir product, the Demodulator referenced in the specs also is
QAM-capable. However, there is no indication that the necessary memory is
present nor any commitment to enhance the S/W to enable QAM. We're all
just hoping I'm afraid... But I'd like to be pleasantly surprised :-)

Unlike the AccessDTV product, this product was clearly designed after the Cable/CE industry agreement to use 256 QAM for transcoded (really transmodulated) transport of HDTV signals. Anyone claiming QAM capability in this context today would understand what this requires. The qualified language is no doubt due to the encryption issue for NON-OTA channels.

Personally, just getting the OTA signals would be enough for me. Otherwise I need antennas pointing in two different directions to pick up all the majors. Comcast just signed an agreement that will bring us CBS, which means they will have all the OTA HDTV in my area.

I don't understand why people say QAM support for cable isn't very important. Even if there is no solution to things like ESPN-HD or HBO-HD because of crypto, you still will get everything you got via OTA, without antennas and associated WAF issues. You are no worse off, and there is the possibility of getting more later. A lot better chance than getting HD programming from the DBS guys.

Even if this hardware doesn't do the right thing, several others will be introducing QAM capable HD decoding in this style of architecture. We are well into the transition away from AccessDTV style hardware to software decoding and video card display. The cost physics and flexibility drive you here...

Thanks,
Mike

[edmc]

> I don't understand why people say QAM support for cable isn't very important.

Hear! Hear!

> We are well into the transition away from AccessDTV style hardware to software decoding and video card display. The cost physics and flexibility drive you here...

And again I say: Hear! Hear!

The only somewhat valid criticism I've heard of QAM Tuning has come from the Broadcast Flag paranoids... Well, as we now know, the BF is part of the Transport Stream and, hence, is just as much a fear for all those OTA cards in HTPCs out there.

I say let that be the next battlefield i.e. to ensure that CableCo's don't insert said BF where the OTA broadcasters leave it clear. I very much doubt this will occur anyway...

BTW, thanks mucho for the update on the CBS agreement - this is indeed good news to all us blood&guts CSI viewers :-)

[salsbst]

Alot of people with early QAM capable cards are reporting that their cable service provider is scrambling OTA channels just like they are ESPN and HBO.

[andrewswright]

One other note about this device - the specs suggest that it has the same analog encoder chip as the PVR-250. This implies that it should function within sage for analog tv. If sage could support the HDTV functions as well, it would make a great all in one analog and HDTV external box.

Andrew

[mikesm]

Alot of people with early QAM capable cards are reporting that their cable service provider is scrambling OTA channels just like they are ESPN and HBO.

I think most MSO's will decide to ship the OTA stuff without encryption. Comcast, my local operator does this, and with more QAM ready HDTV sets shipping with builtin tuners, they will be under a lot of pressure to make this work. I suspect writing nasty letters to the FCC cable bureau might provide some incentives for your provider to do that too.

OTOH, maybe the cable guys are serious about standard modules that deal with the crypto and can plug into TV's and even PC's... Nah, I don't think so...

PS When you talk about early QAM capable cards, which units are you talking about? Fusion III isn't here yet, and this device just started shipping...

Thanks,
Mike

[lovingHDTV]

OK all this talk about this tuner, but noone asked the most important question. Will this USB2.0 tuner be supported by SageTV? Maybe this is the HDTV tuner of choise

[salsbst]

I was referring mainly to AccessDTV which has QAM support, and I guess meant also to include those people with QAM capable TVs....based on what I've read, Comcast seems to be encrypting the OTA channels in at least half of its markets. I have not done a thorough analysis, though.

[mikesm]

Salsbst, Ok I follow you now. Once the standard was agreed to at 256 QAM for HD transport over cable, I think it was pretty clear that AccessDTV wasn't going to be able to work in those systems, encrypted or not... But as this HD tuner equipped sets start getting more and more market penetration, I think you'll see a clear push for OTA HD on cable to be unencrypted. Time will tell.

Thanks,
Mike

[salsbst]

I thought that one of the volunteer programmers had gotten QAM to work on the AccessDTV?

I'm glad that you're optimistic. It can counterbalance my exterme pessimism on the subject of HD encryption

[mikesm]

My understand is that while AccessDTV supports QAM decoding, it can't support the 256 QAM constellation that the Cable HD standard specs out. So it's essentially a deadend product at this point.

Thanks,
Mike

[Beelzebub]

Just a quick question about this QAM stuff, does it just decode the Unencrypted HD channels, or will decode the other digital cable channels. Like normal HBO, or the Science Channel. I just got digital cable again and I dread the thought of having to screw with the cablebox. Not to mention it cost $12 a month for the dam box, Im only paying $19 for Basic Digital Package + HBO pack. I also read somewhere that it is illegal to own your own box. Whats that all about.

[stanger89]

No, unencrypted only. If it's anything like the Fusion III QAM you'll only get HD channels, and probably only your locals.