How to I map more than 1 EPG source to the same tuner card input

[elrod]

I have a D*TV satellite receiver. It will tune both the sat and cable. I like running the cable through it as the picture looks cleaner that way to me. So, I want to tell Sage that this device outputs on s-video and has both my cable and sat service on it. As soon as I tell it my cable is on s-video it removes my d*tv as an input and visa versa. How can I do this?

[carlgar]

I don't think SageTV will allow you to use the same provider for 2 inputs on the same card. It has been a while but I recall encountering the same problem when I was setting up the S-video. I ended up just specifing a different provider for the S-channel which met my purposes. I don't think that will meet yours, but I do not understand what you are trying to accomplish. You might try using a different zip code for one of the inputs and see if that works.

[elrod]

Carlgar, Let me try to explain better. I have a reciever which tunes D*TV, analog cable and OTA digital signals. Sage gives me all those choices during setup - ie from my zip it knows about my cable system etc... However, If, for example, I say the D*TV is connected to my s-video in and then configure my second source, cable, and also map it to s-video it replaces my previous selection. If I connect cable to the RF input on my card and sat to the s-video everything works ok but the tuner is not nearly as good and picture quality suffers. Any ideas?

[stanger89]

I don't think you can map 2 sources to one input. You'll have to use 2 inputs on your card. You could try setting one to S-Vid and the other to Composite.

What card do you have? The tuner on my 250 is excellent, better than the one in my TV.

[carlgar]

I think I now understand what you are trying to do, but I don't think it is currently possible with SageTV. You have a receiver that accepts input from 3 different providers and then you want to send that to SageTV. If this is correct your receiver is basically a new provider which no complete EPG is available.
Does you receiver support multiple outputs such as S-video and antenna (RF out) output, If so that would give you 2 of your 3 providers. This may be what you referred too as cable, but I read that as connecting the provider directly to the tuner bypassing the receiver. You want want to make this a feature request if no one else has any suggestions.

[elrod]

stranger89, I have a 250. The picture isn't bad from the RF input but I think it looks much better passed through my htl-hd satellite rec'v. Mainly I'm looking to the future when this recv'r will get OTA digital here in the vermont boonies. At that point I sure don't want to have to buy another tuner when my system already has one.

Carlgar, I think the only 480 output is the svideo port but I'll look. But then I'm downgrading the signal and kind'a defeating my purpose of best possible picture. I do think this is a new feature request and it would seem simple enough to do (but then I'm in the software business so should know better!).

[gplasky]

I think you'll find out in the long one you'll want another tuner. I have two and it is so much more flexible. Currently if you have one tuner and you are recording something you are stuck watching that as opposed to anything else currently broadcasting at the same time. You can watch anything you have already recorded. With 2 tuners I can record on the one tuner and channel surf and watch anything else that might be on at the same time on the other. I would head for 2 tuners. This would also solve your channel listing issue.

Gerry

[pawn]

Just to summarize the advice you're getting:

Split the cable before the DTV receiver.

Then hook up one fork to the DTV receiver, the other to the RF (i.e., coax cable) input on the PVR-250.

Then output from the DTV receiver to the S-Video or Composite input on the PVR-250 and output the sound from the DTV receiver to the sound input on the PVR-250.

Than you can set up each input separately in SageTV, each with unique guide data.

I agree with the others though: two tuners is the way to go.

[elrod]

Thanks for the advise folks. It's kind of hard to justify adding another piece of $200+ electronics to tune OTA HDTV just so I can get EPG though. Eventually I see myself getting a hd tuner card but until then hoped to record from svideo which looks pretty darn good when the signal is downconverted....

[davedelite]

elrod, I agree with you, this is a MAJOR and SEVERE problem for most who have OTA HDTV interest as well as DirecTV or Dish or cable digital decoding needs, etc. And, I would think this should be darn easy to fix. I certainly hope it is addressed in version 2. Or, that someone tells us how to get this to work in the current version......because I am befuddled about this same issue as much as you and have to overcome it in order to step up and buy this after trialing for the last couple of days.

For the others, let me clarify why this is needed.....

1) Let's assume that the goal here is to maintain best picture quality, period. That means that S-Video (the best available quality input jack on the Hauppauge cards) is used to connect the external tuner box to the PVR250 or 350 (in this case a DirecTV receiver ala the Samsung SIR-TS160 that does both OTA HDTV and DirecTV digital SDTV and HDTV). The DirecTV box is then connected to the TV via a set of component inputs on the TV, and the graphics card output (I have an ATI AIW) is connected to either a DVI input or component input to the TV. When merely watching TV one would not use the Sage because of some loss of picture running through the MPEG2 encoding etc. and the much less effective SVideo cabling as compared to the pure component between the DirecTV box and the TV. If one was either recording, playing back, or viewing time-shifted material, then the stream being watched is SVideo to HTPC, processed through Hauppauge and Sage, output graphics card to TV, some reduced PQ vs. the direct component connection, but that is the trade-off one makes "today anyway" to have the PVR functionality in effect.

2) The need, therefore is for one integrated EPG that can show a combined selection of SAT and OTA, or Cable and OTA, so one guide is used for viewing, selection, and record selection. Otherwise, the WAF goes down the crapper and it is difficult to justify reloading the channel lists to the same singular SVideo input port on the Hauppauge every time you want to go between watching time shifted program, or recording something from an OTA source or the Cable or SAT feed. This is why I have been using SageRecorder, because without this it is less effective to use SageTV when one need not purchase local channels from DirecTV, Dish, or Cable because they get great digital OTA terrestrial for free.

3) Using the composite video port or coax in a second source does not make sense as it will severely reduce PQ when recording through that input jack....and this will be noticed on the newer larger TVs immediately. Nor, do I understand how this will show up in one integrated guide for WAF.

Lastly, one can still use two tuners without running both through the HTPC. Sure, you can only record one show at once, but unless you have frequent times when you want to record two shows being recorded at once, why would one buy another capture card. Doing so for another source to connect the EPG to does not make a lot of sense anyway, as one would then always have to be mapped to the OTA guide and the other to the Cable or SAT????? Come on, that would mean you have the same problem if you wanted to record two shows at once from the same source...either two DirecTV shows or two OTA.

LASTLY, I know this has been a request for some time now, as I asked Jeff about it last May......I can only hope it is on V2.............JEFF, please tell us it is!!

[gplasky]

2 tuner-2 SAT boxes-SAT to S-video on PVR250, Cable on PVR250-1 guide. Connect component out of SAT to TV. Record 2 SAT shows and watch your HDTV through component. Record 2 shows off cable and watch HDTV through component. Using Sage record on SAT channel and watch using other tuner so you can pause. This type of setup would give you the most flexability. In this setup I can record 2 shows at once and still watch something on TV or something I already recorded. WOuldn't this work?

Gerry

[davedelite]

Gerry, I am a tad confused due to abbreviated nature. Simply....in this set-up do you have ANY connections that are other than Svideo quality (i.e. composite yellow rca plugh or coaxial cable) between the external digital decoder box (SAT or digital cable) and the TV? If so, then the fundamental objective of satisfying for no less than an SVideo connection to the HTPC at any time is violated. Please clarify.

But even so, again, another fundamental interest here is to not have to buy two capture cards, and consume two PCI slots, if indeed one only ever desires to record or time shift one program at a time. I think you just described a set-up that requires that. Again, all we are saying is recognize in the EPG that there are these advanced (actually, quite common now) digital decoder boxes (the Samsung SIR-TS160 is very popular for this) that contain guide and tuning ability for OTA digital + Satellite and provide an integrated guide (as Sage should do) and have the signal from WHATEVER SOURCE it processes output simultaneously via DVI and Svideo or Component and Svideo. That way we can benefit from the better quality direct connection straight to TV and the Svideo is the best available today to the standalone HTPC PVR (until a component or DVI capture card comes out that is economical)

[davedelite]

Elrod, I found a trick that will work to get the Sage EPG populated with the combined guide for OTA broadcast + a SAT or Cable provider with one Hauppauge card.......but, we still need to figure out how to trick the program. I set up one tuner on the Hauppauge card and mapped that to DirecTV input signal and guide, I then set up the second tuner with my ATI AIW output card (which I only use for output...not capture, because it does not have hardware for MPEG2 for high quality like conexant chip on Hauppauge). The guide than combines both OTA and DirecTV. The problem will be that I don't have an SVideo connected to my AIT output card, and (a) don't want to use that card anyway for capture, adn (b) with one svideo output on the sat box, don't want to degrade the signal by splitting (not cheap) the svideo cable.

So, what we need is someone to tell us to trick Sage now so that, while it thinks there are two capture cards for two different boxes, that it activates the real capture card (in this case the Hauppauge) all the time, even when it thinks it is activating the one that you have told it is connected to the second tuner (in this case, the ATI that is really used for output)

I wonder if anyone (Jeff??) as any ideas on how this might be done easily. Maybe there is a file we can change a text string in to overide what the GUI indicates you will be doing....

[gplasky]

In the above scenario I referred to the SAT box as also having component (not composite)output since you referred to wanting the higher resolution (HDTV) capability. In my instance everything I watch isn't HDTV, but when it is I watch through my cable box. Everything else I watch through Sage. If you only have one tuner and it is recording you can't channel surf and watch anything else. So then you would use your SAT box and watch anything else. There have been many instances when I record 2 different programs either at the same time ot they overlap. 2 tuners give me this capability. 1 tuner would not. If you have one tuner and your SAT, doesn't your SAT box give you all the channels for your area? If you setup OTA your OTA box could connect up to the cable connection on the PVR. Your SAT box would connect to the s-video in. You configure 2 sources in Sage. One for the OTA connection. One for the s-video connection for your SAT box. Now you have your 2 sources in one guide. Am I missing something here?

Gerry

[davedelite]

Gerry:

(1) External digital decoder box. In this case it is a Samsung SIR-TS160 box that has a satellite feed and terrestrial antenna feed into the back. It processes BOTH DirecTV modulated digital satellite and local ATSC digital terrestrial signals and puts them on one integrated program guide. I do not ever watch the analog local feed, NOR DO I SUBSCRIBE to local channels from a satellite provider because they are simply digital satellite broadcast of analog (i.e. non HDTV capable) transmission and no better quality than the freebie digital broadcast you can get from affiliates who have invested in digital transmission equipment (most have in major markets) and captured with a capable receiver, like the SIR-TS160.

(1) 1 connection via component out to TV

(1) 1 Svideo jack from SIR-TS160 that is active at the same time as the component outputs (this is why many people by this box rather than the Sony or Hughes DirecTV HDTV + ATSC/OTA boxes) and connected to the Hauppauge


The bottom line problem, unless I am missing something, is that the awesome SIR-TS160 allows combined EPG of the local "rooftop antenna or other" received channels integrated with the DirecTV channels of 100 and above (again, I DO NOT pay $5 per month for simply rebroadcast by DirecTV of what I get for free OTA over the air). Then, all of this goes to both the TV and computer via aforementioned connections. The problem is that with one source feed and connection to the Hauppauge via Svideo but two EPG data sources (from Sage's perspective) Sage does not allow "adding" two program guides together, but pointed at control of the same input port. Instead, it bumps one EPG out and replaces it with another........


At this time I don't need to record two shows at once. I either record while watching, record while not watching, or record while watching another show (I do the latter by using another DirecTV box that directly connects to the TV so as to allow the SIR-TS160 and Hauppauge to record uninhibited). I have NO NEED to connect this second DirecTV receiver up to another capture card because I don't have the need for simulatenous record activity at this time.

[elrod]

davedelite, exactly my problem.

[davedelite]

elrod...I am in email communication with Jeff on the issue...notifying him. I thought this was brought up months ago and put in the plans for inclusion at some point....I noticed this past week when playing with SageTV though (I had relegated myself to SageRecorder without this capability as it is easier) that it still had the limitation........we will see what Jeff's take is on it....I know they have been busy with 2.0

[davedelite]

elrod, Jeff has proposed a solution. He had me send him my sage.properties file and then he responded with the following solution.....so as long as there is not too much here in his recommendation that is dependent on my SPECIFIC properties file as it stood when I sent it to him....vs. what your properties file may look like....here is his suggestion.......I will test this tonight.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Add these lines to the properties file:

mmc/encoders/1642691032/3/5/video_crossbar_index=5
mmc/encoders/1642691032/3/5/video_crossbar_type=3

Then start Sage and go through the SetupWizard. You'll see an SVideo 6 input, select that for one of your sources. As long as you don't setup a tuner or composite source on that card you should be OK then.

Thanks,
Jeff

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keeping my fingers crossed

[davedelite]

elrod....I tested this last night, and through the night doing different recordings from one EPG to one capture card from one external box for both ATSC HDTV stations (albeit capture was limited to SDTV 480i through SVideo) and DirecTV stations and it worked GREAT!

Thanks to Jeff once again

[elrod]

thanks davedelite.
I'll try it this weekend to verify those settings were not specific to you for some reason.

Hopefully it works in the beta too, I was going to switch.