HD Component capture with H.264 Encode

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

Going from 384kbps AC3 , to 192kbps isn't much of a loss to me, I dont think I can hear the difference.

There's a huge difference between discrete 5.1 (AC3) and AAC downconverted to stereo, that's for sure, I can tell the difference if I listen to a QT trailer with AAC audio on my Extender (downconverted) vs my HTPC (ac3filter re-encoded to AC3). That wouldn't be a problem if you're using a multichannel connection, but with S/PDIF it's very obvious.

[lobosrul]

Originally Posted by stanger89

There's a huge difference between discrete 5.1 (AC3) and AAC downconverted to stereo, that's for sure, I can tell the difference if I listen to a QT trailer with AAC audio on my Extender (downconverted) vs my HTPC (ac3filter re-encoded to AC3). That wouldn't be a problem if you're using a multichannel connection, but with S/PDIF it's very obvious.

On my setup AAC (5.1) is NOT down-converted. I'm saying that when I first started transcoding HDTV I had no idea there would ever even be a SageTV HD Extender, let alone that it would down-convert to stereo.

[stanger89]

Yeah, I mainly pointed it out because I was quite surprised how much better the QT trailers sounded through my HTPC than my extender. That reminds me, I should put in a request to get stuff transcoded to AC3...

[cat6man]

anyone know

1) what chipset the hauppage hdpvr might be using?
2) what container the h.264 might use?

by the way, for those using HD cable STBs, firewire channel
control, which is quite reliable and easily supports multiple STBs, is probably a better solution than the IR blaster that will come with the hdpvr.

in the US, the cableco must provide a firewire connection if requested

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by cat6man

in the US, the cableco must provide a firewire connection if requested

Where does it state that? I called Cox one time and they had no idea what I was talking about. Although I'm not sure how many channels Cox provides without C5 encryption.

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Where does it state that? I called Cox one time and they had no idea what I was talking about. Although I'm not sure how many channels Cox provides without C5 encryption.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-03-225A1.pdf

See Page 50, 3rd paragraph from the bottom.

Aloha,
Mike

[Crashless]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Where does it state that? I called Cox one time and they had no idea what I was talking about. Although I'm not sure how many channels Cox provides without C5 encryption.

This doesn't surprise me. When I had my cable installed, I hooked a cable directly to my HDTV and tuned an HD QAM channel, the installer freaked! He said, "How are you getting HD without our box!!!" all accusatory. Cable companies have very poor training for their employees. Sometimes just hanging up and calling back to another rep is the best option.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Crashless

This doesn't surprise me. When I had my cable installed, I hooked a cable directly to my HDTV and tuned an HD QAM channel, the installer freaked! He said, "How are you getting HD without our box!!!" all accusatory. Cable companies have very poor training for their employees. Sometimes just hanging up and calling back to another rep is the best option.

I may call again... at this poing I'm not too worried about it... I have a system that works. It would be nice to be able to capture the streams of all the digital channels. But that would be dependent on what channels they provide without C5 encryption. Is there any site that can give a clue as to what channels a particular cable company provides without C5?

[Crashless]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I may call again... at this poing I'm not too worried about it... I have a system that works. It would be nice to be able to capture the streams of all the digital channels. But that would be dependent on what channels they provide without C5 encryption. Is there any site that can give a clue as to what channels a particular cable company provides without C5?

The only ones you can count on are your locals. Or more specifically, anything you could get over the air without the cable co. Everything else should be considered a temporary gift, as a few users have recently discovered and mentioned in this thread.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Crashless

The only ones you can count on are your locals. Or more specifically, anything you could get over the air without the cable co. Everything else should be considered a temporary gift, as a few users have recently discovered and mentioned in this thread.

It would probably be easier just to wait for this device than fool with the possibility of not getting anything I want. As it stands Cox is only providing the local network affiliates plus some other BS such as Go Scout Homes through Clear QAM. The only real exception is that WGN can be had in the clear. The rest of the basic cable channels are all encrypted. As far as I can tell all the analog channels are also provided as SD digital but I'm not really sure. It's entirely possible that they're waiting till they can decomission the analog channels before providing them in the clear. At least I would hope so. It's also possible they're depending on Cable Card and now Tru2way to provide the service to their customers. Of course much of this is mere speculation.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by cat6man

in the US, the cableco must provide a firewire connection if requested

They may be required to provide it but that doesn't prevent a software update on the STB stopping it from working - like what my cable co did to me. Then deny that they DO in fact shut options off with software upgrades and make it nearly impossible to get them to turn it back on.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

It's entirely possible that they're waiting till they can decomission the analog channels before providing them in the clear.

The 2009 analog shutoff has nothing to do with cable, that's OTA only. AFAIK cable operators could shut off their analog today if they wanted (be like Satellite), or they could keep them indefinitely.

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

They may be required to provide it but that doesn't prevent a software update on the STB stopping it from working - like what my cable co did to me. Then deny that they DO in fact shut options off with software upgrades and make it nearly impossible to get them to turn it back on.

They have to provide the Firewire output, and presumably a working one. But there's nothing that says they can't require DTCP on that port. Remember PCs don't fully support Firewire recording, a D-VHS deck would work with almost anything on cable since they support DTCP.

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

They may be required to provide it but that doesn't prevent a software update on the STB stopping it from working - like what my cable co did to me. Then deny that they DO in fact shut options off with software upgrades and make it nearly impossible to get them to turn it back on.

my cableco said they didn't have firewire, etc.......i told them they were in violation of FCC regs, please check with your supervisor, and in 5 minutes they were ready to give me what i wanted.

mention FCC violation to them and you'll get their attention

there is no guarantee you can get more than local channels over this connection though as many/most channels will have 5C turned on.

my point for mentioning this in the first place was not to get recordings over firewire but to point out that the firewire tuner methodology contains a neat channel tuner via firewire, and i would recommend this over IRblaster for the hdpvr when it comes out.

cheersh

[cat6man]

techie question:

with the transcoding from component MPG to h.264, shouldn't the picture quality be better if the resolution is maintained?

i.e. 1080i should be recorded to 1080i, 720p to 720p, avoiding the scaling and deinterlacing that would be needed to go between these?

i assume this is true, therefore it would be beneficial to have a recording resolution choice (480i, 720p, 1080i) on a 'per channel' or 'per recording' basis.

thoughts?

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by cat6man

my cableco said they didn't have firewire, etc.......i told them they were in violation of FCC regs, please check with your supervisor, and in 5 minutes they were ready to give me what i wanted.

mention FCC violation to them and you'll get their attention

there is no guarantee you can get more than local channels over this connection though as many/most channels will have 5C turned on.

my point for mentioning this in the first place was not to get recordings over firewire but to point out that the firewire tuner methodology contains a neat channel tuner via firewire, and i would recommend this over IRblaster for the hdpvr when it comes out.

cheersh

I wasn't using the firewire port to record only to change channels since they had already 5C'd all the channels except the locals. My point was you are still at the mercy of bad/unknowledgeable CSR's that don't know anything and put you on hold for 20 minutes or more while they check with their supervisor. The only good thing it did was get me an $8 a month disgruntled discount because I hung up before they got back to me when I had to go use the rest-room and I didn't want to be put on hold for another 20+ minutes just to get back to where I was.

[Berg]

My only concern with an HD capture device that uses component is that I recall reading that one of the ways the content providers/distributors were going to protect the content from the "analog hole" is to flag some of their content to degrade the output over component and only provide the full quality signal over the HDMI connector.

Does anyone know if this is a real concern or if anyone is doing that now ?

This is where the R5000 has an advantage, if in fact this is the case. If they only "downgrade" the analog hole for HDDVD/BluRay content, then it's not a concern for those of us who would like to capture HD TV content.

What do you guys think ?

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The 2009 analog shutoff has nothing to do with cable, that's OTA only. AFAIK cable operators could shut off their analog today if they wanted (be like Satellite), or they could keep them indefinitely.

I was under the impression that the FCC was mandating that cable operators provide access without the need for an STB till Feb 2012.

[SHS]

stanger89
FCC rally trying encouraged thoses cable operators to dump all analog in fact FCC would like a more Open "Clear" QAM or was it Clear ATSC standard that fully Compatible with Digital tuner.
Beside all the cable operators would have spent more money on covert thoses digital back in to analog for basic tier and there extended basic tier and that beside the point if do dump analog in fav of digital channels which use far less bandwidth than analog ones, that means more room for HD and other digital services and all thoses digital to analog coverter box 1 per channel which free up a lot power to bot after most cable operators have any where 50 to 70 coverter boxs.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I was under the impression that the FCC was mandating that cable operators provide access without the need for an STB till Feb 2012.

Any cable company that does not go all digital by Feb 2009 will be required to carry most of the "broadcast stations" in both analog & digital until Feb 2012

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by SHS

Any cable company that does not go all digital by Feb 2009 will be required to carry most of the "broadcast stations" in both analog & digital until Feb 2012

You're sort of right. Looking it up further cable companies have two options to support analog TV's between 2009 and 2012.

1) Convert the digital signals they get from the local affiliates to analog and provide it without need for an STB.

2) Go all digital and roll out STB's to all their customers.