Dell TV power and volume the same as HD-100

[mrwolf]

My Dell TVs are made by Phillips and the power and volume keys on the HD-100 remote are the same causing some annoying problems. In my living room I've gotten around this by using a Harmony 890 with the Ir blasters and macros. I'm not completely happy with it because now I have to battle the wife on whether the remote is kept by my chair or her sofa--but it functions.

However, in the bedroom I just have the TV set up with a set of powered PC speakers. The TV volume and SageTV volume are not proportional and if I'm to have a DVD player connected, I will need the TV to control the volume, not the HD-100.

If I cover up the Ir receiver on the TV, I can't turn the TV on/off. I don't really want to invest in 890's for the bedroom (one for me and one for the wife). Guess I can place the HD-100 near where the Ir receiver is on the TV and deal with the power issue but if the two get out of sync (inevitible), WAF will plummet.

Are there any suggestions on how to get around this cost effectively?

[Opus4]

If you don't want to use a programmable remote to use different IR codes for the HD100, do you happen to have an unused Hauppauge remote laying around? The HD100 will respond to its buttons too, including power on/off.

However, you may still have an issue with your TV's power button if that one works for the HD100 too, because you can't reprogram the IR codes for power on the HD100.

- Andy

[mrwolf]

Originally Posted by Opus4

If you don't want to use a programmable remote to use different IR codes for the HD100, do you happen to have an unused Hauppauge remote laying around? The HD100 will respond to its buttons too, including power on/off.

However, you may still have an issue with your TV's power button if that one works for the HD100 too, because you can't reprogram the IR codes for power on the HD100.

- Andy

Yes I do and it does the same thing.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mrwolf

Yes I do and it does the same thing.

Do you mean the Hauppauge's power button also does the same thing, or just the vol up/down?

I'm guessing only the volume buttons becase they use the same scan code number, though from a different system code set. It sounds like the TV is accepting those codes from any RC5 IR protocol system code set, when it should only accept the commands from its own set.

BTW: Does the 'Radio' button on the 45-button Hauppauge remote turn your TV on/off?

- Andy

[mrwolf]

Ok, let me correct myself. The volume keys are the same on both, the HD100 remote and the Hauppage remote, as my TVs. The power button on the HD100 remote only turns the TV off. The power button on the Hauppage remote has no effect on the TV and the Radio button on the Hauppage remote only turns the TV off.

[Narflex]

Is there some 'universal remote' feature of that TV so that it'll respond to different remotes? Maybe something in it's setup somewhere?

As Andy mentioned, the volume codes on the STX-HD100 remote and the Hauppauge remote are different; so it's very surprising that the TV would respond to both of them unless it was designed to ignore the code set identifier.

You can actually go into Setup->Detailed Setup->Commands->Show SageTV Commands Linked to Infrared/Keystroke

and then it'll display the IR code that SageTV is detecting; and you could use this to verify that they are in fact different codes.

[Opus4]

I was just about to say that you could use "Show SageTV Commands Linked to Infrared/Keystroke" to display the IR code from the TV's remote & I could tell you what code set it is using -- could be 0 & I'll bet they don't filter the code set. (I'm guessing that the TV's remote will show IR code 4108 in SageTV.)

If the TV can't be configured to pay attention to only its own code set, then about the only solution I can think of is to use a remote that can be programmed to use specific RC5 codes that aren't used by the TV. And, perhaps the HD100's discrete on/off codes won't interfere with the TV.

- Andy

[mrwolf]

The power button on the TV remote shows as -2145648612

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mrwolf

The power button on the TV remote shows as -2145648612

Heh, well so much for that guess of mine. If that is what is showing on that screen on the HD100, I don't think it is even an RC5 IR code. There isn't really anything I can do about what codes the TV sees, but I'm curious what model the TV is.

- Andy

[mrwolf]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Heh, well so much for that guess of mine. If that is what is showing on that screen on the HD100, I don't think it is even an RC5 IR code. There isn't really anything I can do about what codes the TV sees, but I'm curious what model the TV is.

- Andy

I'm pretty sure one is a W4201 and the other is a W3201. They may be W4201C and W3201C -- not positive. Both use Philips codes, and I'm pretty sure they were made by Philips. I think all the Dell TVs were except for one that was an LG.

I have a couple of ReplayTV remotes, which can operate the TV. I suppose I can teach the HD100 the Ir commands, couldn't I? Wouldn't that allow me to separate the commands on the HD100 from the TV if I can work it right since the HD100 supports distinct on/off codes, which don't appear to have any effect on the TV?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mrwolf

I'm pretty sure one is a W4201 and the other is a W3201. They may be W4201C and W3201C -- not positive.

According to the editor for my MX-700 remote, those TVs use the same remote codes (same as each other, not same as the HD100) & I see the IR results you mentioned on the HD100 -- it flashes a number then shows the value you posted above. It isn't RC5, so my initial guess that they weren't filtering the system code set is wrong too, and I have no idea why the TV would respond to the codes from the HD100 & Hauppauge remotes. I got curious and tried doing some searching on Google and remotecentral.com & found some info at remote central that suggested the Dell TVs like yours are using MCE IR protocols (similar to RC6). I found a post expressing surprise that someone got the TV to react to an RC5 code, with the speculation that either it was a mistake in the TV or Dell purposely programmed it to recognize RC5 so it would be easier to use a universal remote w/the TV. This doesn't really help you solve it; I was just curious about it.

Did you check Narflex's suggestion to see if there is any setting on the TV to configure whether it reacts to other remotes?

I have a couple of ReplayTV remotes, which can operate the TV. I suppose I can teach the HD100 the Ir commands, couldn't I? Wouldn't that allow me to separate the commands on the HD100 from the TV if I can work it right since the HD100 supports distinct on/off codes, which don't appear to have any effect on the TV?

For the part I bolded: what IR codes were you planning to learn in SageTV on the HD100? As long as the HD100 recognizes them and they don't affect the TV, then you've met your goal.

And the HD100's discrete on/off codes can't be changed on the HD100 -- you'll have to have some remote that can already emit those codes, or one that can at least be programmed for them. You said you have a Harmony in the first post, so I figure you may already have the discrete codes on it.

- Andy

[mrwolf]

Originally Posted by Opus4

According to the editor for my MX-700 remote, those TVs use the same remote codes (same as each other, not same as the HD100) & I see the IR results you mentioned on the HD100 -- it flashes a number then shows the value you posted above. It isn't RC5, so my initial guess that they weren't filtering the system code set is wrong too, and I have no idea why the TV would respond to the codes from the HD100 & Hauppauge remotes. I got curious and tried doing some searching on Google and remotecentral.com & found some info at remote central that suggested the Dell TVs like yours are using MCE IR protocols (similar to RC6). I found a post expressing surprise that someone got the TV to react to an RC5 code, with the speculation that either it was a mistake in the TV or Dell purposely programmed it to recognize RC5 so it would be easier to use a universal remote w/the TV. This doesn't really help you solve it; I was just curious about it.

Did you check Narflex's suggestion to see if there is any setting on the TV to configure whether it reacts to other remotes?

For the part I bolded: what IR codes were you planning to learn in SageTV on the HD100? As long as the HD100 recognizes them and they don't affect the TV, then you've met your goal.

And the HD100's discrete on/off codes can't be changed on the HD100 -- you'll have to have some remote that can already emit those codes, or one that can at least be programmed for them. You said you have a Harmony in the first post, so I figure you may already have the discrete codes on it.

- Andy

I haven't had time to check Narflex's suggestion, as I'm headed to California for a mini vacation tomorrow. I'll have to investigate more when I get back. I'll post back later in the week. I do have a Harmony in the living room, which is set up and working. It's not ideal as me and the wife fight over the fact she carries the remote to the other couch and I find myself having to get back up all the time to get my remote. Previously we each used our own Firefly. The other obstacle is in the bedroom where we *HAVE* to have two remotes. I'll see what I can figure out when I get back. I might have to get a couple URC-6131's as I've read about in other threads. I really like that remote, anyway. If the ReplayTV remotes do what I need, I'd be happy with that. I'll let you know.

Thanks!

[CollinR]

Are your FireFlys within range?

They can control the extenders too, if they aren't too far away.

[mrwolf]

Originally Posted by CollinR

Are your FireFlys within range?

They can control the extenders too, if they aren't too far away.

I was using the RF Firefly, not the Firefly mini.

[mrwolf]

Ok, before I go and blow a couple hundred bucks on two new Harmony remotes, I just wanted to ask a couple more questions. I've been reading up on remote control protocols, JP1, etc., and there is just a ton of information out there. Too much for me to read through, I have the brains, I just don't have the time. Here is my understanding:

ReplayTV Remotes: I tried to teach the HD100 the Ir commands and it totally freaked out. Like, I can press the right arrow and it goes right, shoots to home, then goes into standby. lol. Obviously something is not compatible here so the ReplayTV remote is out.

Radio Shack 15-135: This remote appeared to have everything I needed. It has pre-programmed codes which will take care of the DVD player and the TV, plus it has the now common feature of volume lock, button remapping, etc. It will also learn Ir codes, so, I thought this would be a PERFECT remote. It even has a lot of the designated buttons I wanted so it looks like a pretty good replacement for the HD100 remote. The weird thing is I figured since it would learn codes, it would work great. It does some weird stuff like, I learned the "OK" (Select) button from the HD100 remote and it works, but once I press it, I have to press any other key one time to get it to work again. The up and down buttons also seem to send more than one command. Sometimes they work ok, other times they jump up or down 2-3 spaces instead of one. Freaky. I tried the disable RC5 setting and it causes other weirdness. I don't understand why if it's a learning remote, it doesn't duplicate the Ir command correctly. When I'm pressing the "OK" button the Ir light on the HD100 lights up, it just doesn't do anything until I press another key first...maybe an "end of code" digit missing or something?

Edit: a lot of the buttons do the thing where once pressed, I have to press another button to make it work again.

JP1: A lot of remotes I have do indeed have the 6-pin connector. I guess it's feasible that they could be reprogrammed to operate the HD100. My take on JP1 is that if you have the time, enjoy working with binary and hex codes, and want to save $100, it's for you. Otherwise, I have no desire to invest the time in it and would rather just spend the money on a couple more Harmony remotes to keep the WAF up. Can someone confirm my thoughts on JP1?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mrwolf

Edit: a lot of the buttons do the thing where once pressed, I have to press another button to make it work again.

This is usually caused by the remote not learning both toggle states of the RC5 IR code. But, if turning off the RC5 property causes other weirdness , then maybe the remote isn't learning the single code fully either.

I think you are better off with any remote where the codes can be programmed directly rather than learned, whether you end up with JP1, Harmony, URC, Pronto, etc.

JP1: A lot of remotes I have do indeed have the 6-pin connector. I guess it's feasible that they could be reprogrammed to operate the HD100. My take on JP1 is that if you have the time, enjoy working with binary and hex codes, and want to save $100, it's for you. Otherwise, I have no desire to invest the time in it and would rather just spend the money on a couple more Harmony remotes to keep the WAF up. Can someone confirm my thoughts on JP1?

The tools weren't too bad once I figured out what I was doing with JP1, but I decided to spend the money on an MX-700 because I could rename the LCD buttons instead of having to remember what all the remapped buttons were for. There were RC5 frustrations even with that remote when I bought it, but that got solved well enough along the way.

I have no idea whether you can program your own codes for the Harmony, but that is the biggest advantage of JP1: you get to define any IR code you want to use, which could be important when you try to find something that doesn't also turn your TV off.

- Andy

[mrwolf]

Originally Posted by Opus4

This is usually caused by the remote not learning both toggle states of the RC5 IR code. But, if turning off the RC5 property causes other weirdness , then maybe the remote isn't learning the single code fully either.

I take it you mean with RC5 there is a "key press" and "key release" Ir code?

I feel like I'm so close...yet $200 away from what I want

Just another thought--are there any known similar remotes for VCRs, DVD players, or such that I could program the remote as and the HD100 can be taught the codes without any issues? (no it does not show the Hauppage remote as an option).

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mrwolf

I take it you mean with RC5 there is a "key press" and "key release" Ir code?

No -- it sends 2 different codes for multiple presses of the same key, one code per button press.

RC5 uses a toggle bit which flips every time you press the same key repeatedly. It gets reset when you press any other key. So, when you press the same key repeatedly, the remote sends an alternating series of 2 different codes. This makes it easier for devices to distinguish between pressing & holding a button vs. pressing it multiple times.

The property to have SageTV ignore the toggle on the extender is:
rc5_disable=true

- Andy

[mrwolf]

Whoa! I think I've got it! The manual lists "video accessories" as one of the options and most of them are computers, presumably media center PCs. I turned off the RC5 option and chose one of those and so far it seems to be learning the commands. I'll report back tomorrow, but I think this will do it!

EDIT: Actually, what I did was accidental, but it worked after some pain. Remember, the goal was to have a remote that my wife and I could each have one on our side of the bed. After you explained the RC5 stuff, I figured out that part of the whackiness was that some buttons had one toggle learned, others had the other toggle learned. I turned off RC5 in the properties file then I used the "show Ir commands" function on the HD100 to show me which ones on the HD100 remote worked and learned only those codes, being careful not to learn the wrong one. Now I just have to use the "learned" remote to teach the other learnable remote to make it a twin. LOL. It works! Hope this helps someone else.

[mrwolf]

I forgot to mention that I got around the issue of power being the Ir command as my TV. The TV Ir did not affect the HD100, so I mapped the TV Ir code to put the HD100 into standby. When I turn off my TV the HD100 goes into standby. When I turn on my TV, the HD100 is in standby and a simple press of the OK button brings it up.

I'm a happy guy and I think the WAF continues to climb!