Analog Cable: CBS is bad quality

[gilded07]

I'm in the process of switching from Directv to Cox Analog Cable. I know this probably sounds strange (it does to me, anyway) but the quality of the my local CBS affiliate (channel 5) is so bad coming through Sage that comskip won't even identify and skip the commercials correctly. I've tested it on sitcoms, nightly news, dramas, etc. and the result is the same. However, when I watch and record shows on any other station, the quality of live TV is better and the comskip works fine on the recorded shows. I installed the WinTV application and CBS channel 5 looked much better on it than it does via SageTV. CBS Channel 5 also looks fine when the coax cable is plugged directly into a CRT TV sitting close to my server. I thought maybe I needed to boost my signal. The cable comes into a structured wiring, OnQ box in my utility room. I split it once and send one line directly to the cable modem and the other line goes into the OnQ 6-way splitter which sends one of the six feeds into the room where my server is. From the wall jack, I split it again with one going into the CRT Tv and the other going into the PVR-150 in the server. However, if signal loss or degradation was the cause, wouldn't all the channels be affected in a like manner?

I'm hoping its something stupid that I'm overlooking - any ideas?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by gilded07

I thought maybe I needed to boost my signal. The cable comes into a structured wiring, OnQ box in my utility room. I split it once and send one line directly to the cable modem and the other line goes into the OnQ 6-way splitter which sends one of the six feeds into the room where my server is. From the wall jack, I split it again with one going into the CRT Tv and the other going into the PVR-150 in the server. However, if signal loss or degradation was the cause, wouldn't all the channels be affected in a like manner?

I think the lower channels get worse quicker, at least that is my experience with my office connections currently. Channel 2 is mostly snow & the higher channels are mostly clear. If it should be the other way around, then something strange is happening here.

You've got a 2-way splitter, a 6-way splitter (not an amp, right?), and a 2-way splitter before the tuner... that's a lot of signal drop if there is no amp anywhere.

- Andy

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I think the lower channels get worse quicker, at least that is my experience with my office connections currently. Channel 2 is mostly snow & the higher channels are mostly clear. If it should be the other way around, then something strange is happening here.

You've got a 2-way splitter, a 6-way splitter (not an amp, right?), and a 2-way splitter before the tuner... that's a lot of signal drop if there is no amp anywhere.

- Andy

The six way does plug in to a 110 electrical plug. But I don't know if its actually powered and how much boost its providing. I suppose I could get a signal booster and try it and see what happens. My favorite sitcoms are on CBS (two and a half men and big bang theory) and I can't live w/out comskip

But if it was a signal loss problem, I would think the WinTV viewer would also show a bad picture...oh well, if a signal booster fixes it, I'll be happy.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by gilded07

But if it was a signal loss problem, I would think the WinTV viewer would also show a bad picture...

Hmmm... well, I think I missed that part & was reading my own office signal issue into it. A while back, some people have talked about using FreqShifter to get a channel to tune in better in SageTV, so maybe that is a better fit for your situation -- a forum search should turn up some info. If that isn't it either, then I'll just bow out of this one.

- Andy

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Hmmm... well, I think I missed that part & was reading my own office signal issue into it. A while back, some people have talked about using FreqShifter to get a channel to tune in better in SageTV, so maybe that is a better fit for your situation -- a forum search should turn up some info. If that isn't it either, then I'll just bow out of this one.

- Andy

Funny you mention your post...I was reading through it just now and came across this quote from reply #20 on your thread:

"I was getting extremely poor reception on the PVR-500 (it is the A version). Several channels on the digital box did not come in, just said channel will be available shortly.

On the DCP501 in the living room things worked ok, but on some of the channels the television would skip once in a while.

Bought an EDA-FT08100 and a EDA-UG28002. I put a 2 way splitter at the line coming into the house, one side to the cable modem the other to the EDA-FT08100. I then hooked all of the other 5 inputs to the EDA-FT08100. Next I put the EDA-UG28002 in the computer room and hooked the 4 inputs to that.

What a world of difference. Even the analog side of the PVR-500 is clear. Where I had decent reception at the analog tv's, I now get great reception. I now get all the channels on the digital cable boxes, no skipping.

It was expensive, but with all the other money I have invested in this system it is well worth it to finish the job and get some great quality recordings and reception.
Last edited by stevenkd : 05-01-2008"

This EDA-FT08100 sounds like it would help me too. I googled the EDA-UG28002 but couldn't find anything on it.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by gilded07

I googled the EDA-UG28002 but couldn't find anything on it.

The correct number is EDA-UG2802.

But, if that 6-way does add a boost to the signal, then you may not need another map, so check out FreqShifter -- after reading your post again, it looks like you are new to that cable service, so maybe the tuning is off for some channels in SageTV. It is cheaper to try that first. If possible, you could also try the tuner w/o all the splits (or at least try removing the last 2-way) to see if that improves it.

- Andy

[gilded07]

I added a Phillips 12dB (50-900MHz) signal booster right before the split to my PVR150 and PVR500 (I believe the PVR500 counts as another split since it has two tuners). After the split last split, each coax goes directly into the 150 and 500.

I still have occasional problems with channel 5 / CBS and my favs are on Monday night back to back to back. The playback from some Monday nights is clear and comskip works fine. On other Monday nights, the playback picture is clearly worse than usual and comskip doesn't mark the coms at all or does so wrongly. I think my comskip version is 79.76.

I wonder if it has to do with one of my tuners being worse than the other (150 and 500). To test this theory, is there a way to assign tuners to a favorite? If I could reproduce the problem consistently with one tuner or the other then I could assign the better tuner to record my CBS favs and use the other for live TV (which doesn't suffer from picture quality at any time or with any channel).

Thanx.

[gilded07]

The Cox SD cable experiment continues...

Rationale for change: I love Directv but I want three tuners and I don't want to rent another stb from direct for $5 / month.

Problem: lower-numbered channels (locals) are not nearly as sharp as higher-numbered channels. 5 (CBS), 10 (FOX), 12 (NBC), and 15 (ABC) have a poorer PQ than higher channel numbers. Channel 5 (CBS) is particularly bad; so bad that comskip occasionally doesn't mark the comms at all or marks them incorrectly.

I originally thought it was the PVR-500 but recently I set up three different shows to record at the same time. I went back afterwards and looked to see which tuner recorded which show to determine if it was a tuner problem. The irony was that the PVR-150 recording channel 5 (CBS) was the worst PQ leading me to believe that its not a PVR-500 tuner problem. I used the PVR-150 w/ Directv and it worked fine.

Recently, I had the Cox cable guy over and he changed some cables and connectors and wiggled some cat5 and coax cables (an 8 port 10/100 switch is next to the Sage server) and I briefly had a clearer picture on channel 5 but channels 10 and 12 were barely better if better at all. The next day I tuned into channel 5 and it was again suffering poor PQ. I haven't been able to replicate the brief increase in PQ that I had when the cable guy was here. The cable guy tested the signal of both cables (PVR-500 and PVR-150) and they were both fine and when I plug the cable directly into a TV beside the server, the picture on all stations is perfect. So I think the problem is w/ the tuners or Sage.

I've moved a 12db, 50-900mzh coax signal booster around with no improvement. I started out with the booster right where the signal comes into my structured wiring cabinet. I now have it right before the signal goes into the PVR-500. No difference.

I'm getting ready to buy another PVR-150 off ebay or Amazon just to see if there's any improvement. I doubt there will be given my tuner testing already but I can use it if I revert back to Directv (I'm still paying for DTV).

Questions:

1. Any suggestions as to what might be causing my PQ problems w/ low channel numbers?
2. Assuming my cox cable experiment proves unsuccessful, and since I want to use serial tuning and only have one serial port on my server case, does anyone have any experience in converting a USB port to a serial port? Any hardware/software to recommend for this?
3. My server only has two PCI slots and if I go back to Directv, they'll both be taken with PVR-150s. If I break down and rent a 3rd Directv box, can anyone recommend a good USB capture device? I see there are some mentioned as supported by Sage by I'm looking for recommendations.
4. I think my USB ports are USB 2.0. I assume using a USB capture device requires a v2.0 USB port?

As always, thanx much for help.

[Polypro]

Did Hauppauge ever use the Samsung tuner on the PVR150? If they did, I would check which one is on your 150. I had a 500 with the Samsung tuners, and it was bad on the lower channels. The S-Video connection you used with DTV is different than the connection to the Sammy tuner.

P

[Tiki]

Have you tried Andy's advice with the FreqShifter software yet?

It is likely that your capture card just isn't tuning into the right frequency. This software is supposed to let you fine tune individual channels

Incidently, I have 2 PVR-150s and 1 PVR-150MCE. They all give snowy pictures on channels 2-5 (Especially channel 2). For me, signal boosters helped, but didn't completely cure the problem. I didn't try out the FreqShifter application myself because Comcast changed their lineup in my area and now everything above channel 20 is digital and requires a box. So, I just got two STB's from Comcast and disabled channels 2-4 on the last tuner.

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by Polypro

Did Hauppauge ever use the Samsung tuner on the PVR150? If they did, I would check which one is on your 150. I had a 500 with the Samsung tuners, and it was bad on the lower channels. The S-Video connection you used with DTV is different than the connection to the Sammy tuner.

P

You know, I went out of my way to make sure I got the 'good' tuners for the PVR-500; they're the big ones. I don't remember if they're Samsung or Philips but whatever they recommended on the shspvr forum is what I got from ebay.

I've had the 150 since around 2003 (purchased new) and used it w/ analog cable and BeyondTV for three years before switching to Sage w/ Directv in 2007. I've never had problems w/ the 150. I'll take the server down tonite and see what model and revision is on the 150 and report back.

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Have you tried Andy's advice with the FreqShifter software yet?

It is likely that your capture card just isn't tuning into the right frequency. This software is supposed to let you fine tune individual channels

I briefly tried the freqshifter utility but I was too stupid or impatient to figure it out. Maybe I should give it another shot. I think the software is still loaded on the sever...

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by gilded07

I briefly tried the freqshifter utility but I was too stupid or impatient to figure it out. Maybe I should give it another shot. I think the software is still loaded on the sever...

Well, it seems your feedback and help has paid off. Freqshifter apparently was the answer. I'm still crossing my fingers but the PQ has been better every day since I used it.

I called the local CBS affiliate and asked to speak w/ the engineer. He was very patient and gave me the visual carrier frequencies for the local CBS, NBC, and Fox affiliates here in Phoenix.

• CBS - 77.240000
• Fox - 193.250000
• NBC - 205.250000

I got these programmed using freqshifter in time for the Monday night kickoff of my CBS favs. I watched live and checked out the comskip markings afterwards and it was a great picture with the coms marked accurately.

I was commenting the next day to a friend and SageTV Linux user that I wish I would have asked for some other frequencies and he emailed me this listing:

http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html

The CBS frequency on this link was slightly different than what the station engineer gave me but I stuck w/ his (something to do w/ an 'offset') and the picture is fine.

I still have a slight flicker on the text boxes at the bottom of the screen when I'm watching ESPN or Fox News. It is only mildly annoying compared to the PQ problem I was having before freqshifter. Since it seems unrelated to my PQ problem, I'm going to post it in a new thread.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by gilded07

I still have a slight flicker on the text boxes at the bottom of the screen when I'm watching ESPN or Fox News. It is only mildly annoying compared to the PQ problem I was having before freqshifter. Since it seems unrelated to my PQ problem, I'm going to post it in a new thread.

If by "flicker on the text boxes" you mean that the words scrolling by in the news crawlers at the bottom of the screen are stuttering or blurry, there are a couple of possible causes that I can think of:

1. Video Decoder - I always found the default Sage decoder to give choppy / stuttery playback on fast moving text. The NVidia Pure Video decoder does a much better job for me.
2. Recording quality - If you use one of the lower quality encoding levels (lower bit rates) the first place it shows up is with scenes that have a lot of motion (particularly sports, but also in things like the news crawlers).
3. TV - If you have an SD recording that must be up-converted for display on a newer HDTV, something has to fill-in the extra pixels and the results aren't always great. This up-conversion may be done in the PC or it may be done in the TV, depending on how you are connected. If you are using an S-Video or composite connection from your video card to your PC, the signal comes out of your PC at SD resolution and gets up-converted by your TV. If you are using a component output, VGA, DVI, or HDMI your video card could be sending signals to your TV at 720P or 1080i or possibly some other resolution. If your video card is doing the scaling, it pays to have a relatively powerful video card.

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by Tiki

If by "flicker on the text boxes" you mean that the words scrolling by in the news crawlers at the bottom of the screen are stuttering or blurry, there are a couple of possible causes that I can think of:

1. Video Decoder - I always found the default Sage decoder to give choppy / stuttery playback on fast moving text. The NVidia Pure Video decoder does a much better job for me.
2. Recording quality - If you use one of the lower quality encoding levels (lower bit rates) the first place it shows up is with scenes that have a lot of motion (particularly sports, but also in things like the news crawlers).
3. TV - If you have an SD recording that must be up-converted for display on a newer HDTV, something has to fill-in the extra pixels and the results aren't always great. This up-conversion may be done in the PC or it may be done in the TV, depending on how you are connected. If you are using an S-Video or composite connection from your video card to your PC, the signal comes out of your PC at SD resolution and gets up-converted by your TV. If you are using a component output, VGA, DVI, or HDMI your video card could be sending signals to your TV at 720P or 1080i or possibly some other resolution. If your video card is doing the scaling, it pays to have a relatively powerful video card.

Thanx - I'll check recording quality settings. I don't have any Nvidia video cards - can I still use the Nvidia pure video decoder? Is it a free download?

I'm using SD extenders on SD TVs.

The flicker actually happens on any of the imposed text / graphics along the bottom or top of the screen. For example, Fox News often has a red background w/ the Fox logo on the left. The red background has text explaining who's talking or key points the person has made, as if it were put there for a deaf person who couldn't hear what was being said. This entire text area literally flickers every 3-5 seconds.

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by Tiki

If by "flicker on the text boxes" you mean that the words scrolling by in the news crawlers at the bottom of the screen are stuttering or blurry, there are a couple of possible causes that I can think of:


2. Recording quality - If you use one of the lower quality encoding levels (lower bit rates) the first place it shows up is with scenes that have a lot of motion (particularly sports, but also in things like the news crawlers).

For each of my tuners, I increased the quality to 2.4gb / hour and the flicker seems to have gone away.

Now I have the best quality picture using analog cable that I've had since I signed up w/ the cable company.

Thanx for all the feedback!