Taking the next step to media extenders

[raoul]

I am ready to take the next step and add media extenders to my system. I have been running SageTV successfully for the past 8 months or so, but only as a one computer - one TV setup. I need now to add functionality to additional tvs around the house, but am a bit confused about the proper way to do this.

Current Setup: 3.0GHz Dual Core Pentium w 1Gig RAM and 1TByte HD for recordings. Not sure on video card, but it is a basic ATI one that came stock with the system. Currently it is plugged directly into a vizio LCD TV via the RGB connection and has 2 Haug 150 tuners with two satellite inputs and OTA input (no HD).

I just finished the basement and moved the system downstairs, but want to now pipe it up to the new TV in the front room as well as bedroom (so a total of 3 TVs). I am not doing any HD at the moment, as I only get a couple of HD channels OTA and hardly watch them. I might be more interested in HD when the rest of the OTA channels switch, so should I consider HD extenders for the two main TVs? (TV in bedroom is SD only)

My understanding is that I want to get an extender for each TV, even the one closest to the computer. I then have to switch SageTV over to running as a server? Can this be configured this way at this point, or do I have to do a fresh install?

I would then buy some sort of switch (1GByte?) and plug the SageTV server into that, and then run CAT5 from it to all 3 tvs? At each of those I have some sort of media extender that takes the CAT5 cable. What options do I have for these media extenders? Which ones are the best for the money? I assume I can buy these media extenders with a client license?

I am sure I will have other questions as I get going, but wanted to get the basics out so I can start ordering some equipment and get things moving.

thanks

-R

[Opus4]

Appendix M of the SageTV PDF covers how to add an extender to your system, including enabling the server so that clients & extenders can connect.

Yes, the extenders would connect via your network.

I suggest you use the HD100 extender -- you'll be set for future HD use and they work for SD output too, with a decoder chip that provides better output than the MVP. The HD100 can play more media types natively, while the MVP will have to use the server's cpu to transcode almost everything that isn't MPEG3 or MP3.

- Andy

[raoul]

Thanks Andy for the information. I read appendix M of the manual and think I understand how to enable the server.

The HD100's look very nice, but I am not sure if I can buy 3 of them ($200 each) plus a network switch all at the same time.

Is there a real problem with installing one HD100 upstairs, and then leaving the computer as a SageTV box on my basement tv? I realize my vernacular isn't correct, but it would be a server to the HD100 upstairs, but my tv downstairs would be directly plugged into it as a "client". I can mirror the output via S-video to RF modulator and go to my bedroom tv. Would it just tax this machine too much?

The WAF rating is pretty high right now with Sage, but not sure if I am going to be able to get another $700 or so at one time to take it to the next step.

-R

[Brent]

raoul, that should work find as long as your server (box downstairs and attached to your tv downstairs) is attached to the same network as your HD100 upstairs.

[thomaszoo]

I agree that you should go the HD100 route. I will also add that adding extenders is very easy. Once the server is set up the hardest work is behind you; all you need to do is enable the server. Then the hardest part is typing in the license numbers.

Wayne

[Fuzzy]

To add a bit, i would recommend going HD100 if you have an HDTV. Not sure I wouldn't waste the money in, say, a bedroom, if you don't plan on using an HDTV in there for a while. For you, I'd recommend an HD100 for the front room tv, an MVP for the bedroom, and use the Sage computer to drive the basement TV. This will give you HD for the basement and the front room, and save you money on hardware AND liscenses.

[raoul]

Thanks for the great tips. I think I will get an HD100 for the upstairs, and maybe start off with an MVP for the bedroom. When I do upgrade it to a HD tv, I can probably use the MVP in the kitchen or somewhere. I now am just deciding about the HD100 for the basement, or just attach the tv to the server directly.

If I start to record in HD, I assume those recordings can be watched via the MVP (SD obviously) but it is going to tax the server to transcode them for me?

Also, I am fairly technical with a given computer and hardware, but I don't know anything about setting up a home network. Is there anything special about the network switch I am looking for? I know it has to be a 1GByte Switch, but anything else? Can anyone recommend a good one for a good price?

thanks again. Everything is very helpful and I think I might be able to order the stuff today.

-R

[Brent]

Originally Posted by raoul

If I start to record in HD, I assume those recordings can be watched via the MVP (SD obviously) but it is going to tax the server to transcode them for me?

Yes, the transcoding of HD content to the MVP does put a bit of a drain on the server PC's processor. It works fairly well, but lesser processors can have trouble with the transcoding. I've been happy with my MVP's (down to one now that I sold one last week), but one thing to know is that the MVP cannot view h.264 content output by the Hauppauge HD-PVR's if you plan to use one of those.

[raoul]

Well, I don't have any HD sources at the moment (except for the couple of OTA channels). I just can't pay DTV their monthly fee for HD channels. I don't mind paying for the equipment, but these monthly fees is what drove me to Sage in the first place over Tivo. Obviously it is not a wise decision financially, but I really despise these monthly fees.

Since I don't have any HD sources, I don't anticipate using one of the HD-PVRs at the moment. If I do, then I will have to just upgrade the MVP at that point.

As far as switches goes, on NewEgg there is a D-Link DGS-2208 10/100/1000Mbps 8-Port Desktop Green Ethernet Switch 8 x RJ45 8K MAC Address Table 144KB per Device Packet Buffer Memory Buffer Memo for $50 (before $10 rebate). Is that sufficient?

-R

[Brent]

I use this one from Netgear:
NetGear GS105 which is $40 after rebate at NewEgg
The GS108 is $55 after rebate at NewEgg and has more ports (8 ports) if you need a little more.





The switch you mentioned should work fine as well though. Do you have a router also ?

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by raoul

I know it has to be a 1GByte Switch, but anything else?

It doesn't have to be a 1GB switch. You can use something as simple and inexpensive as this. http://www.officedepot.com/a/product...hernet-Switch/

(I know it's blasphemy in a tech-heavy forum like this, but hey, it's true...)

[Brent]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

It doesn't have to be a 1GB switch. You can use something as simple and inexpensive as this. http://www.officedepot.com/a/product...hernet-Switch/

(I know it's blasphemy in a tech-heavy forum like this, but hey, it's true...)

True. The only reason I use Gigabit is for other devices I have now and tend to add in the future that support gigabit. Cost isn't much more and it makes things more future proof. But yeah, that's a geek (me) talking....

[paulbeers]

I use a 26 port hub that has 24 ports at 10/100mbit and 2 GB ports. My servers are on the GB ports and all clients are on the 10/100mbit ports....of course I have over 30 ethernet drops in my house so even with a 24 port hub not all of them active!

[raoul]

Thanks again for everyone's input. Like I said, I am fairly technically sound on hardware and an individual computer or programming, but I don't know the first thing about setting up a network.

I do not have a router. Do I need one? I figured I would only need that for an internet connection and the switch would suffice for a truly local home network. Currently, I am not directly connected to the internet at home. I connect via WiFi to my neighbor only to download the guide for my Sage machine (Yes, he knows... he gave me the WAP password to do this). I have been thinking recently about buying my own, but I live in a rural area and it isn't too cheap. I think cable internet is going to be my best bet when I go down this road.

That being said, do I need to buy anything besides the switch or am I all set?

-R

[mikehaney]

Just a comment on the price of the extenders -

I am setting up a similar system right now, and I built PC clients for each TV I was adding to my media setup. Initially I was going to use MythTV and run the clients diskless, so I bought some Shuttle KPC barebone systems ($100 each), Celeron 430 CPUs ($45 each) and since the Shuttles don't have TV out, I also bought some PCI NVidia 6200 video cards ($40 each). So I'm already at $185/machine.

Then I had a lot of problems with MythTV, so I switched to Media Portal and of course needed harddrives and an OS for each machine, so there's another $150 each. Then after struggling with MPs stability, I finally tried Sage this week and I'm sold on it's stability and useability.

So I'm out over $300/machine and although they will work fine with Sage with the SDTV's they are hooked up to now, it's sickening knowing I could have had hassle-free units that will support HD in the future for much less.

The point is, the HD extenders are a bargain at $200. If you can't get approval for $200 per TV (and I know how important spousal approval can be), then it's just not realistic to expect to expand your system to other rooms at this time, because you certainly can't do it any cheaper than that.

[mikehaney]

Originally Posted by raoul

As far as switches goes, on NewEgg there is a D-Link DGS-2208 10/100/1000Mbps 8-Port Desktop Green Ethernet Switch 8 x RJ45 8K MAC Address Table 144KB per Device Packet Buffer Memory Buffer Memo for $50 (before $10 rebate). Is that sufficient?
-R

That is the exact switch I am using, and it works great. Picked it up at Fry's for $40 on sale a few weeks ago.

[raoul]

Well... I don't want to share what I had to promise for Spousal Approval, but I ended up going in full and ordering 3 HD100s and the D-Link Switch. I think I ordered all the cables I need from monoprice.com, so now I am just eagerly awaiting the arrival of everything and then I get to install it. Hopefully I didn't forget anything.... thanks for everyone's help. I will report back once I have it operational (or earlier if I can't make it operational...)

-R

[myoung84]

Sorry to thread jack, but I am moving soon and will be doing about this same thing. I have 1 HDX now and will probably order another. My question is, I have a 4 port wireless router that connects to my cable modem. Do I just run a cable out from the router to the switch? My current router is full with 3 pc's and my HDX. This would leave me 3 ports on the 4 port router and 4 ports on the 5 port switch, correct?

[CollinR]

yes

[raoul]

Ok, well I decided to order 3 HD100s and they all arrived on Friday, so I worked on setting them up Friday night and thought I would continue this post with what I saw. Again, I know just enough about networking to get myself in trouble.

I installed the switch and activated the Sage Server as detailed in Appendix M of the manual (thanks Andy). That couldn't have been easier. The first problem I located was a bad ethernet cable that SageTV supplied, but that didn't take me too long to isolate and remove. I am using XP Home and had no local network installed (and no router). I was hoping that the XP machine would automatically act as a DHCP server and it would all just take off, but that didn't happen. Finally, I figured I would just go through the local network wizard and create a windows network for file and printer sharing. I went ahead and just made up an IP for that machine (192.168.0.1).

I then went into the setup menu on the HD100 and adjusted the network settings and made up a static IP for the box (192.168.0.XX) and saved the settings. It still didn't work, but I noticed that it really wasn't searching for a sage server on the network again with the new static IP. What I noticed (and confirmed with all three boxes) is that I had to enter a static IP, then click the DHCP setting and have it fail to connect to a DHCP server, and then click it back to the static IP before it would actually look for a Sage server again. In this method, it found the server and started just working like magic.

After playing around with it for a bit (and being quite impressed), I went ahead and added the other 2 in the same manner. The third one locked up on me after finding the server in the starting up screen, and after I rebooted it, would only come to a blank screen each time (even after hard resetting the HD unit back to default). I finally had to reboot my server and then it worked. Essentially, getting the units up and running couldn't have been much easier.

What I have noticed so far is that with one unit on the network, the time response is pretty good. Not as nice as it was with just my computer running the sage gui directly... a bit laggy when cruising through the guide or my music. However, it is completely usable.

However, when I added all three on the network, I started to see some serious latency issues, to the point where it is almost unbearable. Interestingly, it stayed the same if I went and put the other two HD100 boxes to sleep (power button on the remote). The third one then started getting really unresponsive, and so I put it to sleep and then tried to turn it back on and see if it got better. All I would get was a blank screen and couldn't get either of the other two to reconnect again as well. I finally closed the Sage GUI on the server and restarted just the GUI, and then I could connect again and it seemed responsive (only reconnected one HD100 so far).

I am not sure why it went unresponsive as my server CPU load was next to 0 and there was not any network traffic. To be fair, however, I must point out that I have not upgraded my firmware on any of the boxes. My internet connection at home is currently down, so they are running with what they came with. Is it possible for me to download the latest firmware and put it on a CD to take home and upgrade? How would one go about doing that? I am unsure how to get back to the setup menu on the HD100 without yanking the ethernet cable. Also, I am running still SageTV 6.3.6 and haven't upgraded to the latest version which may fix this as well.

I noticed on one of the units when I would play back a Sage recording that I would get an increasing lip sync problem. Watching livetv didn't seem to display that, but I think that will also be fixed up updating the firmware.

All-in-all, I am not out of the woods yet, but everything is looking quite positive and I am sure there is a way to fix the slight issues that I have. Do I need to add a router to my network to gain DHCP capabilities, or would that not really make a difference?

thanks for the help and any input on what I am seeing or what I should do next.

-R