R5000(VIP211) for DISH and SageTV

[OldPCGUY]

Does anybody use the R5000(VIP211) for DISH and SageTV?

I would like to know the following

1. How Long Have you been using it
2. Do all the Video and Audio play back well for HD channels? If not what kind of issues have you seen?
3. Does the USB interface connected to the VIP211 ever get lost? How Often?
4. Do you depend on the USB interface to the R5000 for channel changes or do you use a USB UIRT to blast the Channel on the R5000? If so why?
5. Can you tell me what your Settings are for Audio/Video Renderer/Decoder.

I have an HD-PVR right now but I cannot get good AC3 5.1 audio. I get alot of sound jitter. Video looks great.

Kind Regards,

Tony

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by OldPCGUY

Does anybody use the R5000(VIP211) for DISH and SageTV?

I would like to know the following

1. How Long Have you been using it

Something like 6 months...

2. Do all the Video and Audio play back well for HD channels? If not what kind of issues have you seen?

Generally they play back well. I have a couple of infrequent recurring problems:
* One looks like low signal on some of the channels (blocky picture for a second, probably related to the crappy signal on sat 129).
* Another looks more like a generic Sage recording issue - severe skips in the recorded video. Seems to occur late at night, around when the EPG data is updated and when WHS fires-off it's backup. It's better since I moved the backups to later, but I'm still seeing it infrequently in SNL and Letterman.
* The last seems like it could be R5000 related, or at least stream related. There will be a point in the recording where skipping forward will take you back a certain ammount, and sometimes if you let it play the video will go funky (fast-forward jumpy) Doesn't happen enough to tick me off enough to investigate more.

Audio and video are in sync, and no stutters during playback. There's a micro-stutter that I can only see on the CNNHD ticker (and the wife has never noticed it so don't say anything).

3. Does the USB interface connected to the VIP211 ever get lost? How Often?

Never had that happen.

4. Do you depend on the USB interface to the R5000 for channel changes or do you use a USB UIRT to blast the Channel on the R5000? If so why?

I use the USB interface, and didn't realize you could even try to use UIRT with it. I also don't know why you would...

5. Can you tell me what your Settings are for Audio/Video Renderer/Decoder.

I use the HD extender, not the PC client so I can't help with that...


Cheers...

[redondo_se]

Originally Posted by OldPCGUY

1. How Long Have you been using it

1 year

2. Do all the Video and Audio play back well for HD channels? If not what kind of issues have you seen?

Audio and video sync have never been an issue for me, but I've had a hell of a time trying to get a great picture with H.264 channels. My clients are all running Vista. I get the sharpest picture with CoreAVC 1.7 (note that 1.8 crashes), but I get picture stutter in horizontal pans and in news tickers such as CNN-HD and CNBC-HD. I just saw that CoreAVC now has a 1.8.5 update, I haven't tried that yet.

I'm now using Arcsoft's video decoder for H.264. The picture is more stable but also more "blurry" and/or "grainy." The picture is still good, but not as sharp as with CoreAVC. Arcsoft does it's own internal deinterlacing, you can tell by looking at the input/output of the filter properties in graph edit. Arcsoft outputs "Frames" (i.e. deinterlaced) and the VMR9 renderer does not do any deinterlacing. You can also see this in the SageTV log, deinterlacing will be set to something like "00000-00000...". It's possible that Arcsoft has a stable image because it's using bob deinterlacing, i.e. you loose half the resolution.

The best picture that I've seen with H.264 streams from Dish is with Cyberlink's H.264 decoder and EVR with DXVA. However, SageTV doesn't yet support EVR, and with VMR9, it's a terrible mess. If you are reading this and haven't already done so, please Let Sage know you want EVR support.

3. Does the USB interface connected to the VIP211 ever get lost? How Often?

Not that I'm aware of. If it does, it recovers the connection on it's own. I think I've had a couple of problems getting things connected back up after a power failure, i.e. requiring a reboot of my SageTV server, or at least restarting the R5000 software, but it's been pretty smooth otherwise.

4. Do you depend on the USB interface to the R5000 for channel changes or do you use a USB UIRT to blast the Channel on the R5000? If so why?

Absolutely! The USB connection handles channel changes. No reason to use IR.

5. Can you tell me what your Settings are for Audio/Video Renderer/Decoder.

I have an HD-PVR right now but I cannot get good AC3 5.1 audio. I get alot of sound jitter. Video looks great.

Kind Regards,

Tony

AC3Filter or FFDSHOW for audio. I like FFDSHOW because I modded the source to "copy" channels to unused channels in my 7.1 sound system. Howerver, I've been trying out AC3Filter lately in attempt to get the beta demux working. But the beta demux isn't really working yet, so it's a wash. Besides, Donkey is working on getting the beta demux working with FFDSHOW audio.

As mentioned above, I'm currently using Arcsoft for H.264 from Dish. I'll hopefully be using Cyberlink when SageTV adds EVR support.

I'm currently using Cyberlink for SD and HD mpeg-2 from OTA and Dish.

[redondo_se]

Originally Posted by Slipshod

* Another looks more like a generic Sage recording issue - severe skips in the recorded video. Seems to occur late at night, around when the EPG data is updated and when WHS fires-off it's backup. It's better since I moved the backups to later, but I'm still seeing it infrequently in SNL and Letterman.
* The last seems like it could be R5000 related, or at least stream related. There will be a point in the recording where skipping forward will take you back a certain ammount, and sometimes if you let it play the video will go funky (fast-forward jumpy) Doesn't happen enough to tick me off enough to investigate more.

Slipshod,

I've been having problems with skips in my recordings also, but from my HDHomerun OTA mpeg-2 recordings. I have a single file on disk, but the recording has a "gliltch" in it. It's definitely the recording because the playback is identical using any media player. There is actually some video recorded in the space that it skips over which I can see by manually moving the timeline in some players. Maybe it has something to do with P-frames (I-frames) or whatever that's called in mpeg-2.

I guess it could be an OTA signal issue, but my signal is pretty strong and I'm used to seing OTA signal loss as pixelation/blocking.

I've also been having weird issues with skipping forward and back lately. I think more so with OTA mpeg-2 than Dish H.264, but we've probably been watching more OTA lately so it's hard to say. I'm hoping Donkey will get the beta demux working well soon to get rid of that problem.

[OldPCGUY]

Both your posts have been very helpful and the key conclusions I can make are:

1. DISH VIP211 with USB does not crash and the USB connection is very reliable.

2. H.264 Playback with WinXP 32 SP3 and SageTV is a questionmark but audio extraction should be fine since I have 8 different audio encoders.
I may have to buy Arcsoft to get their great flow through charts.

3. It would be great if I could get a sample H.264 HD capture to try playing back. Just a 5 minute capture would be all I needed. I asked Nextcom but they only have SD captures from an Old Dish 6000 from a few years ago before Dish was braodcasting H.264. Not very helpful.

Kind Regards

[OldPCGUY]

Originally Posted by redondo_se

1 year

The best picture that I've seen with H.264 streams from Dish is with Cyberlink's H.264 decoder and EVR with DXVA. However, SageTV doesn't yet support EVR, and with VMR9, it's a terrible mess. If you are reading this and haven't already done so, please Let Sage know you want EVR support.


I'm currently using Cyberlink for SD and HD mpeg-2 from OTA and Dish.

I have already put a post into the EVR link. I basically want them to have HD playback fixed. What they support or how they do it is not my concern.
If EVR will fix it in both XP and Vista then fine. If they have another solution with a Sage Renderer that gets the job done in XP and Vista then that would be fine also.

[redondo_se]

The link below provides a couple samples. The file named "r500Test.mpeg" was provided by "DualQuad." It's about 50 seconds and has a 6 channel audio. I captured the file named "h264_sage_sample.mpg" from CNBC-HD. It's 43 seconds and has a news ticker at the bottom that demonstrates the problems you run into with H.264 decoding. It's AC3 audio but only 2 channels.

http://cid-bc845d43f8b3e65f.skydrive...se.aspx/SageTV

I don't have any 5 minute samples and those would be about 200 MB. Hopefully those two clips will do.

[OldPCGUY]

Many Thanks

If we ever meet then I owe you a beer.

Kind Regards,

Tony

[stanger89]

I've got a tangential question, buying new, is an R5000 worth $100-200 over the HD PVR? Note that I've got an HD PVR already, and it's working quite well for me.

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I've got a tangential question, buying new, is an R5000 worth $100-200 over the HD PVR? Note that I've got an HD PVR already, and it's working quite well for me.

If you're already happy with the HD-PVR I'm not sure why you'd switch...

I'd say it depends on what you are looking for and what your provider is. I think it is worth it if you are going to use Dish Network, but I would probably stick with the HD-PVR if I was going to use DirectTV. Dish doesn't have "Native Resolution Passthrough", so all of your recordings are scaled to one resolution and then captured by the HD-PVR. ALL of them, SD included. Dish also doesn't have serial port control, so you have to use the IR blaster with the HD-PVR.

I like getting the native stream because the file-sizes are smaller and the video quality is better (in theory). You also only see the video (no STB overlay info), which is both good and bad.

No audio channels kind of sucks, but not enough to really factor into my choice.

[Fluffdaddy]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I've got a tangential question, buying new, is an R5000 worth $100-200 over the HD PVR? Note that I've got an HD PVR already, and it's working quite well for me.

I have both. The R5000 video PQ is a little better but not $300 better.

I do like the R5000 channel changing reliability, but there again not 300 bucks worth.

Same price or $100 apart I would go with the R5000 everytime.


But:
Newegg Hauppauge HD PVR sale...........$200.00 Shipped

R5000-HD DVR Modification for ViP 211.........$475.00

R5000 Software to use two or more Mod Boxes $99.95


Sorry..........Can't do it

[jerryt]

I did the R5000 "do it yourself" kit and install all the components in it's own separate box with a DB9 cable to whatever receiver I want to use it with.

350.00 DIY kit
49.00 Single license for R5000 to Sage. (Upgradeable for another 50.00 to multiple)
399.00

Still 200.00 more than my HD-PVR. But then my HD-PVR is not working very well...........

[Fluffdaddy]

1)How difficult was the DIY kit?

2)(Upgradeable for another 50.00 to multiple): Did not know this. This info is no where on their web page.


thx

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Fluffdaddy

I have both. The R5000 video PQ is a little better but not $300 better.

I do like the R5000 channel changing reliability, but there again not 300 bucks worth.

Same price or $100 apart I would go with the R5000 everytime.


But:
Newegg Hauppauge HD PVR sale...........$200.00 Shipped

R5000-HD DVR Modification for ViP 211.........$475.00

R5000 Software to use two or more Mod Boxes $99.95


Sorry..........Can't do it

Yeah, being that it's quite rare that I record anything in SD, or at least that I rarely record anything on an "SD channel", I've been thinking it's time to get the second HD reciever setup. Nextcomm has a "sale" on premodded boxes, $600, my alternative is to buy an IRD and a HD PVR. That's $150-200 depending on how the math works out. But good point about the software, forgot about the software "tax" for the R5000 sage software.

Guess that brings up another question, assuming I don't want to get involved in a service contract, what's the best/cheapest/easiest way to get another IRD from Dish? Buy one outright, call them up?

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by Fluffdaddy

1)How difficult was the DIY kit?

2)(Upgradeable for another 50.00 to multiple): Did not know this. This info is no where on their web page.


thx

1) Surface mount component. You need some experience.
2) Customer support assured me by email.

[redondo_se]

FYI, Nextcom is having a sale right now:

Nextcom Fall Sale

Fall Specials and Discounts:
(until 11/30/2008 or while supplies last. subject to early termination)

• Buy 1 get 50% off a second unit! Applies to most DVR modifications and DIY kits (see quantity discount area of item description).
• Free return shipping
• DVR software Sale (purchasers of a new DVR modification or DIY kit receive a coupon good for $49.95 off all DVR software).

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Fluffdaddy

1)How difficult was the DIY kit?

2)(Upgradeable for another 50.00 to multiple): Did not know this. This info is no where on their web page.


thx

Definitely upgradable for $50. I emailed and asked and they said yes and told me to purchase the sage version again and they would send the multiple instance keys. Kind of a manual process since it is not an option on the web page, but it worked well enough.

[sic0048]

Originally Posted by redondo_se

FYI, Nextcom is having a sale right now:

Nextcom Fall Sale

Fall Specials and Discounts:
(until 11/30/2008 or while supplies last. subject to early termination)

• Buy 1 get 50% off a second unit! Applies to most DVR modifications and DIY kits (see quantity discount area of item description).
• Free return shipping
• DVR software Sale (purchasers of a new DVR modification or DIY kit receive a coupon good for $49.95 off all DVR software).

Well, with those sales prices, if I was in the market for two units, I'd probably pick up to of the DIY R5000 kits instead of two HD-PVRs.

Two HD-PVRs = $400
Two R5000 kits = $350 for 1st + 175 for 2nd + $100 for software - $50 coupon = $575

That works out to be approx $90 more per unit. But I have a working HD-PVR (although no 5.1 sound and slow channel changes), so I guess I don't have to worry about making this decision.

EDIT - even better would be if they would give you 50% off the Qty Discount price which is $262.50 for 2 units or more on the DIY kits. Then it would be $262.50 + 131.00 +100 - 50 = $443.50 for two units. That would definitely make the R5000 mod a better option IMHO, but I'm sure the Qty Discount price already reflects the current sale (at least the math adds up to indicate that it is already included).

[DualQuad]

I have the fortune of having a configuration sporting an r5000 and 2 HDPVRs.

It going on 2 and half years since I got an R5000, I jumped on board as soon as SageTV had R5000 support. During this period, I had a VIP211 die and needed to swap R5000 between receivers. On occasion I have had my USB interface for the r5000 stop responding and I have had to power cycle the vip211. I havent kept accurate records, but I think that the frequency has been much less with the "new" VIP211. Perhaps the USB on the motherboard is crap and I am using a different port, maybe the original install had a poor ground, I really cant tell ya why there appears to be a difference.

One R5000 PRO that I havent seen mentioned is that the R5000 captures the transmitted stream and this stream at times is at a size that is much less than the HDPVR. Some of this can be due to DISH's goofy sizing of some channels 1440x1080 (that kind of thing). I see this often with capturing the kids cartoons, even though they are SD, the box connected to the HDPVR is going to scale/upconvert the content to 1080i/720p and then have the HDPVR pack it away at whatever bitrate you choose, the R5000 just snarfs down whatever it started with.

One R5000 Con -- channel changing speed. Its gotten better over the years, but I much rather watching "Live" tv over the HDPVR, seems snappier for channel changes.

One HDPVR CON -- I have had four in my possession and two have died/experienced issues. The first was from the early adopters batch, it had problems from day one. The second to have issues was actually the warranty replacement for the first. The latest one, purchased at Fry's yesterday, is the only one to "light up" the ring around the top when recording. Quality Control seems to be lacking or the design is still evolving.

So far, in comparison, the R5000 has been trouble free for recording. I know that I seldom have concerns about it changing channels, crapping out after 5 minutes of capture or having weird sync issues.

Now that I am running everything from extenders playback is a non-issue. The early attempts at getting H264 to work right sent me down a path of purchasing "capable" video cards and exploring questionable codec packs. I will say that once I had everything working, I feel that playback from the PC was far better than from the extender for some content (mostly SD).

Its interesting that you mention poor audio. I have a friend nearby who was unable to get satisfactory capture of optical audio with the HDPVR. He set everything back to stereo until he can come up with a solution. I was going to loan him my "standby" HDPVR to troubleshoot, but it had to come into service as my second HDPVR died.

DQ

[OldPCGUY]

Originally Posted by DualQuad

Now that I am running everything from extenders playback is a non-issue. The early attempts at getting H264 to work right sent me down a path of purchasing "capable" video cards and exploring questionable codec packs. I will say that once I had everything working, I feel that playback from the PC was far better than from the extender for some content (mostly SD).


DQ

Nice post what Video settings worked best for your HTPC (ie Video Renderer and Video PLayback)

Since I can't get the 5.1 Audio working right with the HD-PVR I am considering the much higher cost of a VIP211. Your post was pretty helpful in that it seems like a very reliable option you can depend on.

The posts in this particular forum have been extremely helpful